RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all

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sirsholly -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:17:10 AM)
quote: But by the same token, what about people who aren't "special" that have gone through a similar amount of adversity? What makes one person who was molested as a kid brave for having lived through it, and another a fucking whiner who's using it as an excuse for his failure, assuming neither of them talk about it more than the other? Belief in themselves? The survivor of abuse knows they are so much more then a victim and will not permit the abuse to take over. Breaking out of the "victim" mentality can be frightening, painful, etc., but they are worth the effort and they know it. The tiny steps they take to get themselves out of that role are a confidence builder in and of themselves.

fadedshadow -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:17:48 AM)
my gut instinct merely seeks what i desire most, as for why i don't know. and i think it's trustworthy because it hasn't let me down yet. if it doesn't help you at all then i'm not sure what to say

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:20:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly The survivor of abuse knows they are so much more then a victim and will not permit the abuse to take over. Breaking out of the "victim" mentality can be frightening, painful, etc., but they are worth the effort and they know it. The tiny steps they take to get themselves out of that role are a confidence builder in and of themselves. But what makes someone worthy of breaking the victim mentality? I mean, just because I stand up and say "I won't be a victim anymore!", doesn't mean I'm going to stop being victimized, and doesn't mean I'm not going to be laughed at for the pathetic, self-deluded little shit that I am. It seems like, in American culture at least, we believe that the purpose of adversity is to seperate the "men from the boys". It's sink or swim, you know - throw trauma at someone, and if they manage to rise above it, they're special. So what do you do if you find out you couldn't rise above it?

heartfeltsub -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:22:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly perhaps this is your perception, as opposed to the actual reality? You seem to have the impression that certain people are born with the proverbial silver spoon. I agree to an extent that socioeconomic factors, environment and genetics do play a part in ones chances for success...but it is simply a part...not the whole by any means. Did it ever occur to you that "specialness" in the product of adversity? What you see as a golden child is perhaps one who walked through hell, had the courage to keep on going, and now has the confidence that burned feet has given them. But by the same token, what about people who aren't "special" that have gone through a similar amount of adversity? What makes one person who was molested as a kid brave for having lived through it, and another a fucking whiner who's using it as an excuse for his failure, assuming neither of them talk about it more than the other? i know that you addressed this to someone else, but i would really like to answer it because i have in fact been sexually molested as a kid, as well as have lived through physical, emotional, mental and verbal abuse. a.) i don't allow myself to remain a victim of what was done to be by others. When i see areas of my life, actions, reactions that have their root in what happened in my childhood, i do whatever work is necessary to get free of those wounds so that they don't continue to have a hold on me. Because you are currently talking with someone who identifies as a Christian, part of the strength to do that, as well as part of my knowledge that i have a lot to offer comes from there. That did not mean that i didn't struggle with years of resentment and hatred of God for allowing the crap that i lived through in my childhood. But i worked on it and worked on it until i came to the state of wholeness that i am in today. Has it all healed, hell no, but it is verry much improved and i am not walking around in life shackled to a past that makes me "feel" like a victim. i am NOT a victim, i am surviving triumphantly. And that is the whole difference between someone who can talk about his or her past and be seen as brave and one who is classified as whining (hate that term), it is how that person sees what was done to them, how they have come to terms with it. It makes all the difference in how their talking about it is perceived by others.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:23:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: But by the same token, what about people who aren't "special" that have gone through a similar amount of adversity? What makes one person who was molested as a kid brave for having lived through it, and another a fucking whiner who's using it as an excuse for his failure, assuming neither of them talk about it more than the other? Belief in themselves? The survivor of abuse knows they are so much more then a victim and will not permit the abuse to take over. Breaking out of the "victim" mentality can be frightening, painful, etc., but they are worth the effort and they know it. The tiny steps they take to get themselves out of that role are a confidence builder in and of themselves. exactly, been there, done that, proudly wear the t-shirt.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:26:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub a.) i don't allow myself to remain a victim of what was done to be by others. When i see areas of my life, actions, reactions that have their root in what happened in my childhood, i do whatever work is necessary to get free of those wounds so that they don't continue to have a hold on me. But what makes that your choice to make? quote: Because you are currently talking with someone who identifies as a Christian, part of the strength to do that, as well as part of my knowledge that i have a lot to offer comes from there. That did not mean that i didn't struggle with years of resentment and hatred of God for allowing the crap that i lived through in my childhood. But i worked on it and worked on it until i came to the state of wholeness that i am in today. Has it all healed, hell no, but it is verry much improved and i am not walking around in life shackled to a past that makes me "feel" like a victim. i am NOT a victim, i am surviving triumphantly. Ah. See, as a Calvinist Christian myself, I believe rather firmly that I am not one of the elect. God has not chosen me for salvation, and nothing that I can do can change that. quote: And that is the whole difference between someone who can talk about his or her past and be seen as brave and one who is classified as whining (hate that term), it is how that person sees what was done to them, how they have come to terms with it. It makes all the difference in how their talking about it is perceived by others. Okay, so how do you "decide" how to see something differently then the way you already see it?

heartfeltsub -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:30:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub i couldn't disagree with that more, it is not a matter of try (man i'm going to sound like Yoda) but rather a matter of actually belief. Ok, awesome. So how does one believe in themselves? If someone tries to believe in themselves, and fails to do so, what then? quote: i believe in my abilities and what i have to offer regardless of how it is received by a person i am offering it to. i am by nature an extrovert which means i pull a lot of strength from those around me. i have had to learn to pull that strength, that belief from inside of myself and not base my perceptions of who i am and what i have to offer from the reactions of others. Those who ultimately succeed in this world, usually do so after being knocked down time and again but pull themselves back up because they refuse to be beaten down because internally they KNOW that they are more than that. And what should those who know they AREN'T more than that, do with themselves? Please understand i am not in any way trying to say anything that is too personal, so if you would prefer for me to address this offline, i am more than glad to do so. Speaking for myself, i used to be INCREDIBLY insecure and felt IMMENSELY unworthy of any good thing. That was as a result of a very destructive childhood that left me questioning my worth as a human being at all. i had very little value to the two people that were most supposed to teach me that i had value or worth and that were my parents. Because of all the crap that i lived through, i was left with huge, gaping holes of doubt and self loathing that i can not even begin to describe here. i would literally beat my fists against my head calling myself all kinds of names because i hated who and what i was so much. Eventually however, i started to work through my childhood, the results of what was done to me, to deal with how those actions were affecting who i was and how i saw myself to that day. And as i dealt with those things, my perception of myself started to change. People used to tell me i was smart or whatever and i wouldn't believe them because i didn't feel that way about myself, so i just knew they were lying. What i had to learn, was how i saw myself was the lie based on the misinformation drummed into me by my parents. i don't know if any of that helps but i hope it does.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:33:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly The survivor of abuse knows they are so much more then a victim and will not permit the abuse to take over. Breaking out of the "victim" mentality can be frightening, painful, etc., but they are worth the effort and they know it. The tiny steps they take to get themselves out of that role are a confidence builder in and of themselves. But what makes someone worthy of breaking the victim mentality? I mean, just because I stand up and say "I won't be a victim anymore!", doesn't mean I'm going to stop being victimized, and doesn't mean I'm not going to be laughed at for the pathetic, self-deluded little shit that I am. It seems like, in American culture at least, we believe that the purpose of adversity is to seperate the "men from the boys". It's sink or swim, you know - throw trauma at someone, and if they manage to rise above it, they're special. So what do you do if you find out you couldn't rise above it? i know this may sound trite, i do not mean it to be, it is really just a statement of truth. Until it is real in you, it won't be real for anyone else. And if you are still standing after a trauma, or even just holding on by the skin of your teeth, they have survived it. Hope that makes sense.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:35:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub i know this may sound trite, i do not mean it to be, it is really just a statement of truth. Until it is real in you, it won't be real for anyone else. And if you are still standing after a trauma, or even just holding on by the skin of your teeth, they have survived it. Hope that makes sense. Not really. You can break a horse and it'll still stand, but its spirit will be gone.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:39:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub a.) i don't allow myself to remain a victim of what was done to be by others. When i see areas of my life, actions, reactions that have their root in what happened in my childhood, i do whatever work is necessary to get free of those wounds so that they don't continue to have a hold on me. But what makes that your choice to make? quote: Because you are currently talking with someone who identifies as a Christian, part of the strength to do that, as well as part of my knowledge that i have a lot to offer comes from there. That did not mean that i didn't struggle with years of resentment and hatred of God for allowing the crap that i lived through in my childhood. But i worked on it and worked on it until i came to the state of wholeness that i am in today. Has it all healed, hell no, but it is verry much improved and i am not walking around in life shackled to a past that makes me "feel" like a victim. i am NOT a victim, i am surviving triumphantly. Ah. See, as a Calvinist Christian myself, I believe rather firmly that I am not one of the elect. God has not chosen me for salvation, and nothing that I can do can change that. quote: And that is the whole difference between someone who can talk about his or her past and be seen as brave and one who is classified as whining (hate that term), it is how that person sees what was done to them, how they have come to terms with it. It makes all the difference in how their talking about it is perceived by others. Okay, so how do you "decide" how to see something differently then the way you already see it? How do you know that or are you just assuming that based on the events of your life? Because the Bible i read says God is not willing for any to perish, that He calls all to salvation and it is that person's choice (which yes God knows what that choice will be) that decides whether or not a person is saved. And to answer your other question on how did i "decide" to see something differently than the way i already and in my case had always seen it, it had to do with actually believing God when He said that He loved me just as i was and He called me worthy and to believe otherwise was to call Him a liar and who was i to do that. That was my answer, i don't know if that would work for you. i had to decide to believe what He said about me and my worth and allow that to become more real to me than the "truths" that my parents had taught me. *edited because i can't stinking type this morning

heartfeltsub -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:41:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub i know this may sound trite, i do not mean it to be, it is really just a statement of truth. Until it is real in you, it won't be real for anyone else. And if you are still standing after a trauma, or even just holding on by the skin of your teeth, they have survived it. Hope that makes sense. Not really. You can break a horse and it'll still stand, but its spirit will be gone. If your spirit were entirely broken, this line of questions would not be here. And you are more than a horse. The people i have met whose spirits are entirely broken, never seem to look up, never seem to even strive for more than they currently have. That is not what this thread sounds like. This thread and please forgive me for being intrusive, sounds like someone on the verge of changing his current "reality" and someone wanting more that he currently has. i realize that above statement is way to personal, but that is what i am "hearing" from your words. *edited to add a thought

sirsholly -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:48:27 AM)
Ialdabaoth...let me tell you something and i hope to hell it comes out right. I have been described as one of the "special" people you describe, by a few(not many). Now please...i am not bragging, in fact just the opposite. I am about to slam myself here. The few times i was told i was special (in terms other than that word, btw) i was floored...and i mean floored!! What was going through my head was "Holy shit...if you could see what is on the inside, you would never say that!! If you could see the past, the fear, the half hearted suicide attempts (i failed at those, btw) the pain, the anger.....blahblah." They did not see those things, they saw the results. And those results were born out of weakness. The person that they saw as confident was a creation which was made because i was such a coward. I could not handle what was happening (i am speaking mainly of the death of my daughter and, two yrs later, my husband). I was too weak to cope. I tried drinking and did a damn good job of it. To this day my liver hates me. I quit drinking the day i polished off a fifth and got behind the wheel (no accidents, thank God...but i realized i had no right to put others at risk because i could not cope with life). The half-assed suicide bid was again related to the drinking. I realized i had a bleeding ulcer and also knew it was a death sentence with the way i was pounding back the booze. I welcomed it. What happened to turn this around was the realization that i was alive and had to deal with that fact. I had to go on. There was no choice. I was too much of a coward to actually end my life. So i developed a coping mechanism that has become as natural to me as breathing. I accept that there is nothing bad that can ever happen to me that does not have a blessing attached to it. And that blessing will be my focus in the face of adversity. I try never to focus on the adversity itself, but rather the good that comes from it. And i do this not because i am strong, but because i am too weak to deal with the adversity in and of itself. So...here is what i am trying to say to you. When you think you see a "special" person, there is more there then you realize. You might be looking at a weak coward who developed coping skills. Edited to add...And i really think that because of my past i now appreciate the blessings so much more. I can say i have it all, and mean it!! And i in no way mean material possessions, as they mean nothing to me anymore. My blessings are, as i type this, hogging the remote (Hubby) and chasing the cat with a handful of PlayDough.[8\|]

heartfeltsub -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:56:36 AM)
sirsholly, that was very brave.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 2:58:05 AM)
Hrm. I'm not sure I'm capable of communicating the message I'm attempting to to either of you; I think we're coming from way too divergent world-views for anything I say to be received with its intended meaning intact.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 3:09:41 AM)
i'm sorry if that is the case.

Phoenixpower -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 3:42:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: But by the same token, what about people who aren't "special" that have gone through a similar amount of adversity? What makes one person who was molested as a kid brave for having lived through it, and another a fucking whiner who's using it as an excuse for his failure, assuming neither of them talk about it more than the other? Belief in themselves? The survivor of abuse knows they are so much more then a victim and will not permit the abuse to take over. Breaking out of the "victim" mentality can be frightening, painful, etc., but they are worth the effort and they know it. The tiny steps they take to get themselves out of that role are a confidence builder in and of themselves. exactly, been there, done that, proudly wear the t-shirt. Can't really say much anymore after that marvellous work Sirsholly and Heartfeltsub already did [sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif] However, another important factor IMO is the factor of being/becoming resilient and whilst I struggled through many bad aspects in my childhood on my own (inclusive re-occuring nightmares over approx. 7 years in my life) I am sure that I only managed it due to the resilience I had developed thanks to my Grandma. My parents and their spoilt brat from son always tried to put me down in every aspect they could find, I know that I was neither planned nor wanted as my mother said it honestly about 12 years ago, and I could feel that all my life. However, whenever they tried to put me down or to blame me for things I hadn't done in front of my Grandma they never succeeded. My Grandma always said it clearly when she didn't believe one of the things they tried to tell her as she simply knew me better and I was her special girl, no matter what anyone else would say (heck, once even another grandma tried to say something against me as I dared not to have any interest in a friendship with her granddaughter and there my grandma told her to stay out of others people business followed by a good bye - so meaning we were teenagers and old enough to sort our shit out ourselves and don't need grandmothers to interfere). As stated in this link http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/resilience/MH00078 quote: Resilience is the ability to roll with the punches. It means that although you encounter stress, adversity, trauma or tragedy, you keep functioning, both psychologically and physically. Resilience isn't about toughing it out or living by old cliches, such as "grin and bear it." It doesn't mean you ignore your feelings. When adversity strikes, you still experience anger, grief and pain, but you're able to go on with daily tasks, remain generally optimistic and go on with your life. Being resilient also doesn't mean being stoic or going it alone. In fact, being able to reach out to others for support is a key component of being resilient. Resilience helps protect you against mental health problems, such as depression and anxiety. It can also help offset factors that put you at risk of mental illness, such as lack of social support, being bullied or previous trauma. And being resilient can help you cope better with an existing mental illness. and one of their tips to work on strengthening the resilience is quite rightly quote: Get connected. Build strong, positive relationships with family and friends, who provide support and acceptance. Volunteer, get involved in your community, or join a faith or spiritual And there I simply value in my respect highly the relationship I had with my Grandma as I know I would not have coped as well without her unconditional love I had. Apart from that I am also lucky that at times I had the necessary help when needed over here, from my Ex over here who is still my best friend. So in regards to being special or not...well, I know that I am special to some people...but only to some and I have no intentions of trying to be it for everyone as after all we all have people who like us more and people who like us less. At work some staff try to put me down with nasty comments such as "seriously, nobody wants to work with you...and....this line of work is not for people like you" but hey...you know what??? As the opposite to the people over here in my profession "I DO" have a proper lengthy qualification in my job and know that I am good at it no matter what they are saying. I know that I get some peoples back up, but so what??? Last year one manager praised me at his manager as I stood up against one of those staff I just explained above and said that I do have high standards (which is not surprising considering we get qualified for that work in my country whereas people over her don't need a qualification in that job) and before he left his job to do something else he told me that he actually enjoyed it when people did complain about me as they basically disclosed themselves of being lazy as he knows I am not getting abrupt towards the staff who do their work...so I basically did a bit the work he was supposed to do [8\|] So a bit it is also about knowing yourself, your skills and your abilities. And that's also in relation to M/s relationships. I do know what I have to offer...and either I find him or not. Currently I am involved with a guy who seem to have it figured out, but only time will tell if we will work out. However, there will always be people who try to put you down, but hey, that is life. I was never drawn to the particular popular people because often those "great once" are nowhere to be seen when they are needed...I value much more the help from the people less being recognised by society then the ones who are so popular for whatever fucking reason. And last but not least, being popular/attractive/special can also attract the wrong sort of people, which I experienced and is one of the reasons I don't bother much about anymore to "make myself attractive" for anyone...I started to do it sometimes for my ex when we were together as he desired it, but everyone I am involved with has to get to know me from my standard (the normal casual one) and the ones who consider that as a problem...well, they can happily do so as we would not be a fit at all, as it just shows how shallow they are.

littlewonder -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 3:43:38 AM)
It sounds to me as if you have self esteem issues. Once you work on feeling good about yourself you'll attract others who actually want to be with you and who will see you as special. In reality no one wants to be with someone who doesn't see himself as deserving, who doesn't think he is just as good if not better than others. People want to be with others who are happy with themselves, not always down on themselves. Therapy of some kind seems like a solution here to me...be it in the form of a counselor, a therapist, or a spiritual guide. Good luck to you.

Level -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 3:44:21 AM)
Which is worse, truly seeing one's self for what they are, or not being able to?

Hierodule -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 3:46:57 AM)
Not Special!!! Just think,out of all the people in the world, your grandparents happened to meet and have children. Then your parents just happend to pair up. Then out of all your dad's sperm YOU were the best and the brightest of the bunch! And there were at least a thousand of them all fighting for that spot. All those poor f&%ers drowned and here you are! You Won!

DesFIP -> RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all (9/24/2009 3:47:58 AM)
I used to know one of those special people. Everything he had came easily to him and he was a very likable man. But although I envied how he put out his hand the universe dropped whatever into it, he was missing something. See, being someone like that meant he couldn't relate to anyone else. Including his parents, his brother or sister or his own children. He had sympathy but no empathy. By not ever having anything rough, he didn't know what the rest of humanity was like. He was damaged by his very gift. And I pity him. You see only what he has, not what he hasn't.

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