RE: To take or not?

RE: To take or not? (Full Version)

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ranja -> RE: To take or not? (10/10/2009 12:59:56 PM)
i am glad things seem sorted... i still think you should go dancing though

leadership527 -> RE: To take or not? (10/10/2009 1:07:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ranja i am glad things seem sorted... i still think you should go dancing though laughs You know, it's not such a bad idea... all except for the fact that the hottest hot spot on this little island we now live on is a bar/marina. It is, however, karaoke night tonight and so maybe I'll take her out for booze and bad singing :)

kallisto -> RE: To take or not? (10/10/2009 1:21:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 It is, however, karaoke night tonight and so maybe I'll take her out for booze and bad singing :) Hey, the more booze the better the singing [:)]

mnottertail -> RE: To take or not? (10/10/2009 1:22:58 PM)
Yeah, a bottle of windsor and he will sound like Frank Sinatra, depending who is drinking it.

leadership527 -> RE: To take or not? (10/10/2009 1:44:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kallisto Hey, the more booze the better the singing [:)] Not only that, but you never know. If I liquor her up, I may get lucky!

MaamJay -> RE: To take or not? (10/11/2009 1:31:37 AM)
Great to meet Carol at last, and here's hoping that her decision will work out in factual application in their relationship. And that you'll both cut each other a bit of slack whilst working through the move! All the best Maam Jay aka violet[A]

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 10:12:17 AM)
~fast reply~ Just waves and blows a kiss (ok, one for each... Jeff, I know you get to say if she can have hers, but throw me a bone on this one. LOL). Change is such a difficult thing. For me, just seeing these two people bring such a comprehensive change before us, laying it out for us to see the progression and watch the wobble is a -gift-. You don't get to see this very often, so take note, folks. Even the brightest relationships have rocky periods. The thing about a successful relationship is that somehow, the people involved figure out a way to get through the mess, and at the end, they have a renewed sense of existence, and understand better both what brought them to the shoals, and a map of how to get through them the next time they arrive. Jeff and Carol, on those grounds alone (and aside from any personal feelings I have for you two), you are an inspiration. Dame Calla (Every word is an opinion -- if you don't like it, you're welcome to your own)

leadership527 -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 11:42:41 AM)
Thank you Dame Calla... once again, the reason that you, of all people here, get an honorific from me is obvious. In fact, the very thing you are talking about is exactly why I posted to start with. It's been my concern (actually, to be fair, it was Carol who pointed this out to me) that those of us who actually have working relationships frequently post the positive side of things. That, I have feared, leads others to believe in the fantasy that they will some day meet "the one" and happily ever after will tidily ensue. So given that there was a genuine, non-trivial issue on the table, I felt it a good idea to post it here in the hopes that other people, newer or less experienced, would see the reality of a relationship as opposed the fantasy. Clearly it was tossing pearls to the swine.... a mistake I will not repeat again. I now return you all to your fairy tale existences. Live long and prosper.

mnottertail -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 11:46:31 AM)
Well, not everyone was a swine, to be fair.......but there were a passel of hogs, a litter of pigs, a sounder of swines, no doubt. For some it was very instructive. I vote that many of those who read, and a very few of those who posted made this a very worthwhile thread.......but then I am optimistic, like that. Ron

lovingpet -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 12:14:13 PM)
I am sorry you have come to feel this way, Jeff. It seemed like early on in the thread, it was all really helping to know you had support and maybe gave you a bit of perspective on the whole situation even if the advice was off point in many cases. My guess is that this has more come from your feeling that people piled on Carol when she posted. I don't know if I agree that is how it all went. Some were kinder than others, but we all had the best interest of the both of you at heart. The reality is that people sometimes just LOVE dirt. I don't put very much of my own stuff out here for just that reason, but occasionally it is a matter of allowing those with a mind to wallow in the filth to do so in the hopes of gleaning a few useful tidbits when a problem is particularly complex or painful. We tell people all the time who post personal stuff here to take what is useful and leave the rest (especially the hurtful, nasty stuff). I hope you have taken away some good from this and your other thread. My personal apologies for any part I played, though I did my best to remain positive, open, and honest. No one can know the details of your situation like the two of you, and I am sure any one of us, me included, could venture off the path and cause unintentional hurt. If I did, I am sorry. I hope you will remain courageous enough to honor both the good times and the bad in your posts. I know I learned a lot as did others and did what you intended it to do for many who mistake good relationships for fairy tale endings. I know you paid a price you did not anticipate to do so, but I am sure many are grateful to you for taking that upon yourself for their benefit. My best to you and Carol as always. And, as always, my box is open. lovingpet

happylittlepet -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 12:44:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 Thank you Dame Calla... once again, the reason that you, of all people here, get an honorific from me is obvious. In fact, the very thing you are talking about is exactly why I posted to start with. It's been my concern (actually, to be fair, it was Carol who pointed this out to me) that those of us who actually have working relationships frequently post the positive side of things. That, I have feared, leads others to believe in the fantasy that they will some day meet "the one" and happily ever after will tidily ensue. So given that there was a genuine, non-trivial issue on the table, I felt it a good idea to post it here in the hopes that other people, newer or less experienced, would see the reality of a relationship as opposed the fantasy. Clearly it was tossing pearls to the swine.... a mistake I will not repeat again. I now return you all to your fairy tale existences. Live long and prosper. I guess 'we' can now decide individually who belongs in 'us' and 'them' groups? Who is a swine and who is not? Who has a working relationship, and who has not? Who lives in fantasy land and who doesn't? Who is new and less experienced and who deserves respect? I am sure 'we' can handle that [;)]. I sure hope your bitterness subsides soon.

mbes -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 1:11:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 Thank you Dame Calla... once again, the reason that you, of all people here, get an honorific from me is obvious. In fact, the very thing you are talking about is exactly why I posted to start with. It's been my concern (actually, to be fair, it was Carol who pointed this out to me) that those of us who actually have working relationships frequently post the positive side of things. That, I have feared, leads others to believe in the fantasy that they will some day meet "the one" and happily ever after will tidily ensue. So given that there was a genuine, non-trivial issue on the table, I felt it a good idea to post it here in the hopes that other people, newer or less experienced, would see the reality of a relationship as opposed the fantasy. Clearly it was tossing pearls to the swine.... a mistake I will not repeat again. I now return you all to your fairy tale existences. Live long and prosper. I hope that is only frustration talking. Your process in this thread wouldn't have worked well with me, but it didn't have to. It only had to work with Carol, and that it did. I still read it avidly, and checked in for updates, because it gave me a lot to think about. Those are my favorite kinds of threads. You don't know me, but my thanks go to you for sharing so personal a moment.

agirl -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 1:24:15 PM)
Gosh Jeff....I have to say that not everyone was a piggy-wig. It's really hard to get a REAL grasp of someone's personal situation, even if you think you have a sort of feel for it, when it's online and forum based. I've been here for five and a half years and I wouldn't post about the various real, live problems that M and I have weathered. The reason for that is that I don't want advice or opinions from people I don't know, that don't really know me or how my relationship works. If I post here, that's exactly what I'd get. I don't know what your expectations were, but despite people not having a full grasp of what your entire relationship is like, many, many people posted their goodwishes along with their own wonderings and misguided advice. And to be fair ......if you had stated your intent initially, I, for one , wouldn't have had much to say about it at all. The majority of people in long term successful relationships have weathered a squall or two and in some ways, that, in itself would have prompted them to comment. (Yep, me included). I'm sure your genuine, short-lived trouble will still have the effect you hoped for......Yours and Carol's words are out there for people to read through, and it's obviously caused people here to have a think, even if they haven't offered YOU anything positive. I think your pearls to swine and fairy-tale existences comment was unfortunate, a bit in bad taste and out of character. Regards, agirl

KnightofMists -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 2:03:20 PM)
quote: I think your pearls to swine and fairy-tale existences comment was unfortunate, a bit in bad taste and out of character. mmmmmmm possibily only out of character if you are one of the ones that built some fantasy perception with unrealistic expecations based on that perception. Maybe just maybe the comment is consistent with an aspect of character that you refuse to see. Kinda of like many that jump on this M/s bandwagon thinking it is all peaches and cream..... sometimes people need a reality check... but even then... they often rationalize and minimize it as um "out of character"

agirl -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 2:31:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: I think your pearls to swine and fairy-tale existences comment was unfortunate, a bit in bad taste and out of character. mmmmmmm possibily only out of character if you are one of the ones that built some fantasy perception with unrealistic expecations based on that perception. Maybe just maybe the comment is consistent with an aspect of character that you refuse to see. Kinda of like many that jump on this M/s bandwagon thinking it is all peaches and cream..... sometimes people need a reality check... but even then... they often rationalize and minimize it as um "out of character" I'm not, as it happens. It's not that I refuse to see an aspect.......it's not been evident to me from his forum based personality..and frankly that's all I have to go on. I'm only too aware ( I thought my post made that clear, actually).....and know, from my own experience that it's not all peaches and cream, as you put it, having lived it for a fair few years myself. It's certainly possible that I'm seeing more of Jeff than I have before..or have read before, yes. HE only knows ME from my forum persona in reverse. agirl

Mercnbeth -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 2:38:38 PM)
Leadership, I'd be less of who you believe I am if I didn't respond to your final comments. quote: those of us who actually have working relationships frequently post the positive side of things. That, I have feared, leads others to believe in the fantasy that they will some day meet "the one" and happily ever after will tidily ensue. Sometimes, it does... However, living the "fantasy" requires much more than wanting to do so and basing any 'ideal' on observation. You can get a general idea but the most important factor in observation is missing. Unless you are willing to look deeply into a mirror with a honest, at times brutal, eye; you won't achieve your goal. You can't go into a full time power exchange dynamic from either end of the flogger thinking you know who you are and what you want - you have to know with confidence and with as much doubt removed as possible. Difficult to do with brutal honesty but not impossible. Harder still is trusting your compatible partner to do the same and without agenda even if that agenda is altruistic. "I want to try this because he/she wants me to and I love her/him." It's only a matter of time for that mindset to fade and generate resentment. That paves the "rocky road". People confident in who they are and their partner, both living up to their commitment and responsibilities, avoid the 'rocks'; or trust that the other will be there serving as a shock absorber should they come up unexpectedly. Not perfect, never ridged, not even absolute; but exhibiting a confidence that blurs the borderline distinction of their unique persona. Ideally sacrificing it for the benefit of what becomes more important than their individualism - their relationship. I'd agree, that sounds like a fairy tale; living it doesn't convince me otherwise. Finding a partner who has complimentary desires, fantasies, and goals is difficult. It's a matter of compatibility, timing, experience, access, and fate. I'd call it 'luck' but fate accounts for the reality of negative events contributing just as much as positive ones in my personal life experience. After, conservatively, keeping an eye open for that aforementioned 'one', for 20 years the only thing I was convinced of was she didn't exist. I maintained that belief right up until the second I met beth. So I, and the resulting relationship, represent "fantasy"? quote: I now return you all to your fairy tale existences. You say that like it's a bad thing! Best of luck to you in overcoming your relationship's current struggles.

windchymes -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 3:00:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Yeah, a bottle of windsor and he will sound like Frank Sinatra, depending who is drinking it. The Karaoke Courage Juice is what we called it. Sounds like a fun evening to me!

windchymes -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 3:03:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Well, not everyone was a swine, to be fair.......but there were a passel of hogs, a litter of pigs, a sounder of swines, no doubt. For some it was very instructive. I vote that many of those who read, and a very few of those who posted made this a very worthwhile thread.......but then I am optimistic, like that. Ron Not to mention a few boars.....[8\|]

NuevaVida -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 3:42:52 PM)
~ Fast Reply ~ It can't possibly be easy to deal with some very complicated and intimate relationship stresses and simultaneously being criticized by outsiders for the way you are dealing. It was brave to put all of this out there, as you have shined a light on the struggles that can and do occur in even the most loving and well intended relationships. And seriously, who handles relationship uncertainty perfectly? I am glad to have seen Carol introduce herself, and I am glad to see you both focused on each other as you are. I wish you both the best outcome.

DemonKia -> RE: To take or not? (10/12/2009 3:46:07 PM)
Jeff, this prompted a thought out of my head: Sometime in the last coupla decades I've gotten focused on a meme of 'my vulnerabilities are my strengths' (long, not-so-relevant story omitted) . . .. . This combined with my 'experiments' in 'extreme honesty' with the result that I've been practicing a lot at revealing my foibles, failures, & etc to people close & not so .. . . . . I've noticed some things about this process. The number one thing is that reactions generally can be parsed into two 'camps' -- those who respond with an attitude I perceive as 'open to intimacy' -- they share their vulnerabilities & etc . .. . & the other 'camp' are those who kinda use my revealed flaw as a 'springboard' to demonstrate how they don't have that kinda problem, how wonderful they are in comparison, or similar. Frequently this is entangled with 'attack' stuff, too . . . . . That is, I've found that openly revealing that I'm a bitch or an ass, or whatever, can become a justificatory process for trying to attack me around my revealed vulnerability & to engage in other 'ad hom' style underminings of the content of what I have to say . . . . . Which has in turn become one of those very Nietszchean 'that which does not kill me' things . . . . So. Why? . . . lol I've found immense personal, emotional, & social power in tapping into these processes . . . . . I can be inordinately thin-skinned (from my perspective) & this is part of seeking out 'toughening' experiences . . . . . But mostly, I know that there are people who have seen me as a 'model of behavior' (not just the offspring, either) & I'm convinced that 'playing perfect' & the accompanying resistance / reluctance to own 'wrongness', 'misbehavior', 'problems', 'foibles', & so on, is one of the 'big problems' of the world. It's not far from there to see this as a way I can contribute, I can model how to own one's stupid shit, lol . . . . . . quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 ...It's been my concern (actually, to be fair, it was Carol who pointed this out to me) that those of us who actually have working relationships frequently post the positive side of things. That, I have feared, leads others to believe in the fantasy that they will some day meet "the one" and happily ever after will tidily ensue. So given that there was a genuine, non-trivial issue on the table, I felt it a good idea to post it here in the hopes that other people, newer or less experienced, would see the reality of a relationship as opposed the fantasy. Clearly it was tossing pearls to the swine.... a mistake I will not repeat again. I now return you all to your fairy tale existences. Live long and prosper.

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