lovingpet
Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
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~FR~
I didn't read the other responses to this thread simply because I think my gut response from the submissive position is what is most useful to the discussion. Overthinking it, filtering, and analyzing it will only take away from necessary layers of truth. This is only how it would go for me, but I know OP and I tend to view things similarly, so it may find some resonanse there.
Let's start here. There's a huge difference between choice and consent. A choice is a selection between two alternatives with the only real distinguishing factor being the consequences of it. Consent (provided we are going to manage for a moment to agree such a concept exists within the context of a M/s relationship) has more to do with accepting the consequences of taking and remaining on a given path. From my front stoop here, I would view Carol as already given that consent and it is no longer at issue. She chose to be with you in formal manners not once (your marriage), but twice (your M/s dynamic) and herein lies her consent (to be with you). Now, if being with you means being in a M/s dynamic, then what choices are there really? Short of terminating consent (no longer being with you), there really isn't one.
You want her to choose her slavery and take it up gladly. The only problem is that you have to do the same when it comes to being her Master AND you have to be the one to do it first. I don't see this as a time to be timid. This is when she has to see how much YOU want this...how much YOU care...how good YOU can be for her. She is submissive and used to following your lead. She will go where you go. If you lead to no dynamic, she will follow to no dynamic. If you lead to uncertainty, then she will follow to uncertainty. If you want to her to be a happy, stable, fulfilled slave, then you have to be a happy, stable, fulfilled Master. She will find her own solace in that.
I understand where she is. I understand how much you want her to choose this for herself and be finally at peace with who she is. This is what my partner wants for me as well, however, I have discussed before how I just can't seem to find any comfort in that concept of "slave" when it is applied to me, no matter how well I may fit it when it comes to him. He wants me at peace and not warring within myself. I also know that there are a lot of internal conflicts that have to be resolved in order for me to do that. As much as he may want that for me, and as much as you may want that for her, it is something that has to be a very deeply personal step. Now may be that time for her, but it well may not be. That doesn't necessarily mean you are about to lose the M/s portion of your relationship unless, of course, you plan to try to push her into an acceptance she isn't ready for and hold that as the standard by which you will determine if you are willing to continue or not. Will you still be satisfied with how things have been so far? Do you feel like things have gone to another level and she is lagging behind and even slipping down a notch or two? People aren't in sync all the time, no matter what they claim. Relationships take work. If they are good relationships, then they are worth every bit of it, but the fact remains the same.
As an aside completely unrelated to M/s, there is a very clinical condition (not like found in the DSM or anything, though) called culture shock and it follows very similar patterns to the grieving process with some different loop de loops just to keep things interesting. I would recommend looking into texts written to train humanitarian workers and others who are going to live deep within a new culture long term to understand it better, but I will outline it a little bit here. At first it is fresh, fun, and fascinating. The reality hasn't set in yet that all the little inconveniences that he/she is going through each day are going to continue indefinitely until either the person leaves or adapts by learning these skills (some as basic as knowing how to ask certain questions or knowing the right gesture, etc). Eventually, the "honeymoon" wears off and the person realizes that they have to deal with this same crap day in and day out and feel like it is never going to end, no light at the end of the tunnel. Deep frustration, feelings of isolation, and depression can set in. Then there comes a period of trying to get the best of both worlds. At this point in time, long term workers will often send a newsletter home wanting some special things from "home". They will also indulge heavily in the few parts of their new life that they find remotely fulfilling, as well as frequent places that remind them of home (this is why Americans must automatically find a McDonalds anywhere they go LOL). It's a bargaining, an ambivalence. It is through this bargaining process, though, that the person slowly eases into a whole new life. They start finding more and more things to enjoy and fewer and fewer barriers as they break them down so that they can have access to all these new, wonderful things. Before anyone knows it, the worker is sending over cool things FROM home!!!! This is just a rough sketch, but it is some idea how this process goes. I have been through it and I am sure others have as well. Some people do better getting on than others and this may be a wonderful time to step up and guide her through it all and help her acclimate to this new environment. I don't know how much of a cultural change is involved, but sometimes it is more than it appears, not to mention just the loss or distance placed on old social networks, supports, and family.
So now that my fast reply has taken me about an hour to compose, I think I'll shut up for now. Hope this helps. All my best to you and Carol!
lovingpet
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RE: To take or not? - 
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