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RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 2:47:27 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Extreme BDSM & Ethical fighting!!!!! Available in DVD......only three payments of...


5 euro's
on my paypall account will be fine
and we throw a party for every one participating in this thread


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 2:51:33 PM   
SirJohnD


Posts: 6
Joined: 1/28/2005
Status: offline 		Before entering into a TPE relationship, it is usual to go through a process of Negotiation. The potential Master and the potential slave decide how they will run their life together. This is because the fantasy of TPE and the reality are, of course, usually very different. During this phase, all aspects the intended lifestyle are discussed including what is excluded. Once this Negotiation is over, Contracts are signed and the slave has no more say. But she is safe is the knowledge that the relationship will be maintained based on the Contracts which themselves are based on the Negotiation.

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 2:56:02 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Negotiations and contracts only safeguard based on the character or lack thereof of the parties.  Surely, this is good reason to select worthwhile, trustworthy partners, but there is nothing ever safe in surrender. 

lovingpet

(in reply to SirJohnD)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:00:12 PM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

Personally, I question our society's competence in being able to define concepts like 'sanity' in a useful way. But we all know what a precious fucking snowflake I am, so...


yeehaa !!

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:03:15 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Good points, those last coupla posts (SirJohnD & lovingpet) . . . . .

& the M/s relationship may only unfold after the participants have gotten to know each thru a more limited D/s relationship, or they may deliberately choose a path that goes from a milder D/s relationship to a more severe M/s . .. . . Or other variants . . . .

It's sometimes said that Hinduism sees 6+ billion paths to 'god'; I sometimes see that BDSM has 6+ billion paths to ecstasy / satisfaction / whatever is being sought that way . . . . . lol . . . . . I run most everything kink thru that contemplative filter . . . .

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:04:45 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I suppose I am unusual then. There is no negotiation, there is a phase where the girl gets to know the kind of man I am. If she begs my collar, then she should know the kind of man that I am. At that point she gives consent, and I determine everything else after wards. If she wishes to exercise her legal rights, she can do so when walking out the door. Even when she is being punished and screaming for me to stop, it does not remove consent, in my opinion or hers it is just emotional outburst.

I do not negotiate with property or slaves. When I do negotiate, it is never from a point of weakness. If I must negotiate from a point of weakness, I call it what it is, and that is appeasement.

I do agree that many slaves get themselves into things with a fantasy in mind. I had one of those once, and she went the way of the door.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SirJohnD

Before entering into a TPE relationship, it is usual to go through a process of Negotiation. The potential Master and the potential slave decide how they will run their life together. This is because the fantasy of TPE and the reality are, of course, usually very different. During this phase, all aspects the intended lifestyle are discussed including what is excluded. Once this Negotiation is over, Contracts are signed and the slave has no more say. But she is safe is the knowledge that the relationship will be maintained based on the Contracts which themselves are based on the Negotiation.


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to SirJohnD)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:14:12 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah, I don't really go in for the whole negotiation and contract thing either.  Not only do I really and truly NOT want to be negotiated with, but I also don't see much point in meaningless documents that only have any significance, and even that only to those involved with little use legally or otherwise. 

I also think negotiations takes away from the process of rolling up one's sleeves and really deeply getting to know someone.  If all it is is a banter back and forth of this activity yes or no, then I don't think a whole lot of insight is ever gained.  He has to be willing to take the time and feel out for himself where my edges are and understand them fully.  I have to truly come to trust him and know what kind of mettle he is truly made of and that comes by riding through many different situations and expectations, successes and failures, and more.  Contracts are a shorthand in my opinion and do not translate all the rich detail significant courtship reaps.

lovingpet 

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:19:56 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		I'm with you there Orion, if the two people starting the relationship spend time getting to know each other there should be no need for negotiation anyway.

_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:23:09 PM   
MartinP


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
I have not as yet had to backhand my girl, but she knows it is not out of the realm of possibilities if needed.



Orion, so you did not split her lips after all? Nice back-pedaling!

If it is so easy to understand why slapping a defenseless woman is right (and yes, this woman is defenseless to you if not to others) , it must also be easy to explain it. Why don't you give it a try?

It would surely establish you as the Man and me as a poor jerk. Something that your authority arguments will never achieve.
Now this is a chivalreque gantlett thrown. But I am afraid it will remain on the soil.

As for you lady, I am sorry to say, but her pictures do not show her with an good BMI, I may be mistaken, but it looks to me like anorexy which is not an insult but a treatable disease, like walking with a white cane and black glasses lead me to think of a person as blind. Is calling the later "blind" an insult? OK, for the sake of political correctness, I will correct it to visually-challenged, and she is gravitationnaly-challenged. Happy now?

Speaking of her, I checked all posts under her profile, and all six are signed "Orion", not "Orion's property". I may not like your ways, but at least you are honest. Thus I suppose that a direct rebuttal of her is out of question. Let us assume that it would be beneath her dignity.


_____________________________

Martin P

I remember

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:27:33 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		MartinP, I understand that you are grieving because of the end of your relationship.  However, just because your own relationship is over -- and a woman chose a job over you, despite being in your collar -- it does not follow that all other D/s relationships are unhealthy.

You might learn more if you attacked less.

I hope you feel better soon.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:34:47 PM   
MartinP


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

It is good to have your own opinion.
I respect that.
But soemtimes different opinions get their ass kicked if you are the minority.
Surely most of us have been there.

Take a deep breath and let it be....you still have your opinion.....and a fight less

next time it is someone else



..perhaps I am, not the right one to tell this.


Justme,

I hope you will not mind if I do not follow your reasonnable advice.

Best regard,

_____________________________

Martin P

I remember

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:36:52 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		FR - It's incredible that some people don't even recognise the map of Corsica. Just sayin'.

_____________________________



(in reply to daintydimples)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:42:32 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
I have not as yet had to backhand my girl, but she knows it is not out of the realm of possibilities if needed.



Orion, so you did not split her lips after all? Nice back-pedaling!

If it is so easy to understand why slapping a defenseless woman is right (and yes, this woman is defenseless to you if not to others) , it must also be easy to explain it. Why don't you give it a try?

It would surely establish you as the Man and me as a poor jerk. Something that your authority arguments will never achieve.
Now this is a chivalreque gantlett thrown. But I am afraid it will remain on the soil.

As for you lady, I am sorry to say, but her pictures do not show her with an good BMI, I may be mistaken, but it looks to me like anorexy which is not an insult but a treatable disease, like walking with a white cane and black glasses lead me to think of a person as blind. Is calling the later "blind" an insult? OK, for the sake of political correctness, I will correct it to visually-challenged, and she is gravitationnaly-challenged. Happy now?

Speaking of her, I checked all posts under her profile, and all six are signed "Orion", not "Orion's property". I may not like your ways, but at least you are honest. Thus I suppose that a direct rebuttal of her is out of question. Let us assume that it would be beneath her dignity.



Are you just so very focused on your own opinion and on the bad, evil men who prey on poor, helpless women to bother to hear what one of those "poor, helpless women" tried to tell you?  I said, I ADORE being handled in just such a way.  How I lust for a good backhand at this very moment...............

Anyway, if you want to rationally discuss your position, you pretty much have to back it up not just with the menfolk, but with the womenfolk who happen to agree with them.  You are going to have to explain to me why I am wrong to enjoy what I enjoy and that I am incorrect about my interpretation of my partner's actions.  I see being beat bloody by someone I adore and am in submission to as a delicious act of love, lust, and adoration of his treasure.  Feel free to fill in the gaps I am apparently missing.

lovingpet

(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:42:57 PM   
MartinP


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

and a woman chose a job over you, despite being in your collar


RedMagic,

I thank you very much for your sympathy, I had a hard time convincing her that this job opportunity had to be taken.

Kind regards



_____________________________

Martin P

I remember

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:50:19 PM   
MartinP


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
I have not as yet had to backhand my girl, but she knows it is not out of the realm of possibilities if needed.



Orion, so you did not split her lips after all? Nice back-pedaling!

If it is so easy to understand why slapping a defenseless woman is right (and yes, this woman is defenseless to you if not to others) , it must also be easy to explain it. Why don't you give it a try?

It would surely establish you as the Man and me as a poor jerk. Something that your authority arguments will never achieve.
Now this is a chivalreque gantlett thrown. But I am afraid it will remain on the soil.

As for you lady, I am sorry to say, but her pictures do not show her with an good BMI, I may be mistaken, but it looks to me like anorexy which is not an insult but a treatable disease, like walking with a white cane and black glasses lead me to think of a person as blind. Is calling the later "blind" an insult? OK, for the sake of political correctness, I will correct it to visually-challenged, and she is gravitationnaly-challenged. Happy now?

Speaking of her, I checked all posts under her profile, and all six are signed "Orion", not "Orion's property". I may not like your ways, but at least you are honest. Thus I suppose that a direct rebuttal of her is out of question. Let us assume that it would be beneath her dignity.



Are you just so very focused on your own opinion and on the bad, evil men who prey on poor, helpless women to bother to hear what one of those "poor, helpless women" tried to tell you?  I said, I ADORE being handled in just such a way.  How I lust for a good backhand at this very moment...............

Anyway, if you want to rationally discuss your position, you pretty much have to back it up not just with the menfolk, but with the womenfolk who happen to agree with them.  You are going to have to explain to me why I am wrong to enjoy what I enjoy and that I am incorrect about my interpretation of my partner's actions.  I see being beat bloody by someone I adore and am in submission to as a delicious act of love, lust, and adoration of his treasure.  Feel free to fill in the gaps I am apparently missing.

lovingpet


Lovingpet,

as much as would like to discuss with you the submissive aspect of the matter, I am currently focused on the dominant side. It is one thing to like being "beat bloody", it is quite another to beat somebody else bloody, especially when this person is not able of responding in kind.

I am sure you understand me.

_____________________________

Martin P

I remember

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:54:30 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP
I had a hard time convincing her that this job opportunity had to be taken.

So you sabotage your own relationships, in addition to denigrating the relationships of others.  That behavior belongs in the "red flag" thread.

What you seem to be missing in this discussion of "Ethics" is the fundamental ethic of "commitment to, and mutual responsibility for, each other."  If she committed to you, and valued that commitment above a certain form of employment, then it was you who failed the relationship, not her.  Other men and women would hold the relationship as the most important thing.  That doesn't mean they are sick.  Perhaps they are healthier than you.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:55:12 PM   
MartinP


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
Jealous? Aye, I was born with more than a silver spoon in my mouth and I still make my own way on my own merits and defend what is mine and family including extended family spread about the world. chivalrous effete, hell yes. Prey tell, what is your claim to achievement?



You were borne with more than a silverspoon in the mouth? Can I ask in which orifice they did put the rest of the silverware?

_____________________________

Martin P

I remember

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 3:59:09 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		No Martin you are focused on saving women who DO...NOT...NEED....SAVING Really.....honestly....scouts honor.  We are fine and capable of defending ourselves. If we need your help we will ask....

ETA unless the helpless thing will get me lots and lots of sex in which case never mind the above post


< Message edited by zephyroftheNorth -- 10/7/2009 4:00:37 PM >

_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 4:05:59 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP
Lovingpet,

as much as would like to discuss with you the submissive aspect of the matter, I am currently focused on the dominant side. It is one thing to like being "beat bloody", it is quite another to beat somebody else bloody, especially when this person is not able of responding in kind.

I am sure you understand me.

Now I understand.

So you're all good with Me unleashing My sadistic desires on My boy because it's something we both want.  However, if I were a male, I would suddenly be wrong for doing the same thing in a hetro dynamic.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/7/2009 4:07:35 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP
Lovingpet,

as much as would like to discuss with you the submissive aspect of the matter, I am currently focused on the dominant side. It is one thing to like being "beat bloody", it is quite another to beat somebody else bloody, especially when this person is not able of responding in kind.

I am sure you understand me.

Now I understand.

So you're all good with Me unleashing My sadistic desires on My boy because it's something we both want.  However, if I were a male, I would suddenly be wrong for doing the same thing in a hetro dynamic.



But...but...but you're a GIRLIE LadyP you couldn't POSSIBLY hit as hard *runs for the hills*


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 100
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