RE: Government health care is GREAT! (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 1:13:37 AM)

its paid by the insurance companies the same companies who cant seem to control costs.. yet can spend thousands and hundreds of thousands, lobbying against a US health care bill and pulling canadas health care system through the mud.

nice guys, really![8|]



Arrogance -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 1:14:39 AM)

If you look at the global statistics, America's healthcare system ranks below those with government run healthcare.

Maybe "gift4mistress" could be given the gift of actual information?



Brain -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 2:05:31 AM)

Democrats who voted against public option got $19 million from healthcare firms

http://rawstory.com/2009/09/democratic-opponents-of-public-option-faulted-for-health-industry-ties/



Arrogance -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 2:16:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Democrats who voted against public option got $19 million from healthcare firms

http://rawstory.com/2009/09/democratic-opponents-of-public-option-faulted-for-health-industry-ties/


And there we go. The problem isn't and will never be whether the democrats or republicans are evil... because both of them are corrupt and love to have their wallets fattened.



Ialdabaoth -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 3:05:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

As a Canadian I can say the story is total baloney. Obviously intentionally playing fool and trying to produce the bad results. You do not need a family doctor for the blood test. You need just a doctor. Obviously there needs to be a need for the test. There is an extensive network of labs in Canada and you do not spend more than 15 minutes to get the test done. One can easily produce similar  story for US (in addition you will pay a few thousand dollars too).  Try to go to a medical specialist (cardiologist, urologist and so on) in US rural areas. Usually you will wait for few weeks regardless how much insurance you have. Do these guys get paid by US medicine industry for doing this?


It doesn't matter whether it's true or not. It doesn't have to be true; it just has to be believed. And if it's discredited completely, all they have to do is make another one, and another. Even if every single one is discredited, the fact that there's so many will weigh public opinion and feed the imaginations of people who already wanted an excuse.



Louve00 -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 4:29:28 AM)

I didn't watch the youtube clip either.  But if we're talking about inadequate health care in Canada or how inadequate it might be after US health reform...here are just 2 articles of people dying in ER's while waiting hours upon hours to see a dr.  Not before health care reform.  But during the reign of our oh so wonderful system now.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/weissfoto/2662668894/  in NY

http://www.dallasfortworthinjurylawyer.com/2008/10/dallas_man_dies_while_waiting_at_parkland_er.html  in TX

So, what's so great about health care now?  I hear people ranting about how it will get worse.  I think it can already by pretty bad, now.  From ER patients being neglected and denied care to the point they die in the ER, to insurance refusing benefits to people who pay their premiums, buy the coverage to make sure they're covered, only to have them yanked when they need it most.  Any of these instances can apply to any one of us, at any time.

We need reform of some sort.



Moonhead -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 5:42:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

As a Canadian I can say the story is total baloney. Obviously intentionally playing fool and trying to produce the bad results. You do not need a family doctor for the blood test. You need just a doctor. Obviously there needs to be a need for the test. There is an extensive network of labs in Canada and you do not spend more than 15 minutes to get the test done. One can easily produce similar  story for US (in addition you will pay a few thousand dollars too).  Try to go to a medical specialist (cardiologist, urologist and so on) in US rural areas. Usually you will wait for few weeks regardless how much insurance you have. Do these guys get paid by US medicine industry for doing this?

The really hilarious thing about this argument is that a lot of Americans in the Northern States are fond of nipping across the border into Canada to get their prescriptions filled, as the Canadian medical system places limits on the pricing of medication, rather than assuming that the pateient's medical insurers will quite happily pay a stupid amount of money for something that costs less than a quid a gallon to manufacture.



Sanity -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 5:58:17 AM)


That's an example of the U.S. system subsidizing the Canadian system.

U.S. experts perform the extremely expensive research and testing to develop new treatments and the rest of the world gets "miracle cures" for cheap, while we in America pay for them. Maybe a way should be devised to charge Canada the true cost so Americans can benefit from the generosity of Canadians, instead of vise-versa.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
The really hilarious thing about this argument is that a lot of Americans in the Northern States are fond of nipping across the border into Canada to get their prescriptions filled, as the Canadian medical system places limits on the pricing of medication, rather than assuming that the pateient's medical insurers will quite happily pay a stupid amount of money for something that costs less than a quid a gallon to manufacture.




Politesub53 -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 6:20:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


That's an example of the U.S. system subsidizing the Canadian system.

U.S. experts perform the extremely expensive research and testing to develop new treatments and the rest of the world gets "miracle cures" for cheap, while we in America pay for them. Maybe a way should be devised to charge Canada the true cost so Americans can benefit from the generosity of Canadians, instead of vise-versa.



You really think thats true Sanity ?  You think all these US companies just invent stuff to help social health care  ? Do you think these companies give the stuff away without making huge profits ? Your quote "While we in America pay for them" doesnt seem true to me, given the vast profits drug companies make. Surely you are not insinuating US tax payers are funding drug company research ?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125417905531847679.html

http://www.aflcio.org/aboutus/thisistheaflcio/publications/magazine/0503_bigfix.cfm

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-hidden-truth-behind-drug-company-profits-1767257.html




Lucylastic -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 6:28:38 AM)

Dont forget that Canadians dont sue drug companies, where as american companies have a huge liability issues. If there is a case brought against them, the amounts given are much less than in the US(Merck recently paid out  4.85 BILLION in US settlements because of the vioxx balls up)
We also have a lower cost of living
We also have a cap on the amount that drug companies are allowed to charge
Provinces buy the bulk of medications at lower wholesale than the US.
Finally the USA isnt the only country to produce new and old drugs... Insulin was first made in toronto, until Eli  Lillly offered to make it in huge quantities(that was back in 1922)
Canada also doesnt allow drug companies to advertise on tv..... we save millions right there in advertising costs(direct to consumer selling)
So Imsorry, your point is lost on me as being more lies told you by the drug/insurance/healthcompanies
Lucy



lusciouslips19 -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 6:39:54 AM)

After the first few minutes where the guy in the video shows a closed clinic... Mercy me! A closed clinic on sunday? Funny, I know lots of clinics and doctors offices that are closed on sunday. Perhaps a call in to the answering service to contact a doctor for an emergency would be the smart thing. This video was too slanted from the get go to bother with.



Irishknight -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 6:48:15 AM)

I am all for a properly run health care system. The question is whether the current plan is it or not.

Having been exposed to the VA for years, I've seen instances of it being both a fantastic and completely shitty health care resource. The VA in Iowa City diagnosed my illness, treated it well and assigned me an extreme hottie as my primary care physician. The VA in Little Rock treated me like an imposition and left such a bad opinion that I almost didn't use the one in Iowa City. The VA in Des Moines and Poplar Bluff have been treating my father for years and other than a few things that could have happened anywhere they have been fine.

Due to my initial experiences, I tend to be skeptical about the US govt tending to health care. I'm not sure that they're qualified.



Sanity -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 8:19:53 AM)


None of the above, none of your strawmen resemble me. What I am saying is that because Americans do pay full cost, Canadians benefit.



Sanity -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 8:22:12 AM)


Take away the profit incentive, and why do the research. Why put up with all the risks.

The days of mom & pop brand snake oil are long gone, I'm afraid...



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 8:44:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

its paid by the insurance companies the same companies who cant seem to control costs.. yet can spend thousands and hundreds of thousands, lobbying against a US health care bill and pulling canadas health care system through the mud.


Hundreds of millions, actually. It costs a lot of money to organize all those spontaneous demonstrations and town hall meetings.



Sanity -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 9:14:47 AM)



Ever stop and ask yourself where the Dems and the unions get the money to do all that "grass roots" stuff?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Hundreds of millions, actually. It costs a lot of money to organize all those spontaneous demonstrations and town hall meetings.





ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 9:19:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Take away the profit incentive, and why do the research. Why put up with all the risks.



So the drug companies are selling their product to Canada at a loss? They're not making an adequate profit off of it? Damned socialists!



Lucylastic -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 9:20:35 AM)

we be sneaky bastages.........Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh Canadaaa



Moonhead -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 9:48:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

I am all for a properly run health care system. The question is whether the current plan is it or not.

Having been exposed to the VA for years, I've seen instances of it being both a fantastic and completely shitty health care resource. The VA in Iowa City diagnosed my illness, treated it well and assigned me an extreme hottie as my primary care physician. The VA in Little Rock treated me like an imposition and left such a bad opinion that I almost didn't use the one in Iowa City. The VA in Des Moines and Poplar Bluff have been treating my father for years and other than a few things that could have happened anywhere they have been fine.

Due to my initial experiences, I tend to be skeptical about the US govt tending to health care. I'm not sure that they're qualified.

Aren't most of the problems with the VA due to its funding having been heavily cut since it was set up, though? I know Bush (jr) and Reagan both cut its funding, though I'm not sure about the elder Bush or Clinton. McCain was talking about heavy cuts to it as well, which is hideous coming from somebody who spent seven or eight months of electioneering trading off his military record, frankly.



slutslave4u -> RE: Government health care is GREAT! (10/2/2009 9:54:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I watched the first 5 minutes and got bored by the idiocy and transparency of the film maker.

They shot this on a Sunday. Anybody tried getting non urgent health care in the USA on a Sunday afternoon recently? Does your doctor have office hours on Sunday at 1PM? If you go to a hospital emergency room in the US and declare, as this guy did, that his condition was not urgent then you can expect to wait while they treat everyone who is urgent just as thi sguy was made to wait in Canada.

So for the first 5 minutes the film maker showed a startling lack of knowledge about the US system or was assuming his audience was truly stupid.

Now this was posted by pajama.com which makes its money by assuming people are stupid enough to believe the lies they sling so it isn't terribly surprising.


Yes my doctor is open on Sundays, his office is open 7 days a week 9-9....it is a clinic, he owns it, actually he owns several throughout the area and all of them are 7 days a week 9-9......I have been seeing them since 1983, and even now I can walk in, either the front or the back door (I have been told if the parking lot if very busy simply walk in the back door) and be generally seen right away.



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