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RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/27/2009 10:36:14 AM   
worthlesstrash


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I don't really use it on a constant basis for anyone. Sometimes if I am just speaking with a man it will come out. It has nothing to do with dominance, it's just polite around here to do so.

I did use Ma'am when writing a female dominant the other day, but since I was approaching her, I just felt it was respectful. I don't ever mean to offend anyone, I just use what pops out of my mouth (or fingers).




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(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/27/2009 11:00:05 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


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Under the guise of the power exchange dynamic, the use of the word "Sir" or other honorific should be reserved in use for the one you belong to. Period.  To toss it about to anyone who simply alleges they are dominant (or a Dominant) cheapens and dilutes its intent. 

My personal opinion (and personal experience) of those who insist it should be used with ALL alleged Dominants is they are doing it for themselves (i.e., they get off on it), no matter how much they may insist it's being used out of "respect".  Once again, I'm limiting its use to THIS DYNAMIC, so the whole, "I'm from the South, and that's how I was raised" thing doesn't wash.

Additionally, my experience has also shown those Dominants that INSIST a sub/slave immediately refer to them as "Sir", "Ma'am" or with any other honorific right out of the box are as insecure insecure gets;  and hardly the alleged "Dominant" they claim to be.  Instead, they are little more than INSECURE TWITS who place their alleged Dominant stock in words, not actions.



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RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/27/2009 12:26:56 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:


Twisted




Posts: 266
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: online In the good old days...of chatrooms?

Where were these chatrooms where such rigorous training and vetting of Dominants took place?

How did the occupants of the chatrooms know when someone was worthy of the gravitas of the Capital Letter?

And even in reallife, when I go to dungeons, there is no vetting, there is no system of determining who is worthy of this that or the other title or honor or rank. In most places, you pay your fee, sign a waiver, and shazam, you are a submissive/ slave/ Master/ Domme/ Grand Imperial Wizard or whatever the hell you want to call yourself.

Was it ever different? Were there ever august and solemn Boards of Review that granted the title of "Sir" on hopeful young masters? Who elected them, or how were the decisions made? A vote, a consensus? Were there appeals?

Or was it really just a loose grouping of people who shared an interest in power relationships, and like all subcultures had a loose agreement as to norms and etiquette?


AR,
Well as I stated the point of the post has become diluted substancially. As to your question of where are all those rooms that such behavior existed..... well they are largly gone as a victim of bandwidth costs. One of my past favorites was a set of rooms reached through kinky cards that had a selection of 9 rooms with one dedicated to just general chat for none path walkers, Silent Screams comes to mind as well as Adult Chat on Compuserve.

Now adays you will only find the prefixes on Bondage and Alt. If there were boards of review it was before my time but then I think that comment was more sarcasim orientated. No, back then it was much more than as you call it a loose grouping of people.

Structure in any form is now tobe disavowed, as is shown in many posts here in this thread. Shruggs, it is what it is but for me I am stuck in the past and prefer to stay there.

Thanks for your input.

CP

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/27/2009 12:38:13 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

If the OP is implying that the term Sir has ever meant anything other than a term of respect when addressing a male human being who resides on this planet, then I am afraid he is under a misconception. A submissive who addresses an individual who believes he is a dominant as Sir, is in no way validating his belief. The submissive is in no way under any obligation to submit to anyone simply because they are referred to as Sir. The only time the term Sir means anything more is when two or more individuals who are entering into or are in a relationship mutually agree that it does.


Acer,

Damn, it is hard to accept that I have been under a misconception for 25 years!!

I see that you are relatively new to the boards............... well ectually very new to the boards and CM I will not even pretend to address your experiential base for your comments but I will make one point clear that you seem to have not understood; well actually two.
1. The use of a precursor such as sir or ma'am does not nor has it ever denoted the act of submission to that person.......... only that the used was a submissive.
2. the use of sir is not a self validation for a Dom or Domme.

CP

(in reply to Acer49)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/27/2009 12:41:30 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

I'm not new but I've never viewed anyone who happens to be into bdsm, or in a D/s relationship as anything other than just another person. I'm not knocking anyone for whom it means something but it simply never has to me.

So, my application is .........I don't call anyone anything other than their name and see no reason to.

agirl


agirl,

The D/s path has always been a "different strokes for different folks" for those that did not care dfor structure of some kind.

thanks for your comments.

CP

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/27/2009 5:13:40 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

I'm relativively new to r/l D/s, but I've been surfing the D/s chatrooms a lot longer and I think there's a big difference between how people behave towards each other in the r/l scene and how they behave in cuberspace. I've never been refered to as Sir in r/l and haven't heard Anyone else refered to as Sir or Ma'am either, and like I said, I'm reletively new to r/l D/s so I admit I don't know what I don't know, but I get the impression the whole "Sir/Ma'am" thing is mainly for the online fetishers.


HW,

Well as you proceed, my money is on that will change. The influence of D/s is vastly different in some parts of the country and I personally know some couples where sir is a common denominator to keep the dynamic from getting stale.

Thanks for your input.

CP

(in reply to HalloweenWhite)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/27/2009 6:03:23 PM   
sweetsub1957


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

I don't frequent the chatrooms, but when I type here on the message boards, or when I'd written letters to Dominants, I capitalize "Sir" or "Ma'am." I just do because, when I answered my first c-mail, a Dom immediately informed me that His pronouns should all be capitalized & I just thought that's how it was supposed to be. However, I no longer use slashy speak. haha


sweetsub, Thanks for myour comments, now if only I knew what slashy speak was I would be a very learned dominant.

CP


Oh.  No problem.  Slashy speak is when O/one tries to include E/everyone by using slashes and both capital and small case letters so N/no O/one feels snubbed or referred to wrongly, and E/everyone is happy.  :)  There Ya go. 

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An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/27/2009 7:05:29 PM   
Lucienne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince
I will make one point clear that you seem to have not understood; well actually two.
1. The use of a precursor such as sir or ma'am does not nor has it ever denoted the act of submission to that person.......... only that the used was a submissive.
2. the use of sir is not a self validation for a Dom or Domme.

CP


So I guess no one in the bdsm community was ever in the military, or raised in a military family, or raised in the south... because last I checked, "sir" and "ma'am" were just polite forms of address without all this extra qualification.

(in reply to CelticPrince)
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RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/28/2009 6:32:08 AM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

A//all H/he ect is what I understand as slashy speak.
as for the Sir thing, My love is my Sir if and when I chat everyone else is just a person, I respect the orientation but it is meaningless to me so I dont capitalise anyone or I do it to everyone


angel,

Thanks for the revalation of slashy speak, I never heard of it being refered to it with a name.

CP

(in reply to angelslave77)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/28/2009 2:32:57 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

If you're talking about upper or lower case, then it is obviously an online/chat thing. Because in real life, nobody turns to their dominant and says "Upper case Sir, would you like another cup of coffee?".

And since nobody I have never met is someone I automatically defer to, I don't use online conventions. I don't use chat so can't speak of that but my understanding is that different chat rooms have different conventions.

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Des,

Your upper case Sir comment made me laugh.......... clearly I agree that is an online application.

CP

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/28/2009 10:18:28 PM   
abuddingdom


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If slashyspeak  floats your boat then go for it, it's your life & it's your standards, but it makes me nuts just reading it. If I had to write like that I'd go vanilla.....

In my experience , in both the online community and in what I would call real life / real time community there are those submissives who seem to view the addressing  of all male D types as Sir asa lifestyle mandate and there are those male D types who expect ( or would like to expect) all S types to call them Sir from the get-go. Then there's S types who use it more informally, such as "night, Sir", "see you nect week , Sir", etc   when one of us is leaving an event but most of the time they refer to me by my name. And there's those S types who reserve it only for someone they've grown to respect.When submissives email me, which isnt all that often, some will  address me as Sir. A recent example - someone emailed me and said " Thank you for viewing my profile, Sir." I look at it asa formality on their part & I even welcome it but I don't view it as anything more than that. And I sure as hell don't expect it , nor do I question why another submissive who emails me didn't call me Sir.  I'm a D type but I often refer to D types as Sir or Ma'am but only if I like and respect them, such as "hello / good night, Ma'am", or " Good to see you, Sir".  I  give it and take it  simply - I repeat, simply -sometimes as courtesy or asa sign of respect but expect it from noone  with whom I'm not ina relationship.With one exception - we rarely scene with anyone other than each other but if I am to be scening with someone I have 2 expectations -  during the scene they focus  as entirely on me and what I'm doing as possible, and they refer to me as Sir when speaking to me

Im my relationship it evolved. My pretty one now calls me Sir the vast majority of the time . She called me Sir when playing from the very first time we played, but for a couple months only when we played. For those first couple months we were seeing each other often but we didn't live together. An emphasis was placed on service and we were feeling each other out and didn't do any real serious negotiating re expectations, protocol, obedience, etc. Baby steps, then slightly bigger steps. When we did move things up a couple steps and began negotiating seriously  it felt right to place the expectation that she call me Sir at certain times , those being Good morning Sir, Good night Sir, and at those times I gave her explicit direction( yes Sir, or, I need more details Sir). Over time she started calling me Sir more&more often,and eventually even thinking of me as Sir.  Other than what I just mentioned I didn't place title expectations on her, I felt my expectation was enough to start and anything beyond that I'd earn by the way I acted, or not. I recollect noting it as something of a milestone when she started beginning emails or written notes with  " Sir : ".

This is one of those things that there's no one, or even twenty "right" ways of doing it. What I just wrote is how it works for me, & how it worked for us......


(in reply to CelticPrince)
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RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/28/2009 10:38:41 PM   
roughleather


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For a sub to call their dom "Sir" is fine. That's part of the dynamic.

Anybody who refers to themself as "Sir" or "Master" is a pretentious asshat. 

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/29/2009 6:16:24 AM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

I don't call anyone Sir except Master and the occasional old man at work to soothe his angry mind (makes him calm down enough for me to speak rationally with him).

In chat rooms and online forums they get called their screenname. In real life they get Mr so and so or in my line of work, Attorney So and So.


lilwonder,

well there is at least one Sir in your life, thats a good thing!

CP

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/29/2009 1:34:25 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

Oh. No problem. Slashy speak is when O/one tries to include E/everyone by using slashes and both capital and small case letters so N/no O/one feels snubbed or referred to wrongly, and E/everyone is happy. :) There Ya go.

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sweetsub,

the mystery was cleared up prior to this post but I do thank you for the effort.

CP

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RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/29/2009 3:38:45 PM   
Vendaval


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I do not think chat rooms are a good representation of anything other than bad grammar and poor manners.

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great day, I will tease you all the same."
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(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/29/2009 6:45:47 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

So I guess no one in the bdsm community was ever in the military, or raised in a military family, or raised in the south... because last I checked, "sir" and "ma'am" were just polite forms of address without all this extra qualification.


Lucienne,

The military is simply one segment of society as is D/s, often they merge but methinks I miss the point of your comment.
D/s does not exclude the military.

CP

(in reply to Lucienne)
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RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/29/2009 6:55:41 PM   
Sunnyfey


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I will only ever call someone Sir or Master (when I am not at work...) when they earn that PRIVILEGE from me.

It may only take someone 30 seconds to earn the privilege to be called Sir by me, like an older gentleman waiting his turn for all the ladies to pass him first when going out a door, or someone holding a door open for me or a mother and children in front of me. The fact is it's still earned. Either way (d/s or not) its a term of respect for me.


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RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/29/2009 8:19:38 PM   
Andalusite


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CP, I've been doing D/s and BDSM for 15 years, but didn't get into the online thing until about 5 or 6 years ago. Once I did, I used forums, but mostly not chat rooms. So, I never got much into the honorifics, weird capitalisation, or s/Slashy S/speak. I think those conventions are rather silly or outright annoying. I use Sir when addressing my Master frequently, and did so with my previous dominant as well. Otherwise, I just use "sir" in the generic "hey whatsyerface" way toward male strangers, or at Renaissance Faires when addressing someone who is playing a Knight. I also use it if it is actually part of someone's name, but it's just their nickname/screen-name, and doesn't hold any respectful connotation, anymore than "Worthless" or "slut" means that I actually feel dominating or humiliating toward people who include those terms in their name.

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RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/29/2009 9:17:07 PM   
Arpig


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Um, why not just use the proper English usage?

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RE: The evolution of "Sir" - 9/29/2009 9:25:15 PM   
lovingpet


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~FR~ *intentionally leapfrogging*

I simply do not address other people as sir or maam except out of common courtesy (my elders, customers, strangers when face to face, etc).  Futher, I will only capitalize where it is grammatically appropriate.  I don't care what the conventions are.  This is the way it works for me.  I do capitalize my partner's title when it is being used as a replacement for his name.  That is consistent with the rules I was taught and also denotes respect to him when he is filling that position directly.  I just look at "sir" as another of a thousand honorifics and do not offer them unless there is some kind of honor to be emphasized. 

lovingpet

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