quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Actually, tis not victimology to call someone on their own B. S.. And besides, victimology is the purview of the left, not the right. That's why you need all the tax money you can lay your hands on...for your endless list of "victims". And you folks can keep it.

Justifying the actions of one’s group by shouting “you started it” is victim schtick.

quote:

 Saying things like “We don’t play the victim card, that’s what you lefties do” is playing the “I know you are but what am I” card, a classic strategy among six year olds throwing temper tantrums.

quote:

But I still have yet to see anyone address the fact that, whether it is the case or not, the GOP is viewed as being obstructionist past the point of acceptability.

quote:

  Let’s look at the numbers in this poll, for example:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/25/us/politics/25poll.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=politics

Take a look at some of the numbers concerning republicans. 76% of those polled do not believe the GOP has even advanced a clear health care plan. While Over half of those surveyed believe that democratic support for the health care proposal is based on party politics, nearly two thirds believe that republican opposition is based on party politics. In general polls are showing that more people believe that Obama is trying to work with the republicans than think the republicans are trying to work with Obama. General approval of GOP members of congress sits at about 30% and has languished there for months. In short, while Obama is falling in the polls, the republicans are not rising in them.

So rather than going back over the instances of left wing individuals who have done poor ole’ Bush wrong, when is some conservative going to speak of a way that they are going to change this perception? Or is it just the plan of the right to try to make Obama look worse, at any cost, rather than make themselves look better?

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

No...the answer is right there in front of you. Your choice as to whether or not to punch it in on your computer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Has there ever been a case where a significant number of americans celebrated the failure of such a endeavor before?

Has there been a case where an American President put himself, or the nation, in a position for this to occur?

Not on the level of the Olympics for sure, but would Vietnam retreat be representative? I'm old enough to remember people "celebrating" that failure; complete with video of soldiers coming back to signs labeling them "baby killers".

Even if what you say is correct, Merc, and it by no means is, you're saying that you have to reach back in history nearly 4 decades to find behavior that approaches that of the modern day republicans. That's something to be proud of. Further, the celebration was not over America losing the Viet Nam war. It was over us finally getting out of that war. I know you will refuse to see the difference but it does exist.

As for a closer examination of more recent history, I gave a number of examples of failure in the past administration and I still don't remember a lot of cheering because those bad things meant a change of majority party.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Has there ever been a case where a significant number of americans celebrated the failure of such a endeavor before?

Has there been a case where an American President put himself, or the nation, in a position for this to occur?

Not on the level of the Olympics for sure, but would Vietnam retreat be representative? I'm old enough to remember people "celebrating" that failure; complete with video of soldiers coming back to signs labeling them "baby killers".

Who said anything about the President? Every head of state who was in teh final four spoke this year just as they have every time this has come up during my lifetime, at least.

The right wing celebrated, and yes they celebrated I have the video and the archived blogs posts that prove it, that the city of Chicago didn't get the Olympics and all the economic stimulu sthat comes from such. I'm asking has that ever happened before?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Who is claiming they never had gone before. I know for a fact it was done for LA and Atlanta

A sitting President traveled half way around the world for a 5 minute speech in the middle of an economic meltdown. I don't remember that, and couldn't find any reference. Please point me in the right direction.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

his going to bid for the games, in the entire scheme of things is laughable or laudable as you wish, it is important that we focus frenetically on these far reaching and consequetial questions, instead of healthcare, infrastructure, peace, prosperity, rights, where our place in the globe will be (and where it should be) in light of the increasing strength of other nations, and our overall disappation, and other trivial concerns like that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

yeah, but yanno, there are a whole fuckload of areas of the globe still, where presidents don't get shoes thrown at them, and when they waltz in a room as President of the United States of America, it means a little something more than when Angelina Jolie flashes a tit.

now, Bushes frequent trips to Crawford, Nixons frequent trips to Florida, or Reagans frequent trips to California (all at taxpayers expense, and replete with entourages), or if you prefer, pick any democratic president, were never niggled about much...and they weren't trying to do any American business ......

So, this entire argument is petty and ridiculous in that light, is it not?

Ron

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ah, yes..........UK. I am all for the shouts and catcalls taking place in our chambers as well, maybe the dems and pubs up there wouldn't be such asshole buddies, and we could start a government in this country, rather than the rabid public rhetoric whilst porking each other in the coatroom.

a combined note from Benjamin D'Israeli and Gladstone

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

his going to bid for the games, in the entire scheme of things is laughable or laudable as you wish, it is important that we focus frenetically on these far reaching and consequetial questions, instead of healthcare, infrastructure, peace, prosperity, rights, where our place in the globe will be (and where it should be) in light of the increasing strength of other nations, and our overall disappation, and other trivial concerns like that.

Actually I have no problem with him going per se, and don't see the denial as "his failure". He has closer to ties to a city bidding than any former POTUS, and anyone who thinks that the time spent on AF1 couldnt be as productive as time in the Oval Office suffers from the same delusion that the left had when criticizing Bush's "vacations" in Crawford. Criticisms of the expense of the entire entourage that went, or of his massive ego and state of denial in thinking he could actually influence things in Chicago's favor is certainly relevant tho.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I dislike most politicians Ron, but Victorian Conservatives? Blech talk about setting the country back a hundred years....