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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/27/2009 11:04:43 PM

Elipsis

Posts: 301
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quote:

So, am I wrong for seeing people for what, and how they write their thoughts and reactions? Can anyone here say honestly that they don't? They don't look at that initial email full of bad spelling and "netspeak" and form their first impression?

(Separate post because this a completely separate idea I'm going for here.)

I will admit that when I see really poorly written replies I assume that the author isn't exceptionally intelligent, and while I'm sure this assumption is more often than not correct... it is by no means a perfect predictor of intelligence. Picture the following scenarios:

You get tons of misspellings in a reply.
Your assumption
-Author can't spell, probably a result of a poor education.
Reality
-Author is a Ph. D. who has a really old keyboard with an unreliable backspace key. It's really just too frustrating to correct all those typos.

You read a reply with terrible grammar.
Your assumption
-Unintelligent person with no concept of the English language
Reality
-You're talking to a lawyer who already put in 80 hours this week and had to file many briefings which will be scrutinized by district and appellate court judges. To them, it is such a relief to write a sentence that won't be subject to judicial review that they celebrate by not wasting the time and effort writing their sentences by the book.

Your reply has tons of "netspeak" and single characters where words should be.
Your assumption
-They are either an idiot, immature, or at best simply lazy.
The reality
-They have been away from collarme.com for the last 2 months because they were busy finishing the last chapter in their new book about quantum theory. They now have 360 email messages to answer, but have an important meeting with their publisher in 1 hour. They are a very efficient person and have calculated that they have enough time to respond to everyone if they allot 10 seconds per reply. Their response to you was thus a result of very careful planning and time optimization.

Of course, none of this really changes the fact that if someone is taking you seriously and cares at all what you think of them... they are probably going to take the time to not sound like an idiot.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Post #: 21

RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/27/2009 11:12:35 PM

Sunnyfey

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See this whole thing is kind of like when my ex asked me to go get an IQ test done, so he could "better understand" the way I think. I told him I'd only go take a test if HE did also. Then I asked him if he REALLY wanted to know if I was smarter then him or not.

We never did go take those IQ tests.

ETA: It all really depends on how you measure intelligence. Like myself, I have quite a few problems with grammar and spelling, which is symptom of a learning disability I have. Then again, every teacher I have ever had told me I was a very intelligent girl for my age. And as we all know NZ is a damn intelligent man, if I'm so stupid that I cant write a sentence perfectly, why would NZ be with me?

Just because I wont be majoring in English or anything like that, does not mean I am stupid.

< Message edited by Sunnyfey -- 9/27/2009 11:19:36 PM >

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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/27/2009 11:15:14 PM

Elipsis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Most of the facets we attribute to intelligence can be learned. After a while, we're essentially only talking about those who learn better and/or have had something in their personal life make them motivated to learn.

The degree of intelligence of someone isn't as big a deterrent to me as the level of willful ignorance. Intentional anti-intellectualism and the notion that anyone can have an "opinion" (and that since opinions don't require any actual studiousness as to credibility, they can get away with being just as "right" as someone genuinely learned in a topic) is much different than whether they know of and can discuss Zeno's paradox, punctuated equilibrium, or Pascal's wager.

I'm actually not familiar with punctuated equilibrium (how embarrassing!!), but being familiar with Zeno's paradox and Pascal's wager would be attributed to knowledge, not intelligence.

I think you already understand this based on your post, but it's an important distinction to make if this thread continues to go places so I'm going to reiterate in my own terms. When I was talking about intelligence in my first post I was talking about the ability to learn, the ability to conceptualize, and the ability to understand and work with difficult or abstract concepts. Someone who memorized the periodic table has crammed their head with knowledge but it doesn't really say much for their intelligence. Also it has already been pointed out that there are multiple kinds of intelligence... but this is my attempt to broadly define "intelligence."

Hmm... now can we make a thread about Pascal's wager and how ridiculous it is? You got me thinking about it again...

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Post #: 23

RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/27/2009 11:17:05 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

Can you see yourself with someone that is most sincerely your intellectual superior? How about someone that is obviously no where near as smart as yourself? I'm asking this in General BDSM because I don't believe it matters what side of the kneel you're on.

in all honesty this is my preference. i'm quite the sponge and i absorb things rapidly. i'm not intimidated by someone that has experiences or knowledge that i do not possess. i view relationships as opportunities for collective sharing. the brush he applies to my canvas can be the beginning of a beautiful masterpiece. each stroke serves its own purpose. why deny them?

quote:

So, am I wrong for seeing people for what, and how they write their thoughts and reactions? Can anyone here say honestly that they don't? They don't look at that initial email full of bad spelling and "netspeak" and form their first impression?

what you read can have a myriad of interpretations. one may be able to detect that the author has some measure of intelligence based on the style of writing or flow of ideas that he puts forth. however, whether this person is competent and able to put those things into play is something different. this is where i place my focus. i'm aware that some are quite gifted as writers and can paint a convincing portrait that could be wholly fraudulent.

in regard to poor writing, i've been spared the horrors of such for the most part. i'm very discerning about the company i keep and those i communicate with in text. i look for many things, including a strong capacity to articulate their feelings and ideas without sounding like a textbook. i want the human element as well. yes spelling matters, but i'm not overly anal about it. my biggest concern is that this person is engaging and someone i wish to speak with. otherwise it is waste of keystrokes on both ends of the screen.

while i'm sorry that your time on collarme did not manifest the dynamic you sought, i wish you and yours the best on your future endeavors.

porcelaine

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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/27/2009 11:19:06 PM

Elipsis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

See this whole thing is kind of like when my ex asked me to go get an IQ test done, so he could "better understand" the way I think. I told him I'd only go take a test if HE did also. Then I asked him if he REALLY wanted to know if I was smarter then him or not.

We never did go take those IQ tests.

Wow... how on earth would an IQ test, which I'm pretty sure just gives you an integer as a result, give you a better understanding of someone.

Nope, that's making a run at some kind of superiority thing, plain and simple.

If I was going to do that I wouldn't even try to couch it in terms of improving a relationship, I would be like "Hey lets get an IQ test together. It would be a pretty amusing thing to hang over your head, and $20 says I have you beat."

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Post #: 25

RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/27/2009 11:21:41 PM

Sunnyfey

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From: OK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elipsis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

See this whole thing is kind of like when my ex asked me to go get an IQ test done, so he could "better understand" the way I think. I told him I'd only go take a test if HE did also. Then I asked him if he REALLY wanted to know if I was smarter then him or not.

We never did go take those IQ tests.

Wow... how on earth would an IQ test, which I'm pretty sure just gives you an integer as a result, give you a better understanding of someone.

Nope, that's making a run at some kind of superiority thing, plain and simple.

If I was going to do that I wouldn't even try to couch it in terms of improving a relationship, I would be like "Hey lets get an IQ test together. It would be a pretty amusing thing to hang over your head, and $20 says I have you beat."

Well he is my ex for a reason

*hinthint...he was a stupid ass...and that's not saying anything about his intelligence*

< Message edited by Sunnyfey -- 9/27/2009 11:27:44 PM >

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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/27/2009 11:22:53 PM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elipsis

I'm actually not familiar with punctuated equilibrium (how embarrassing!!), but being familiar with Zeno's paradox and Pascal's wager would be attributed to knowledge, not intelligence.

Knowledge is the foremost facet of intelligence, if not nearly the entirety of it (with perhaps the only missing part being the ability to put knowledge into function).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elipsis

I think you already understand this based on your post, but it's an important distinction to make if this thread continues to go places so I'm going to reiterate in my own terms. When I was talking about intelligence in my first post I was talking about the ability to learn, the ability to conceptualize, and the ability to understand and work with difficult or abstract concepts. Someone who memorized the periodic table has crammed their head with knowledge but it doesn't really say much for their intelligence. Also it has already been pointed out that there are multiple kinds of intelligence... but this is my attempt to broadly define "intelligence."

Again, though...putting knowledge into function. Otherwise, what are we talking about? Innate intellectual talent? In which case we're still measuring the ability to absorb knowledge and efficiently put it into function.

Or are we attempting to define intelligence, for the sake of the topic, as an individuals speed and affinity for performing that process?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elipsis

Hmm... now can we make a thread about Pascal's wager and how ridiculous it is? You got me thinking about it again...

It's fun to see the degree to which someone thinks it's credible since it usually demonstrates how seemingly inversely proportional it is to the person's awareness that plenty of deities have existed (and do still exist), even long prior to their personal one.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 9/27/2009 11:23:11 PM >

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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/27/2009 11:24:58 PM

Sunnyfey

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piffty Elipsis

I have no idea what the fuck NZ is talking about, and I'm so not embarrassed by that.

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Post #: 28

RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/27/2009 11:41:40 PM

ranja

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I used to have a boyfriend... he was very jealous and he thought he was very smart, he thought he was much smarter than i was... i was ok to let him think this...
i think academically he was somewhat smarter than i was and also he could talk... i would always lose the argument... not because he was right and i was wrong but because he would talk in such a way to make a wrong right... he is a lawyer now... i believe he makes a lot of money getting criminals off the hook... well, that's gonna do society a lot of good now innit?

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Post #: 29

RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/27/2009 11:45:23 PM

HatesParisHilton

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anybody here ever been to the wildest and sexually nastiest party of their life, then find out it was designed and run by Mensa?

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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/28/2009 12:14:11 AM

Elipsis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elipsis

I think you already understand this based on your post, but it's an important distinction to make if this thread continues to go places so I'm going to reiterate in my own terms. When I was talking about intelligence in my first post I was talking about the ability to learn, the ability to conceptualize, and the ability to understand and work with difficult or abstract concepts. Someone who memorized the periodic table has crammed their head with knowledge but it doesn't really say much for their intelligence. Also it has already been pointed out that there are multiple kinds of intelligence... but this is my attempt to broadly define "intelligence."

Again, though...putting knowledge into function. Otherwise, what are we talking about? Innate intellectual talent? In which case we're still measuring the ability to absorb knowledge and efficiently put it into function.

Or are we attempting to define intelligence, for the sake of the topic, as an individuals speed and affinity for performing that process?

Oh now who went and moved this thread while I was in the shower...

Mostly the part in red, all of it. I'm attempting to define intelligence as the ability to acquire and intellectually manipulate knowledge to do things such as understand concepts and form new ideas and arguments - putting it into function as you called it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elipsis

Hmm... now can we make a thread about Pascal's wager and how ridiculous it is? You got me thinking about it again...

It's fun to see the degree to which someone thinks it's credible since it usually demonstrates how seemingly inversely proportional it is to the person's awareness that plenty of deities have existed (and do still exist), even long prior to their personal one.

Interesting. While I have a few criticisms of Pascal's wager... that's not one that I've ever thought of. (I've used it as a criticism of religion in general... but since Pascal's wager is a [heavily distorted] attempt to use mathematical theory... throwing in the existence of the possibility of multiple gods that aren't yours definitely fucks up the numbers game in an interesting way.)

I think rather than derail this thread on the topic any further I'll make a thread about it over in Politics and Religion tomorrow. I see your fondness for atheism so you'll be getting a cordial invitation.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 31

RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/28/2009 1:59:03 AM

sirsholly

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OP...you bring home the fact that intelligence does not negate ignorance.

Be careful as you walk your path of superiority. Should you stumble and fall i think you will find no one near to help you to your feet.

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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/28/2009 2:16:43 AM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
I have appreciated your presence on the boards during the time I have been active here. You usually seemed to have good insights and had the down to earth common sense that is often lacking. I am disappointed to see this kind of post from you, but cannot even begin to change your mind about any of it, nor is it something I could see investing time and effort in doing. Good luck to you and yours and I hope life treats you well and you have your happiness either as is or that it finds you along a different path.

lovingpet

Agreed.

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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/28/2009 2:21:50 AM

ranja

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Ha ha
Polls and Other Random Stupidity >> RE: Too smart or not smart enough?

Random stupidity indeed

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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/28/2009 2:34:58 AM

dreamofthemoon

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Hello, Ellipsis,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elipsis

You get tons of misspellings in a reply.
Your assumption
-Author can't spell, probably a result of a poor education.
Reality
-Author is a Ph. D. who has a really old keyboard with an unreliable backspace key. It's really just too frustrating to correct all those typos.

If the author is "smart" enough to hold a Ph. D, then wouldn't they be "smart" enough to either fix the backspace key or replace the keyboard altogether? Just saying.

To the OP, i agree with holly.

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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/28/2009 3:41:10 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
Hubby and I are extremely intelligent, apparently moreso then most are comfortable with.

I do have a positive association with your nick, but I cannot recall that you truly stand out from the gray masses, as a couple of other persons on the CM forums do. I do admit to having problems understanding posts that are in bold and cursive fonts, so I expect I would feel less stupid if you used ordinary, legible font. Usually I hide the posts of people that post in illegible font.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
Our interests are extremely diverse, ranging from bikes (Harleys... is there another kind out there?) to the theatre to gardening, home improvement,

Utterly boring stuff! People who collect snowflakes in my opinion are far more interesting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
history and a huge hangup on science.

Me too! Do you know that there are no identical snowflakes?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
You would think that someplace in that long list we would have something, even one small something, in common with someone else. Well, that isn't the case, obviously... It seems that even if we can connect with them on a few subjects that also interests them, the fact that they can't connect with us intellectually is too big a barrior for them to get past. And admittedly, it's tough for us to bridge as well. We can't bring ourselves to "hang out" with people of "average" intelligence. We can't get into the same type of television programming as them,

I get that. You are a dog or tulip and you are looking for another dog or tulip, as in your perception only those are compatible with you. You either do not know that cats and roses exist or you cannot imagine being compatible with them. Congruency is the lesser gold in the compatibility issue, though. The real gold is in complementarity. If I had a cat, I would not have an intellectual equal, but I do would have the best mousetrap ever created.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
Can you see yourself with someone that is most sincerely your intellectual superior?

No. There are lots of people with a much higher IQ than mine, but I am a low IQ supergenius and as such by definition I have no intellectual superiors: I am the supreme intelligence. I am very much aware, however, that there are other kinds of intelligences that have abilities that I utterly lack: theirs is complementary to mine.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
How about someone that is obviously no where near as smart as yourself?

A man does not require smarts in a woman. In fact, lots of people have superior abilities because they lack brains.

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Post #: 36

RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/28/2009 3:47:04 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

lots of people have superior abilities because they lack brains.

they do?

Hey..anyone wanna see my put my foot behind my head and stick my big toe in my ear?

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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/28/2009 3:49:05 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
It's fun to see the degree to which someone thinks it's credible since it usually demonstrates how seemingly inversely proportional it is to the person's awareness that plenty of deities have existed (and do still exist), even long prior to their personal one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey
I have no idea what the fuck NZ is talking about

Neither have I. Then again: I do know that the Divine exists and I do know that the incarnate gods did exist and may still exist, and that their many avatars still are among us, so Pascal's wager holds no interest for me.

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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/28/2009 3:50:06 AM

daintydimples

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I've had the rather dubious pleasure of working at a university in a college that was 90% genius engineers. Many of them were top researchers in their field of expertise.

Although I would consider these people my intellectual superiors, as a general rule they shared a lack of basic common sense and people skills that I found astounding.

Is this intelligence:

. . . . the ability to learn, the ability to conceptualize, and the ability to understand and work with difficult or abstract concepts.

Many would say it is. But if you literally do not have the sense to come out of the rain, what good does that do you?

I have often said I am attracted to people with big brains. But if that big brain cannot apply itself to practical and emotional concerns, my attraction swiftly begins to pall.

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RE: Too smart or not smart enough? - 9/28/2009 3:55:35 AM

KYsissy

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quote:

as a general rule they shared a lack of basic common sense and people skills that I found astounding.

As an engineer I can relate. I have run into many that can figure out ANYTHING mathematically but do not know which end of the hammer to hit a nail with.

I have also known quite a few highly intelligent people that did not benefit from a college education.

So which of the two groups is "intelligent"?

They both are in completely different ways.

(in reply to daintydimples)

Post #: 40

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