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RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 11:54:20 AM   
MartinP


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Are you really as slow as your words are conveying or are you simply afraid to concede that your way is not everyone else's way?



Dear Kitty,

Of course, I see that a rather vocal group is not sharing my opinions. So what? Even if the immense majority of the people on this forum, who rarely or not at all post where all thinking like you. It would just prove that a surprising number of persons can be wrong while a single individual is right.

And no, slapping a woman (outside of plays as I said ealier) is not an acceptable behavior, in any circunstances.


_____________________________

Martin P

I remember

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 12:00:46 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP
And no, slapping a woman (outside of plays as I said ealier) is not an acceptable behavior, in any circunstances.



OK, that's your ethics, you have the courage of your convicitons, good enough; but I would say with a title of 'Extreme BDSM & Ethics' there is not going to be a whole lot of 'work' outside of 'play' so 'play' would be the circumstance, unless I am much mistaken.

So, in truth, we're ALL good with it.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 12:07:27 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Ron you are the voice of reason in a clamouring crowd of crazy.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 12:10:20 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		We'll grab some porto and slap each other around to get the blood running, sometime, K?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 12:22:54 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP
We are not speaking here of some play or scene, the objective of the man is here not to give to the women some pleasure, but to force his will upon her, show his supremacy.

Well, yeah.  Yummy, isn't it?

Do you have any idea how many sub women have told me they weren't interested in me because I'm not enough of an asshole?  Believe me, there's a market for men who are much more severe than the evil faceslapper you describe.

There are a lot of people who do not feel "at home" or "at peace" without regular reminders of their place.  Some people need these reminders to be physical, and violent.  Why be disgusted by another's search for peace and contentment?  It seems like a waste of energy to me.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 1:13:00 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bravemax

My thoughts exactly.
There are some kinks I personally struggle with comprehending. But I would have assumed a consensus in this forum around the idea that a hit may mean something special in a nice way to the reciever (and the deliverer). It's not a radical concept on a bdsm website.

Shame we got derailed in this fashion as the original topic raises two interesting questions...
What are the doms in the rooms personal limits? Would they go anywhere for their subs "development" or draw the line before then for reasons of their own ethics/tastes?
And more controversialy are there any universally "too far" areas between consenting adults? Anti-euthanasia arguments suggest their are - basically saying that no-one can ethically ask another to kill them. (I dont agree).


Apologies for the color tinting thing, I have renounced & will sin no more . . . . . .

(in reply to bravemax)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 1:20:54 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		She is 5'2" and currently 107. She is doing intensive pilates each day and has gained about 4 pounds of muscle in the last month. She also eats about as much as I do. Martin was just taking a cheap shot at a girl he is supposedly defending, nothing more and nothing less.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 1:25:16 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Well from other Cmail that my girl has gotten, she is obviously brainwashed. I allowed her to respond and she said "Yes this girl knew before she was collared that Master would use internal enslavement conditioning. amira is quite happy, and happier than she has ever been. this girl is not abused, and does not need your assistance, but your concern is appreciated.". My girl also put in her profile that she is happy and not in an abusive relationship because of all the "help" so many other Men wanted to offer her.


quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP

As for denigrating men who slap women in the face. I do not, I just find them disgusting, literraly, like spinatch.


if the man is clearly the antichrist for doing this. i'm curious if the woman is culpable or is she merely viewed as a victim of his antics instead?

porcelaine



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 1:25:47 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not anorexic, but lose weight easily




sorry.....couldn't help myself


_____________________________

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MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 1:26:41 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Are you O positive? should we find out?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 1:41:32 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP

Orion,

if you equate understanding with accepting your position, you can forget it.
Nevertheless, I must recognize your honest effort to make your standpoint understandable to me. I respect that.
I gained some insights but our standpoints cannot be reconciled because they are based on morals and not logic.


Yeah and the morals and ethics you show are not very compatible with most mainstream BDSM, much less the kind of power exchange relationships I involve myself in.

quote:


After all, what is wrong with slapping a women enough to split her lip? To be precise, what is wrong with hitting a woman who at that moment cannot defend herself, and is anyhow in such emotional dependence that she is no position to retaliate, or go away. We are not speaking here of some play or scene, the objective of the man is here not to give to the women some pleasure, but to force his will upon her, show his supremacy.


Not all women are slaves (contrary to what many think I believe since I am Gorean), but slaves are property. Male or female it would not matter, if they popped off enough to require I backhand them, as punishment and remind them of their place, so fucking be it. I have quickly lost patience with you. My girl was not forced into what she not only consented to, but thrives in. I am sure you would rather her be back in a miserable life, with high anxiety and depression, then your sense of morals would not be outraged, and to hell with her, eh? You are fucked up dude. You do not see that what you perceive as good morals, in fact is what is not needed for her. I recognize that, as well as she does.

quote:


What can be wrong with using a time-honored method to remind a woman of her place?


Replace the word slave with woman, and you have it correct.

quote:


There is the pain she experiences, which not giving her any pleasure but plainly hurts, the danger of lasting injuries, there is the fear, the loss of self-esteem which will make her more insecure and unhappier.


Fucking stop it man, you are only making it worse. I do not enjoy punishing my property, but it is required for the maintenance. I would though like to show you how I deal with dipshits. The fucking do-gooders that come on this site to save all the mentally imbalanced and morally corrupt people that infest this place. What is sad is that you do more harm than good, and do not even realize it. Your superior sense of morals give you the same rights to saving people, as it did with all groups that are on a crusade and care not for the harm they actually do.

quote:


For what? You said you got one serious beating once, if it was a real bad one, the kind where you cannot stand anymore and just hope the other guys will get tired, because you cannot defend yourself. How did you feel afterward? Is this the kind a feeling a person who trust you should experience?


No you have a reading comprehension problem. Due to the work and company I used to keep, up until about 4 years ago, I have been in 178 street brawls (yeah I kept count) and have had my ass kicked in about half of them. You have no idea of the Psyche of a slave, and what they actually crave. Yes the feeling she gets from knowing that I will not put up with bullshit, that she will adhere to my commands and routine, the structured environment that she is given, as well as the love that I have, provides the foundation for her well being. The proof is in the pudding Buck, and I see the proof everyday, with her self esteem better, anxiety better, depression better, and less problems with PTSD. You see some of us actually know about what we are talking about, rather than be guided by just what feels right.

quote:


I find it repulsive because in my experience, boys and men using their brute force on smaller, weaker ones are weak and wicked in their mind (Orion, I would like to exclude you from this generalisation, if you do not mind). Remember the bullies at school? Not really appealing personalities. But a master doing the same to his girlfriend is suddenly a good guy? I doubt it.


I do not have a girlfriend, this is what you do not comprehend, and have no fucking clue about. You are wrapped up in a set of morals that is not compatible with this life style. This is why you are a troll, fishing for someone to save, and because you have this mentality is likely why you are alone. Sacrifice for someone that does not ask for it, is pushing away their rights. Which is worse? The morality I display or yours that wants to take away the rights of a person?

Try thinking about it this time. 

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 3:18:51 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP

<<snipped>>
We are not speaking here of some play or scene, the objective of the man is here not to give to the women some pleasure, but to force his will upon her, show his supremacy.


Yes and I find such a display utterly delicious and makes me feel very safe in his hands.

quote:

What can be wrong with using a time-honored method to remind a woman of her place?


Nothing at all.  My place at his side is the most peaceful and secure place I could possibly be and his violent correction is a reminder of what life is like outside my station with him.

quote:

There is the pain she experiences, which not giving her any pleasure but plainly hurts, the danger of lasting injuries, there is the fear, the loss of self-esteem which will make her more insecure and unhappier.

<<snipped>> 



Yes, it hurts, just as much as I used to hurt inside due to my desparate need to belong to someone like him.  Yes, just like the scars I wear on my mind and psyche from trying to live life in a way that was not in tune with who and what I am.  Yes, just like that I used to feel about the world around me because I didn't have any kind of defenses against its cruelty.  No.  It is in his hand and at his feet that I have finally come to appreciate myself, felt genuinely secure for the first time in my life, and happier than I could have ever imagined.

lovingpet

(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 3:21:06 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP

What can be wrong with using a time-honored method to remind a woman of her place?


I thought throwing a beating on a bitch was a time honored method.

Am I the only one?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 3:55:21 PM   
MartinP


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1


Do you have any idea how many sub women have told me they weren't interested in me because I'm not enough of an asshole?  Believe me, there's a market for men who are much more severe than the evil faceslapper you describe.

There are a lot of people who do not feel "at home" or "at peace" without regular reminders of their place.  Some people need these reminders to be physical, and violent.  Why be disgusted by another's search for peace and contentment?  It seems like a waste of energy to me.



RedMagic,

Two really good points you are making here.

I noticed earlier in my life that indeed when I let myself behave like an "asshole" I would score more often. So what? Should I change myself to a lower being so that I can bed more girls? I get enough female interest the way I am, and even if it weren't the case, I would not see it worth lowering myself to the lowest common denominator.

Yes there is a market for these men, as for abusers of all kinds. They are the living proof that the human gene pool was never properly sanitized.

I can reassure you, being disgusted by bad treatment of women comes quite naturally to me and does not involve any effort worth mentionning. It also brings some rare pleasures, like getting an elder man in Australia to wet his computer (with brandy?), style himself as a close combat expert, who tries to insult you in hebrew or yiddisch (he doesn't know the difference, the poor schmuck).

On a sadder note, this "search for contentment and peace" often started with abuse, long before the relationship. When I read some submissive posts here, or just read my own mail from lovely submissive women, I get a confirmation of what I heard from some --one is already one to many -- of my loves: To many of these women have been abused, as a child, as a teenager or a young woman, and are condemned to live it again and again as adult women.

Are the companions of these women right to repeat - unknowingly I presume - these early abuses?



_____________________________

Martin P

I remember

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 4:02:28 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I get just the opposite, in any mail I get, so perhaps it is a matter of gravitiation, in that we only see that which we search for, and with that myopic focus, can't see the forest for the trees.

Euell Gibbons

(ever eat a pine tree? most parts are edible)

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 4:05:13 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

(ever eat a pine tree? most parts are edible)


Yes but the needles get stuck in my teeth....


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
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(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 4:13:55 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

(ever eat a pine tree? most parts are edible)


Yes but the needles get stuck in my teeth....

i imagine those pesky pine cones can make your trip to the bathroom a real moment to remember...


_____________________________

PICKED UPON
TECHNO-DOLT
MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
GRACEFULLY CHALLENGED :::::splat:::::
BOOT WHORE
VAA/S FAN

GIVES GOOD HEART (Lushy)

CREATOR OF MAYHEM (practice)


(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 4:25:01 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP

Yes there is a market for these men, as for abusers of all kinds. They are the living proof that the human gene pool was never properly sanitized.


You know you are pretty fucking sickening dude. You spout sanctimonious bullshit, as a white knight, your intentions are good, but your results would be bad. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. As much as you see me, and those similar to me as an abuser, I see you and those similar to you as a pussy. Two different moralities, two different paths. What was that you said about paths in previous post?

quote:


I can reassure you, being disgusted by bad treatment of women comes quite naturally to me and does not involve any effort worth mentionning. It also brings some rare pleasures, like getting an elder man in Australia to wet his computer (with brandy?), style himself as a close combat expert, who tries to insult you in hebrew or yiddisch (he doesn't know the difference, the poor schmuck).


Hey dumbass, how many females have to tell you that it is not bad treatment before you understand that?

quote:


On a sadder note, this "search for contentment and peace" often started with abuse, long before the relationship. When I read some submissive posts here, or just read my own mail from lovely submissive women, I get a confirmation of what I heard from some --one is already one to many -- of my loves: To many of these women have been abused, as a child, as a teenager or a young woman, and are condemned to live it again and again as adult women.

Are the companions of these women right to repeat - unknowingly I presume - these early abuses?


See now your agenda comes out. Unless someone meets your criteria for what is good, then they are defective in some way. You do realize that many that are slaves and submissives have been dealing with the guilt from sanctimonious assholes like you their entire lives? Do you realize that many have been made to feel alientated, different, unwanted, and unfulfilled? So you want to fix them to fit what you determine is good?

That is called a messiah complex, so I suggest you get yourself some professional help for that.

Also, if you have done any kind of research on BDSM and abuse you would know the two biggest differences are 1) Consent and 2) Intent. Educate yourself because you really are showing your ignorance.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MartinP)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 5:06:08 PM   
bravemax


Posts: 23
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Also, if you have done any kind of research on BDSM and abuse you would know the two biggest differences are 1) Consent and 2) Intent. Educate yourself because you really are showing your ignorance.


Glad you said that. Many feel the difference between BDSM and abuse is merely consent. However Intent which is a much fuzzier concept is I agree pivotal. And I would put into the notion of Intent a range of even woolier concepts like Love and Compassion.

Of course the hard thing here is that people who do actually beat up their partners in order to crush their souls rather than to strengthen them will also use the word love to justify their actions sometimes.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/8/2009 5:13:46 PM   
MartinP


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline 		Orion,

Since you have access to the email accounts of your girlfriend, I suppose you did notice that I did not contact her to "save her from you".

Me as a white knight? How romantic of you! I suppose I should be flattered. Alas, I am just a common man simply disgusted by your way. It is not personal, I do not even know you.

She is not a person, just a slave thus it is OK to hit her. One may wonder why all these good men died in Gettysburg. In teaching us lessons, history will always beat fantasy, especially second-rate one.

"Fucking stop it man, you are only making it worse. I do not enjoy punishing my property, but it is required for the maintenance."
I am making it worse for whom? For her? So you do not like hurting her, you just do it for her own good but if you could avoid it you would never do it?

People reading your words will wonder: Does this man really believe a human being is his "property"? Does he really hurt a helpless woman (if only helpless in front of him) just out of necessity, without any pleasure?

I think we both know the answer to these questions: Of course you enjoy it! Be enough of a man to admit it.

_____________________________

Martin P

I remember

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 160
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