RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (Full Version)

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DCWoody -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (9/25/2009 11:20:04 AM)

Ya, this is annoying. You are not female just because you like to wear a dress, you do not get to change the english language to suit your fetish. Crossdressers who lie about their sex are no different than the normal fakers who lie about their sex.




LadyEllen -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (9/25/2009 11:42:59 AM)

Thank goodness I usually wear jeans, T shirt and trainers then eh?

E




Rule -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (9/25/2009 11:51:18 AM)

What is a crossdresser precisely, please?

Is it a male with a male body dressing as a woman, and vice versa?

Is a female with a male body dressing as a female also a crossdresser, and vice versa?

Is crossdressing limited to by the sexuality of the body only, or is it limited by to the gender of the mind as well?




Viridana -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (9/25/2009 12:25:57 PM)

I'm a female who wears pants every day.... does that make me a crossdresser?




LadyPact -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (9/25/2009 1:08:35 PM)

It's entirely possible that the OP is still around and has just hidden her profile.  After being called on a couple of points, such as her saying in her posts that she is married, but it wasn't listed on her profile (I'm so tempted to say pot meet kettle) and some of the personal exchanges that were prompted in cmail over this thread, it wouldn't surprise Me a bit if it's either hidden or deleted.

Whichever the case, I read the whole thread and I'm still responding to it.  The thread will be on the site long after a lot of folks close their profiles.

For the record, I have never studied gender or sexual psychological issues.  I'm a layman on the subject.  In fact, I would probably best be described as ignorant.  That being said, there are a few comments that I have.

After the long post/rant by the OP, I do agree with one thing.  In My personal opinion, it is unethical to misrepresent yourself.  If you are male, female, trans, or any other thing that identifies you, that is how you should present yourself.  I realize this may not be entirely easy for some with the boxes that are available to check.  Yet, that is what a person's profile can be used for.  Say for example, a person was born genetically male but is currently in transition, you could click any box.  It does seem appropriate to Me to list your circumstances in the body of the profile to say something such as where you are in your transition.  I feel that is the most honest thing to do.  Granted, this may reduce your chances to be involved with those who have a preference for only those born genetically female.  The reality is it that is probably in your own best interest to avoid such situations anyway.

As for the original post itself, it seemed to Me that it was a rather long winded tirade on what boils down to the chromosome debate.  In other words, the XX people are and always will be 'more' female than the XY people, no matter whether they have gone through transition or not.  Now, that is something that I think everyone is entitled to their personal opinion about.  Yet, while you are free to express such an opinion, you can not control whether it is shared by others or not.  This is especially true when it comes to their own lives, of which you are not a part.  That's as far as you get with that one.

When it comes to society, community, or any other thing, your opinion is only equal to that of any other individual.  It is common throughout the BDSM community at female only events that trans females are seen as females and have every right to attend.  I'll happily walk in the door with them to see that they are treated the same as any other female and have said so here on theads past.  They are female whether they are pre op or post op. 

It seems to Me that since the OP has been born with her particular birth defect (I hope that is the right term) that she has had issues with some that she doesn't see 'as female' as her.  The opinion that is coming across loud and clear is that she sees those born with the XY deal as less of a female than her.  My suggestion would be, don't get involved in a personal relationship with anyone who identifies as such.  Problem solved.

As for the silliness that TV/TS/CD folks are a danger to anyone on CM, I would honesly like to know how.  Can the OP bring even one instance of where a person was somehow sexually abused by someone else when they were sitting somewhere else on the other side of the screen?  Accusing a category of folks of criminal behavior to help substantiate your personal case of hatred for them is nothing more than rhetoric.  Unless you can come with reliable sources for facts, I would suggest that you don't throw around such statements.




mnottertail -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (9/25/2009 1:38:11 PM)

nah, she did a cut down version of the same old shit and posted it wondering how to start a chatroom.

R




autoRelease -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (9/25/2009 6:17:21 PM)

MissLeslie, there's one important point that you post missed. We transsexual people don't care what you think.  Sorry you wasted your breath.

Just out of curiosity though, I'd like to know how you go about getting DNA tests for everyone you meet in order to make certain of their gender.  That must be awkward and expensive.




Loki45 -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (9/26/2009 3:24:55 AM)

quote:

Original: MissLeslie

My points are all made; nothing else needs to be said on my part regarding the points that I have already made!

So far, the only point I've seen you successfully make is that you are very narrow-minded and have some sort of deep-seated psychosis that you may need to seek help for.

To everyone else: Don't y'all hate it when you see a person who "identifies" themselves as a researcher and a seeker of truth when they are really narrow-minded and refuse to listen to honest debate on a subject that they clearly have no clue about? Don't y'all feel that people like that are misrepresenting themselves?




Level -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (9/26/2009 4:21:24 AM)

quote:

Lady Pact wrote:

After the long post/rant by the OP, I do agree with one thing. In My personal opinion, it is unethical to misrepresent yourself. If you are male, female, trans, or any other thing that identifies you, that is how you should present yourself. I realize this may not be entirely easy for some with the boxes that are available to check. Yet, that is what a person's profile can be used for. Say for example, a person was born genetically male but is currently in transition, you could click any box. It does seem appropriate to Me to list your circumstances in the body of the profile to say something such as where you are in your transition. I feel that is the most honest thing to do. Granted, this may reduce your chances to be involved with those who have a preference for only those born genetically female. The reality is it that is probably in your own best interest to avoid such situations anyway.


Agreed.




kiwisub12 -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (9/26/2009 7:43:00 AM)

Please correct me if i am wrong (not that i ever am [8|]) but i was under the impression that cross dressers identified as male, but liked to dress in female clothing.
Surely if you have a male who dresses in womens clothing  -  AND calls him/herself a female, then they are by definition, a transgender individual.

For a man to identify himself in a profile as a woman would surely mean they are transgender- even if they don't openly identify that way.  Maybe its a case of everyone else knowing before they do   - kind of like when Clay Atkin came out and was confused when no-one was surprised. Some things people just know    -  subconscious cues are dropped by the individual and picked up by everyone around him/her.


and it sounds to me that the OP has a real issue with her mixed dna  - and how she identifies herself. She seems to need someone to look down on to make herself feel better about herself. The silly thing is , is that there are a large part of the people who post on cm that could care less about her dna, they would rather look at her as an individual, and judge her on that criteria.        and she has pooped in the sandbox.




Moonhead -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (9/26/2009 8:31:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Please correct me if i am wrong (not that i ever am [8|]) but i was under the impression that cross dressers identified as male, but liked to dress in female clothing.
Surely if you have a male who dresses in womens clothing  -  AND calls him/herself a female, then they are by definition, a transgender individual.

I think you're on the money there, though there are female to male crossdressers as well. Isn't the big distinction between a crossdresser and a transvestite that it isn't necessarily a sexual thing?




autoRelease -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (10/1/2009 7:11:25 PM)

Transvestite means cross-dresser. I think you meant transgender.




winterlight -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (10/1/2009 7:37:52 PM)

A period and ability to give birth..




winterlight -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (10/1/2009 7:41:18 PM)

oops sorry mods didnt realize it closed. i answered before i read it all..





cosmicowgurl -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (10/2/2009 2:54:32 AM)

Hi all, I’m new to Collarme and I was checking out the message boards when I ran across this topic and thought I’d add my 2 cents for what it’s worth. I must say however that it never ceases to amaze me of all the miss-information still going around in the community not to mention the deception by those in the Trans community none of which helps with any real understanding of this phenomena and only complicates an already confusing and emotionally charged subject. However having said that, I would like to correct some misconceptions if I can, that from what I have observed thus far. First, I would like to say that the Trans community is comprised of a huge spectrum of folks; it’s not always easy to label someone into one neat category in fact it’s impossible, one size does not fit all, so can I get A-Men ladies. LOL! For instance, in my case I am a cross-dresser, I am not bi or gay and have no interest in men other than friends, and I function in the world as a male when necessary so in some respects, I am ordinary Hetro-CD and I’m good with that. Still however I am besieged with e-mails from straight males some good some rude and one just plain nasty one from some seal wanna be non-com-poop so this makes me wonder a little and hope that I was very clear in my profile and feel that I was and just go with the flow and be polite. Anyway back to the subject at hand, besides Cross-Dressers you have Transvestites these are men who dress solely to attract other men for their own sexual motivations these are transvestites and not Cross-Dressers these individuals tend to be the typical stereotype most folks like to dump all of us into in order to keep it simple for them however, it is incorrect. Then you have the Pre-Operative Transsexuals either MtF (Male to Female) or FtM (Female to Male). As we know these folks truly, feel and believe that they were born in the wrong body and wish to change their anatomy to match the wiring in their brains in order to feel complete. Some studies suggest that in these individuals they were born with female brains may have been perhaps caused by a hormonal wash during pregnancy that could suggest one reason for transsexualism however, this is only preliminary study and further research is necessary to validate this hypothesis so this debate will continue for time and more study is necessary. Then we move on to She males, these are males who wish to appear as women by all outside appearances but retain their male gentile in order to function as males with males. Finally we have the Post-Op Transsexuals who have had their surgeries and in most cases disappear into the wood-work as it were and in a lot of cases just want to be seen as women to the world and from what I’ve seen disassociate themselves from the community all together in order to blend in more completely. This whole labeling system only gets crazier and varied from here but shows once again one size does not fit all. Now having said all that, what I see from my prospective an appalling lack of honesty among some individuals in our community for which, there is no excuse for their deception. I personally believe in being honest right up front and I think if anyone reads my profile, they can easily see who and what I am so I tried to prevent any surprises. So understandably, some folks who think they are getting one thing only to discover they have been deceived can get a little pissed. I think the safety issue is important for anyone however with some due diligence and common sense this shouldn’t be a issue. As suggested earlier, if you are meeting someone for the first time make it in open and very public place, perhaps have a friend call you as a security measure and getting pictures is a big help or perhaps talking to them over the phone first before meeting what you think is a woman. No offense to the Trans Folk out there but the voice is usually a dead give away, sorry girls. In closing, it’s to bad some feel the need to be less than honest however I understand the need for acceptance of who you are but not at the expense of other innocent parties the out come could be less than desirable to engage such practices. I hope some this is helpful and not to wordy so thanks for reading. [:)]




Moonhead -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (10/2/2009 3:51:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: autoRelease

Transvestite means cross-dresser. I think you meant transgender.

I think there's more to the distinction that that: you can get a buzz from dressing as a member of the opposite gender without feeling you were born with the wrong arrangement of external sex organs, after all.

(And I'd completely missed cosmicowgurl's far more comprehensive and less snide looking last word on this when I posted. Mea culpa.)




Lucylastic -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (10/2/2009 5:48:07 AM)

Welcome to the boards Cosmicowgirl :) hope you enjoy your time here.

Lucy




cosmicowgurl -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (10/2/2009 5:30:00 PM)

Hi again, I will agree with your observation in that there was a “buzz” initially from dressing especially when I was younger. However, in my case, this has diminished over the years to where it just feels more comfortable and natural to me and now that I have the freedom, I do it out of habit. I still believe that more work needs to be done in order for everyone to have a better understanding of the what, and why of this behavior. However at the same time not foster in minds of some folks the need to be to deceptive out of fear, this not meant to be any justification for their behavior but I know all this stems from guilt again, this not an excuse for deception. I believe once guilt is removed from the equation perhaps the need for deception will vanish as well, one can only hope anyway. Truth is a wonderful thing and will set you free; I hope it catches on someday.




GreedyTop -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (10/2/2009 10:20:38 PM)

cosmiccowgurl... lemme add my welcome, and great post!

I'd only ask a wee favor though... paragraphs, please?  LOL  My eyes are getting old, and it gets hard to read solid blocks of text :)

Again, welcome!




cosmicowgurl -> RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gender And Sexuality (10/2/2009 11:26:21 PM)

Hi, and Thank You for your kind words and all your welcomes. And sorry for my wordiness too, I’ll try better to keep it shorter. I will say that lying sucks no matter what or where and I as a matter of course I discourage it when talking with others in the community because so many do it and justify it with magical thinking sooner or later reality hits you in the face, or the right cross of a really pissed off guy thinking you were his next girlfriend. LOL! In short, this does not help folks like me or anyone else in our case for acceptance.




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