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RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 7:06:55 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Ooooooooo evil, pure evil.....I like the way your mind works LaT



Thank you very much! I do also.........now I just need to find a cute little slave that likes it even more!


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 7:54:19 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1


So you sabotage your own relationships, in addition to denigrating the relationships of others.  That behavior belongs in the "red flag" thread.

What you seem to be missing in this discussion of "Ethics" is the fundamental ethic of "commitment to, and mutual responsibility for, each other." 



Nope, I take my responsibilities, and when I see that my SO has what looks pretty well like a once-in-the-life chance professionaly, I bite the bullet and do what I think is the right thing. Maybe I am wrong, maybe she will be fired next month. Pardon me if I do not want to stand between her and her dreams just for the sake of an "orthodox" BDSM relationship.

We all follow our onw pathes, but they always cross twice...

As for denigrating men who slap women in the face. I do not, I just find them disgusting, literraly, like spinatch.
And you have just displayed your ignorance..."I do not denigrate men who slap women in the face..." and then you do just that with your statement of "I just find them disgusting...".

Allow me to educate you just a bit.  See, this thread is for people who engage in D/s and BDSM, much the way the entire site is.  BDSM involves sadism and masochism (that is what the last two letters stand for)  Now then...sadism brings pleasure, usually sexual in nature, to the GIVER of pain and/or other sensations while masochism brings pleasure, usualy sexual in nature, to the RECEIVER of pain.  Now then, that covers the last two letters of BDSM.  Now Martin, the second letter of BDSM is D and that stands for DISCIPLINE.  Discipline can be psychological, emotional or physical in nature.  Backhanding a recalcitrant submissive/slave...spanking a recalcitrant submissive/slave...having a recalcitrant submissive/slave write "I will behave" 1000 times on a blackboard while on their knees on a stool...these are all forms of discipline.  The first letter in the equation is for Bondage.  Hopefully, I don't need to explain that to you?

The funny thing Martin?  Those that engage in this behavior do so by mutual agreement.  Now, as was mentioned in the original post, there line may be...hell, appears to be...wayyyyyyyyy different than yours but telling a man that he is a coward for striking a "defenseless" woman makes me begin to wonder just how much you are into BDSM.  If you are not, that is fine.  But even a basic understanding of the collarme tenets should give you an insight that many on here practice just these things.  I have to wonder why, if you do not, you would wander onto a thread such as this.  I also wonder why you cannot back up your denigration with anything more substantive than more denigration and snide insults?

(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 8:15:34 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		MartinP, I just looked at Orion'sproperty's pictures, and she looks willowy, but not underweight. BMI isn't really a hard and fast rule - it depends a lot on skeletal frame and musculature. I'm *drastically* and unhealthfully underweight at anything under 115, (I'm not anorexic, but lose weight easily when the weather is hot, or if I'm sick or stressed), and I'm 5'5". Some women who are taller than me are perfectly healthy at that weight.

I happen to really enjoy having my face slapped, and being punched, kicked, etc. It's perfectly possible to do it lightly enough not to cause any harm, and it feels wonderful! I don't see it as degrading in the slightest. There's a huge difference between someone unconsentually hauling off and smacking someone full-force during an argument, when they lose their temper, and him gazing into my eyes, patting and caressing my cheek briefly, then hitting me sharply enough to be loud, but in a way that makes me melt.

(in reply to justagirlinzh)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 8:21:22 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Ooooooooo evil, pure evil.....I like the way your mind works LaT



Thank you very much! I do also.........now I just need to find a cute little slave that likes it even more!



You're welcome LaT...........does she need to be pre-evil or do you prefer a DYI project?


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 8:30:58 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		As long as there is a willingness to learn..........I am flexible.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 8:39:38 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		I suppose it's more fun to "corrupt" a slave anyway......

_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 8:41:08 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		There are pros and cons to both, from my experience.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 9:02:50 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

But...but...but you're a GIRLIE LadyP you couldn't POSSIBLY hit as hard *runs for the hills*

Care for a second opinion on that one, Zephyr? I even have pics taken the next day that show what a "girlie" swing LadyP has
*running was a GOOD idea!*



No thanks Wyld, somehow I believe LadyP is capable of more than a "girlie" swing. And yes running was a good thing self preservation lives strong in me


All this talk of running is making Me understand why most prefer female bottoms in high heels.  LOL.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 9:08:05 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP

As for denigrating men who slap women in the face. I do not, I just find them disgusting, literraly, like spinatch.


if the man is clearly the antichrist for doing this. i'm curious if the woman is culpable or is she merely viewed as a victim of his antics instead?

porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to justagirlinzh)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 9:17:42 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

But...but...but you're a GIRLIE LadyP you couldn't POSSIBLY hit as hard *runs for the hills*

Care for a second opinion on that one, Zephyr? I even have pics taken the next day that show what a "girlie" swing LadyP has
*running was a GOOD idea!*



No thanks Wyld, somehow I believe LadyP is capable of more than a "girlie" swing. And yes running was a good thing self preservation lives strong in me


All this talk of running is making Me understand why most prefer female bottoms in high heels.  LOL.




There is that, yes LadyP, then again sometimes it's just for the amusement of watching clutzes like me stumble around in them LOL


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 9:23:10 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples
The issue is, how far is too far?


I don't dig chasing pidgeons or fun.
I do find groovy a knife up my cunt.

the.dark.
(.hasthefeelinganotherconsenthreadisonthehorizon.)


This is Darcy

They don't call me Mack for nothin'


lols ... love you both ... though now I do have most of a mouthful of tea across my monitor


Beer on the monitor for me.....LOL


_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 9:36:55 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirJohnD

quote:

I don't really go in for the whole negotiation and contract thing

That's the beauty of BDSM. It is such a broad 'church'. A lot of people think the acronym stands just for Bondage Discipline Sadism Masocism but, of course, it's much more 'poly' than that incorporating Master slave Dominant submissive and so on.

Personally, I get a lot of pleasure from the Negotiation phase. A TPE relationship is also a tpe RELATIONSHIP and while I want my slaves to be very feminine and very submissive, I also want them to make me laugh, have a brain and be interesting people in their own right. A TPE relationship is meant to last and that will only happen if you get more out of each other than just 'scenes'.

I also enjoy the formality of BDSM. I get a lot of pleasure designing Contracts, drawing up sets of Rules and Protocols and going through Contract Signing and Collaring Ceremonies.

Respecting Protocols also floats my boat. We went to a new club recently and my slave was the only one not sitting on furniture. Indeed, she was the only one on a leash! What's that about?

Each to their own.


I hope you brought a towel for her to sit on, a public floor is disgustingly dirty.

And what the lack of protocol at this club is about, is to show you that your assumption that every club in the nation is high protocol is incorrect. It shows that you fell down on the job by making assumptions instead of contacting the club organizers and asking what style the club is.

You want a high protocol club, organize one. Assuming you can find enough members with sufficient discretionary income to do so.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to SirJohnD)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 9:55:27 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirJohnD

Respecting Protocols also floats my boat. We went to a new club recently and my slave was the only one not sitting on furniture. Indeed, she was the only one on a leash! What's that about?


with all due respect, i rarely see this in the private clubs i attend. i can only recall an isolated incident where the submissive was seated on a rug between her dominant's legs. i attribute this to the fact that there was no place for her to sit in the area they were conversing.

i have never felt compelled to find a spot on the floor either, and i prefer a stringent protocol in my relations. i believe this is where common sense must overrule. it is possible i may elect to do differently in a private home instead. but i needn't display my submissiveness in this manner. i don't believe lowering myself to the floor brings attention to my slavery. but how i conduct myself, my speech, and everything in between that will echo loudest.

porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 10:00:51 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirJohnD

quote:

I don't really go in for the whole negotiation and contract thing

That's the beauty of BDSM. It is such a broad 'church'. A lot of people think the acronym stands just for Bondage Discipline Sadism Masocism but, of course, it's much more 'poly' than that incorporating Master slave Dominant submissive and so on.

Personally, I get a lot of pleasure from the Negotiation phase. A TPE relationship is also a tpe RELATIONSHIP and while I want my slaves to be very feminine and very submissive, I also want them to make me laugh, have a brain and be interesting people in their own right. A TPE relationship is meant to last and that will only happen if you get more out of each other than just 'scenes'.

I also enjoy the formality of BDSM. I get a lot of pleasure designing Contracts, drawing up sets of Rules and Protocols and going through Contract Signing and Collaring Ceremonies.

Respecting Protocols also floats my boat. We went to a new club recently and my slave was the only one not sitting on furniture. Indeed, she was the only one on a leash! What's that about?

Each to their own.


I hope you brought a towel for her to sit on, a public floor is disgustingly dirty.

And what the lack of protocol at this club is about, is to show you that your assumption that every club in the nation is high protocol is incorrect. It shows that you fell down on the job by making assumptions instead of contacting the club organizers and asking what style the club is.

You want a high protocol club, organize one. Assuming you can find enough members with sufficient discretionary income to do so.

Agreed, to a point.

Being a high protocol person Myself, any time that I go to a club or event that isn't specified as such, I know there's going to be a mix.  This is especially true if it's a public venue.  For example, you're going to see a much higher number of folks in high protocol at a leather event than you are your run of the mill BDSM club.  Unless it is completely impractical, My protocols remain the same.  I figure if I can accept that some people are more laid back, others can accept that I'm not.

As for the towel for the floor, some places absolutely are cleaner than others.  We've kept a couple of small, thin airline blankets for that specific purpose.  They take up very little room in the toy bag and have worked out to be a great solution.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 10:51:54 AM   
MartinP


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline 		Orion,

if you equate understanding with accepting your position, you can forget it.
Nevertheless, I must recognize your honest effort to make your standpoint understandable to me. I respect that.
I gained some insights but our standpoints cannot be reconciled because they are based on morals and not logic.

After all, what is wrong with slapping a women enough to split her lip? To be precise, what is wrong with hitting a woman who at that moment cannot defend herself, and is anyhow in such emotional dependence that she is no position to retaliate, or go away. We are not speaking here of some play or scene, the objective of the man is here not to give to the women some pleasure, but to force his will upon her, show his supremacy.

What can be wrong with using a time-honored method to remind a woman of her place?

There is the pain she experiences, which not giving her any pleasure but plainly hurts, the danger of lasting injuries, there is the fear, the loss of self-esteem which will make her more insecure and unhappier.

For what? You said you got one serious beating once, if it was a real bad one, the kind where you cannot stand anymore and just hope the other guys will get tired, because you cannot defend yourself. How did you feel afterward? Is this the kind a feeling a person who trust you should experience?

I find it repulsive because in my experience, boys and men using their brute force on smaller, weaker ones are weak and wicked in their mind (Orion, I would like to exclude you from this generalisation, if you do not mind). Remember the bullies at school? Not really appealing personalities. But a master doing the same to his girlfriend is suddenly a good guy? I doubt it.



_____________________________

Martin P

I remember

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 10:56:22 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Are you really as slow as your words are conveying or are you simply afraid to concede that your way is not everyone else's way?

There are A LOT of things discussed on these forums, done by others, that I would never do.........for whatever reason. That does not negate that they can be done in a healthy happy relationship........whatever that particular relationship may be.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 10/8/2009 11:00:55 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 10:59:11 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		cmail LT

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 11:02:18 AM   
MartinP


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline 		Andalusite,

the face slapping in the post of Orion, which he meant probably rather as an example, was not some play but a violent correction. If I were against slapping for a common pleasure, I would also be against spanking etc. Which I am not.

What I cannot tolerate is the use of debasing force in a relationship, "consensual" or not. Play is completely different matter.

_____________________________

Martin P

I remember

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 11:08:59 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP

As for denigrating men who slap women in the face. I do not, I just find them disgusting, literraly, like spinatch.


if the man is clearly the antichrist for doing this. i'm curious if the woman is culpable or is she merely viewed as a victim of his antics instead?

porcelaine




Not so fast there, I lOVE spinach, and you may not insult the kink of another on this board.....withdraw that statement!!!!!!

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 11:52:22 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP

Andalusite,

the face slapping in the post of Orion, which he meant probably rather as an example, was not some play but a violent correction. If I were against slapping for a common pleasure, I would also be against spanking etc. Which I am not.

What I cannot tolerate is the use of debasing force in a relationship, "consensual" or not. Play is completely different matter.
Ahhhhhhhh but that adds another crux to the matter, does it not?  Debasing force.  Have you stopped to consider that while in your mind this may be debasing force,  that in Orion's or others' cases, it may not be?  Have you stopped to consider that indeed it may be and both the one giving and the one receiving the "debasing force" are O.K. with that?

It's ironic you should mention fear and loss of trust.  One reason I have not struck my submissives in this manner is my own fear of lasting physical damage and their certainty that for me to strike them that way would cause the same mistrust and fear that you spoke of.  However, one was not adverse to the fact that when I wanted her attention, her face was grabbed harshly and held very close to mine.  Another understood that I had no problem putting her in a corner...and escorting there...and leaving her there tied and gagged for awhile, no matter how the tears flowed, as I lectured he.  Most submissives I've ever spoken to were well aware that Discipline meant more than training and that errancy on their part could well result in physical/psychological/emotional measures taken by their dominants.

(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 140
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