RE: Schools promoting hatred?

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Louve00 -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 12:43:07 PM)
I have been skimming thru this thread, watching and reading what people think about this. Just to put my opinion into the side tangent of this thread, I think homeschooling is just that, school at home. Like tazzy, I can't speak for all states, but when I looked into it down here in the state of Florida, I found it is a very regimented process. You follow the regular school curriculum for your county, and that's given to you by the school board. You can even have your child included in school (regular school) field trips if you like, as field trips are a requirement of Volusia County, Fl. Everything is pretty much supervised by the schools and you report to the school that your child would be going to (in that district) for any problems, text books, course content and whatever. I don't see where a child will suffer academically from homeschooling. However (and it is just my opinion), I do think, unless the parent sees to it that the child is socializing with his or her peers, socialization can be the only thing lacking. But that certainly can be overcome by taking the child to the Y, joining the scouts, or any other of numerous activities outside the school that will enable a child to learn to mix and socialize with their peers. With that opinion out of the way, I kind of have mixed thoughts over this. My daughter would probably not have a problem viewing a film like this. I seriously doubt she would need counseling after seeing it. And me (myself) would probably not object to her viewing a film like that because A) I feel she could take it, and B) it is a reality. It is harsh, but still educational. I remember watching gruesome driver's ed films of kids cutting up behind the wheel and the consequences of it. Granted...a driver's ed film depicting the consequence of carelss driving isn't as gruesome as someone being beheaded, of course. None the less, its a lesson to be learned in our history. If you think the visualization of it is too harsh, then maybe it could be discussed verbally. But I don't believe in shielding a child who is old enough to learn and should learn just because we (who already know these things) are uncomfortable with content. And once it is discussed, the visualization is just an afterthought (however provocative). If the teacher, without warning and discussion decided to just put the video on and let the kids see it without a heads up....and if you have a child that is not mentally prepared to view it, then yes...I agree it could have repercussions. So, I think it greatly depends on each individual child, and because of that, then yes, there should be some preparation, and maybe some parental consent. But, just as I didn't (and still dont) think black history should be sequestered and only select parts revealed in an educational way, I don't think world history, again, however unpleasant it might be, be sequestered and only select parts approved of to reveal to kids an educational way. Just my [sm=2cents.gif]

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 5:04:06 PM)
And it is my belief that many of those under 18 are being coddled. In a year this girl will be of majority age, meaning she is an adult in the real world. How prepared is she? Sorry but I have been preparing each of my kids since they were 13. At 14 I drove both my daughter, and then my son, to one of the projects in Atlanta, at night. Then to the public park close by. I don't shield them from things, instead I show them and talk to them about things. "She said she has to talk to somebody about it because those images are really upsetting her still," he said. "She can't believe people can be that cruel to each other." The almost adult girl had no idea that people could be that cruel? Then she was raised too sheltered. I do agree that the parents should have been informed before the viewing, but knowing many parents these days, the class would have been empty, with most of those 17 year old children tucked in their beds by Mommy and Daddy. Each parent can raise their kids as they wish, and I hope to make mine hard enough to withstand another 9/11 attack, and compassionate enough to help in the aftermath. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And its my belief that children are being forced to become adults far sooner than they should be. Schools have no right to show such material to children without parental consent. It tossed one child into counseling... one too many. The UK has banned the director. Showing acts of murder, not just pictures of the aftermath, as in the holocost... but actual acts, can be detremental. In school, we watched films about the holocaust as well. Watch this one. you may gain a better perspective. Maybe not.

tazzygirl -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 5:12:06 PM)
And thats part of the difference here, Master Orion. You talked to them about what they saw, they feel safe discussing fears with their father. Who talked to these kids after that clip? How many would have approved of the Passion being shown in school?

Loki45 -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 7:25:15 PM)
quote: Original: tazzygirl However, the idea that this is being shown to our children... even at 17.. is extremely disturbing. To realize that something she was shown at 17 in our public schools has caused her to seek counseling .. thats sad... thats scary... and i think we have alot to be worried about when it comes to our schools. I couldn't help but laugh at this line: "She said she has to talk to somebody about it because those images are really upsetting her still," he said. "She can't believe people can be that cruel to each other." All I can think to say is "welcome to the real world, kiddo." Apparently this girl had her head in the sand in 2001 when people were plummeting to their deaths to avoid fires in buildings caused by people flying planes into them. Odd though, I have spoken with more than a few young adults recently who related how they were in class watching that tragedy unfold. Funny how that's 'ok' and it's 'ok' to have footage like the article references in the news, yet to use it as a teaching tool....oh that's too much. We can have movies like Hostel and Hostel II, Saw 1 through...whenever they feel like finishing the saga....yet a video like this causes someone to seek counseling. Talk about mixed up priorities. This stuff does happen in real life. Refusing to deal with it or choosing to ignore it doesn't make it not happen. It just lets those who commit such acts get away with it because no one wants to think about the fact that it happens.

tazzygirl -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 7:29:32 PM)
And you have proof this girl has seen any of those movies? i havent... the last horror flick i watched was Friday the 13th... the original.. when it came out in theaters... oh too damn many years ago.

thornhappy -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 7:33:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Homeschooling has no downside. Do you really think that this quote applies to every single homeschooling situation?

tazzygirl -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 7:48:43 PM)
His comment was this... quote: The only real downside to homeschooling is probably in being able to teach social skills i.e. being isolated from all the people going through the same experience of growing up. In terms of one on one teaching nobody can dispute the obvious benefits of that and if the parent wants to exclude certain subjects (Darwin etc.) then they can create this perfect ignorant child in their own image. He stated the only real downside to homeschooling was social skills...Since that was not the case in my situation, and the thousand of families i have met when schooling my son, i dont see that as a downside.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 8:11:03 PM)
In case you missed it before, I mentioned that difference and agreed. I agreed that the parents should have been informed, but I also said that most parents would rather shelter their young adults, than show them what does happen in the world. You stated children are having to become adults far sooner. The girl is 17, that is not a child, but a young adult. The more people treat them like children, then they will continue to live up to that expectation. quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I do agree that the parents should have been informed before the viewing, but knowing many parents these days, the class would have been empty, with most of those 17 year old children tucked in their beds by Mommy and Daddy. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And thats part of the difference here, Master Orion. You talked to them about what they saw, they feel safe discussing fears with their father. Who talked to these kids after that clip? How many would have approved of the Passion being shown in school?

Loki45 -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 8:11:43 PM)
quote: Original: tazzygirl And you have proof this girl has seen any of those movies? i havent... the last horror flick i watched was Friday the 13th... the original.. when it came out in theaters... oh too damn many years ago. I don't need proof of that for my point to stand. Actually, I was making two points simultaneously. One was about the girl's sheltered existence: This girl is almost a legal adult. She lived during a time when the US suffered one of the worst attacks in history, coverage was literally wall to wall. Many young adults I have met related seeing continuing coverage of that attack while in grade school. For this girl to "not believe people can be that cruel" means she's the most sheltered, mal-adjusted person she can be. She was raised a victim. She's got far more of a wake-up call in store for her. I recently found out that a girl I knew in high school joined the Marines after she graduated. That's 18 years old. What do you think Marines see and experience on a daily basis? Easily far more than what was in that video. And this girl, after seeing a video, needs counseling. Man, she's sure ready for the real world, ain't she? My second point was more about those who would take umbrage or be angry that this video would be shown in class. Yeah, I saw Friday the 13th too. And Nightmare on Elm St. And a whole slew of others, and that's just the FICTION. Watch the nightly news one time. A student kills his teacher for no reason. A man kills his wife and 5 year old daughter. Two men in different cities are arrested trying to blow up sky scrapers. Seems to me that one little video used as a teaching tool pales in comparisson.

tazzygirl -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 8:20:35 PM)
And the beauty of it all is... we dont have to agree [;)]

reamer -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 8:31:58 PM)
I have a better request for an example of teaching via pragmatic example. mnottertail, could you please tell us how you have managed to have an animated gif for an avatar? or if it is some sort of animated png sequence, how may we use an animated png sequence to have an avatar like your own? best regards, Reamer

Loki45 -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 8:37:25 PM)
quote: Original: tazzygirl And the beauty of it all is... we dont have to agree. That's true. One of us can see the world the way it really is and the other can choose to keep her head in the sand.

tazzygirl -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 8:44:42 PM)
or one of us can actually know our children and handle them the best way we know how.. instead of allowing a bunch of strangers to expose them without followup ah, always another side to any coin.. huh

Loki45 -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 9:16:36 PM)
quote: Original: tazzygirl or one of us can actually know our children and handle them the best way we know how.. instead of allowing a bunch of strangers to expose them without followup. Yeah, from what I've seen, that's quite rare... almost to the point of being a myth. There are typically two kinds of parents. One will rely on the school and government to teach and protect their kids, only expressing outrage when they catch a glimpse of something they disagree with. The other kind shelters their kid from life by homeschooling and generally restricting everything they do, see or hear, thus ensuring that at the first opportunity, they are easy victims for the predators of our society. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule. But of course, it's the exceptions that prove the rule. I could go into why parenting problems exist, but it doesn't matter. It wouldn't change much. So, I just shake my head and laugh at the humor of it all.

reamer -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/25/2009 9:24:12 PM)
what about orphans raised by the state, or whom consider the military as defacto parents?

Elipsis -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/26/2009 3:26:27 AM)
I agree with Loki. You're 17, you're going to be 18 in some number of months less than 12... the world is a terrible place... get fucking used to it. At 17 you're still technically a minor but hardly a child. On 9/11/2001 I was 17, did any of you guys watch the news that day... there was a this thing that happened that some of you might have picked up if you were paying close attention. Luckily I had come to terms that terrible things happen in the world about 6 years earlier than that. I was a little sad about it, of course. Poor me. Some number in the thousands of children lost their parents that day and a lot of them were way younger than 17. Trying to protect adolecents from "violent imagery" at that age is doing them a huge disservice. If you can't handle that kind of knowledge about the world by then, you need to grow up a fair bit. Now moving on to homeschooling: From my experience kids that were exclusively home-schooled are usually very intelligent and curious, but also socially underdeveloped, usually less mature and poorly able to deal with personal conflict. It's the same argument I was making above, really... unless you're captain of the football team school is a nasty place at times. Learning how to deal with assholes, morons, and hardasses probably ultimately was a more valuable skill set for me than calculus.

barelynangel -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/26/2009 5:05:34 AM)
"She said she has to talk to somebody about it because those images are really upsetting her still," he said. "She can't believe people can be that cruel to each other."Since the controversy arose, he said his daughter has been ridiculed and feels like an outcast at the school. "She stood up for what's right, and then everybody's kind of teasing her," he said. She hasn't seen a councelor YET, and something tells me its the fact kids are teasing her that she is making a big deal about this. Something tells me in my cynical nature lol that this is her parents setting her up to get her college paid for by the school board. To me, her father's statements are very telling --- especially the emphasized part. The point is PEOPLE CAN BE THAT CRUEL. Its in the news every day. Unless of course her parents keep her from watching ANY news. The point is in our country 3000 people died in the span of HOURS due to extremists. Many of us saw the REALITY of that play out on television and in person, we heard the phone calls of those who were minutes away from death to loved ones, we saw people jumping out of skyscrapers, we saw dead being carried out. Many jew experienced the holocast, they lived through it or the results of same, the stories etc . To me, its a tough call for teachers nowadays, do they shelter or do they use actual shock value to really give our children the knowledge they need to survive in a world that is fully of suspicion, full of violence, full of people BEING that cruel to each other? Or do we sorta hint at it and not really prepare them for the actuality of what our world is? We were all sorta thrust into this world, we had no one to explain it to us as we in the US especially lived pretty much a life of the actuality won't effect us as it did the rest of the world until September 11th. But we have a chance to PREPARE our kids to be ready for it, to understand it, and maybe with their "new eyes" idea they can come up with ways wherein they can exist in the future more secure because they aren't REACTING to something that happened to tear our innocence away such as Sept 11, but instead are acting with knowledge, understanding etc. The are prepared. THis is no longer 1999, i really don't think our young adults and to me that is what a 17 year old is, ready to go out into the world in a year or 2, need to be kept in naivity. They MUST be prepared for what our world is. To me, at 17, she needs to start becoming aware of the reality of our world and that yes, people are that cruel. Not only for her own safety, but for her own knowledge. On many levels its a know thy enemy concept. In their generation and life -- extremists ARE THEIR ENEMY. They have to know what they are capable of. The school has said the film was inapproprate so that is being taken care of, but that isn't the point to me. The point is -- in our society, when should the reality start being integrated into our kids lives so they can not only deal with it but also live in it and hopefully make it better. I wonder what the other kids think about what they saw and how it helped them understand the lesson regarding extremists? As i said, on some level i think this is a ploy and this girl's parents are looking to get her college education paid for. grins, that's reality of our society too and something tells me her parents don't mind the school giving them a reason to thrust her into THAT reality. You know the search for easy money cause someone did something you don't like and so you can sue them reality and get lots of money. I hope i am wrong and this is simply concern from parents and the girl about what they deem is a topic that needs to be discussed instead of looking for a concept of easy money. angel

Eigenaar -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/26/2009 5:14:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel The school has said the film was inapproprate so that is being taken care of. How is/was the film inappropriate?

tazzygirl -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/26/2009 7:29:57 AM)
quote: Now moving on to homeschooling: From my experience kids that were exclusively home-schooled are usually very intelligent and curious, but also socially underdeveloped, usually less mature and poorly able to deal with personal conflict. It's the same argument I was making above, really... unless you're captain of the football team school is a nasty place at times. Learning how to deal with assholes, morons, and hardasses probably ultimately was a more valuable skill set for me than calculus. Which is what the karate is for [:)]

tazzygirl -> RE: Schools promoting hatred? (9/26/2009 7:35:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: Original: tazzygirl or one of us can actually know our children and handle them the best way we know how.. instead of allowing a bunch of strangers to expose them without followup. Yeah, from what I've seen, that's quite rare... almost to the point of being a myth. There are typically two kinds of parents. One will rely on the school and government to teach and protect their kids, only expressing outrage when they catch a glimpse of something they disagree with. The other kind shelters their kid from life by homeschooling and generally restricting everything they do, see or hear, thus ensuring that at the first opportunity, they are easy victims for the predators of our society. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule. But of course, it's the exceptions that prove the rule. I object to this film based upon the message of hatred and the images applied. Its amusing to see how this is ok for schools, yet a children's song is not. Either way, they are being brain washed... just in different directions. Im sure you only see two kinds of parents. I dont fall into either category. quote: I could go into why parenting problems exist, but it doesn't matter. It wouldn't change much. So, I just shake my head and laugh at the humor of it all. Im sure you could go into why you believe parenting problems exist. if you knew, your practice would be far too busy to allow you any time on line.

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