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RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 11:01:55 AM

happylittlepet

Posts: 289
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

and don't knock the icon - the icon is cute!

And useful with regard to the topic : it displays swinging -> motion -> change -> flexibility.

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Simple religion:
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'There's a fire burning in my heart'

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Post #: 21

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 11:06:46 AM

kiwisub12

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True, and flexibility in a relationship is important. Putting a label on something or someone, and adhering to it can limit the developement of said thing. Sometimes, not using a label gets more out of an individual, because they go further. You can't think outside of a box if there is no box.

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Post #: 22

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 11:09:28 AM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
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If I had a slave who didn't feel as I do, that the use of the word "slave" is yummy and sweet, then I wouldn't use that word. Or I'd find a way to modify it, so that it would thrill my partner, if possible. Love slave has been mentioned. Where you get the idea that love cannot be included in the concept of slavery, baffles me.

Love can make slaves of us all.

No way in hell would I verbally use a term that wasn't thrilling my partner as it did me. Maybe I could still get my yummy feeling by just thinking of him as my slave. Or maybe just the thought that its not an absolutely thrilling, yummy term to him, would totally blow it for me. So maybe that's what's going on with you right now, Leadership527: you're realizing that she never got a thrill from her designation as "slave" like you did- and that's killing your thrill.

As someone in a post above me alluded to, the Shakespeare quote is applicable here. "A rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet." Calling her something else that you both thrill to, would seem to be indicated here. If "slave", "love slave" or whatever, don't absolutely melt both of you with pleasure, find a term that will.

What words work for Carol, that would work for you too?

A far more important consideration in light of Carol's recent turmoil would seem to be:
If its the "slave" dynamic that's not working for her- the dynamic itself that you have in place, instead of just your wording for it... Then you should be willing to change that as well, to better suit both your needs and desires.

That's what I hope the two of you are still discussing amongst yourselves. People change and grow, and adjustments should be made accordingly. So that the two of you can continue to change and grow together. Change is good.

Edited for punctuation.

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 10/11/2009 11:36:19 AM >

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Post #: 23

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 11:25:30 AM

leadership527

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Orion & IronBear:

Just to really clarify, I wasn't so much saying that I couldn't imagine how one might love a slave. I'm more digging around at internal concepts inside myself and trying to find what I saw there. I'm toying with the idea that the thing carol actually is to me connects to something way more hind-brain than the concept of "slave" which actually requires a fairly sophisticated society just to exist. I mean seriously, men and women have been around an awful lot longer than the notion of property rights. And while I agree with you Ironbear that I will, to some extent, defend any piece of property of mine, attacking Carol (any sort of attack really, not physical) is the only thing I am aware of in my life that will just get unbridled aggression out of me. You know, that thought that "I WILL stop this and I do NOT care at what cost."

I know I used to angst about terminology and whether I belonged here an awful lot so this post might read like more of same. But honestly it was you Ironbear who got me past that and it's over with. This is more me digging introspectively within myself and trying to get down into some of those deep dark corners where words don't exist.

Isaac: Honestly you should really avoid parading your ignorance about in such a fashion. Is there something you hope to win by it? Honestly, you've made it abundantly clear that you have no idea what is really going on nor do you wish to. Why not leave it at that?

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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Post #: 24

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 11:54:04 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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Jeff,

I wish you lived closer. We'd brew some coffee, take a long walk, chat of this and that.

Tim

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 25

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 12:00:57 PM

SimplyIsaac

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Joined: 12/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
If you had been around longer you would realise that Jeff spends a lot of time thinking about his relationship with Carol.

Not sure where that fits, considering I've been on CM since December of 2008.

I'm familiar with Jeff's posts and the occasional tripe he has written more than once in the forums. My comments are related to a thread he and I engaged in last night, in which I questioned his assertions of the word "slave" and "good leadership". To that end, you'd probably be better served doing a little more reading yourself.

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 26

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 12:02:25 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
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From: St George Utah
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Jeff,

I think she is your Carol.

I think what you have works.

And that, in and of itself is more than the vast majority of those who have what they call is a SLAVE and find that it ends more often then it lasts.

What you have is a Carol.

What I have is a caryn and an andi.

That is what We have and I am more interested in that then what this lifestyle asks me to define them as.

Steel

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Post #: 27

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 12:23:28 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
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I have a friend whose Master simply states her label as "mine." I think its HOT lol. IT takes so much pressure off of her to try and be a label of general understanding and instead she can simply concentrate on HIM.

Also, what many people don't get in Gor there is more than just defnition of the relationship as a specific concept that is at play -- there is also social status that makes the distinction of what is a slave a focal point. Take out the social status among the general population and slave is not one fits all in the privacy of a relationship.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 10/11/2009 12:41:57 PM >

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Post #: 28

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 12:41:27 PM

DemonKia

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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What she says:

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I have a friend whose Master simply states her label as "mine." I think its HOT lol. IT takes so much pressure off of her to try and be a label of general understanding and instead she can simply concentrate on HIM.

Labels are sorta like street signs to get us in the general direction of where the house is located, but not very descriptive of what any one home is.

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Post #: 29

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 1:02:34 PM

alittleevil

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Just to really clarify, I wasn't so much saying that I couldn't imagine how one might love a slave. I'm more digging around at internal concepts inside myself and trying to find what I saw there. I'm toying with the idea that the thing carol actually is to me connects to something way more hind-brain than the concept of "slave" which actually requires a fairly sophisticated society just to exist. I mean seriously, men and women have been around an awful lot longer than the notion of property rights. {snip}

I know I used to angst about terminology and whether I belonged here an awful lot so this post might read like more of same. But honestly it was you Ironbear who got me past that and it's over with. This is more me digging introspectively within myself and trying to get down into some of those deep dark corners where words don't exist.

Hello Jeff,

I'm a little over-analytical at times, myself :-). As shorthand, slave is a pretty useful word. Even if the fine details differ among people's actual lives, most will accept that the paradigm describes a person for whom the obedience expected is absolute and the degree of authority ceded total. That certainly describes my life very neatly. So, when it is needful to be able to give someone a twenty-five words or less description of how i live and what i do, i define myself as slave.

Am i owned? Am i property? Do i have rights? These are the questions that keep us up nights (well, no, not really, but these questions certainly do incite some powerful debate). Yes, words have power. Some embrace this paradigm because of the power of the word slave-- precisely because of the power it has to capture the imagination and then the acts and then the conception of one's own Self (or self, as the case may be <g>).

Master is Master because, well, that's what he is to me. But am i a slave? In actuality, of course not, though if we did not live in this place and time, that is exactly what i would be. But opting away from use of the word in no way changes my life: the obedience expected is absolute and the degree of authority ceded is total. And, as yet, nobody has come up with a more precise shorthand. So, until they do, slave i am.

I, too, suspect that as a symbol for myself, slave is somewhat less than accurate, and the experience that i lack the words to describe is far more primal and hind-brain. I am simply His.

Best to you and yours,
aj

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Post #: 30

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 1:05:28 PM

mnottertail

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what would work for me is to keep popping her with a cattle prod, while she cowers in the corner, and say 'What are you?' until she came up with something I liked.........

LOL.

analytics fuck up real life alla time, pal.

tape this to your eyelids:

IT IS WHAT IT IS, and I'm lovin' every fuckin' minute of it.

Ron

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Post #: 31

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 1:15:48 PM

coyotedancer

Posts: 10
Joined: 10/26/2004
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Simple Isaac, does attacking people appeal to you? Maybe that is a personality trait you should work on. Just a suggestion. Oh yes, you are a switch.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 32

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 1:27:36 PM

lovingpet

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Joined: 6/19/2005
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Carol is YOURS! Isn't that the best thing for her to be? In reading your clarification, I understand that you are not looking at the term slave to see if it fits, but you are looking at a more wild and organic term for that very deep seated, primal feeling you have toward her. I still can't think of a word that expresses that better to me than when my partner says MINE. He can call me a slave, his slave, and any number of things and I can become weak kneed and sense his control and possessiveness of me, but when he says MINE, it is just a brooding level of selfish possession that melts me into a puddle of subly goo. I understand it differently than the others. It is more personal and somehow just as old as time itself. Ownership is a new concept by comparison to flat out possession.

Sure, Carol may be your slave. That is a term society can understand to one extent or another. It functions to communicate with others. To communicate with her, however, to really pierce her soul, it becomes a very intimate, personal thing to be yours. When you say things like "You are MINE!" "You belong to ME!" "MY slave", my guess is it speaks to her at a level those societal or "community/lifestyle" terms never can. Just my thoughts on way too much medicine.

lovingpet

< Message edited by lovingpet -- 10/11/2009 1:54:34 PM >

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Post #: 33

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 1:38:11 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Jeff,

I think she is your Carol.

I think what you have works.

And that, in and of itself is more than the vast majority of those who have what they call is a SLAVE and find that it ends more often then it lasts.

What you have is a Carol.

What I have is a caryn and an andi.

That is what We have and I am more interested in that then what this lifestyle asks me to define them as.

Steel

That made me really grin. M has a *me*.... and I'm a *bit like this, a bit like that.... and bit like someone that resembles a jolly nuisance*...lol

The reason I use *slave* now and then is, as Jeff said, because it *points in the general direction* of my relationship, and it's a bit like shorthand when I'm feeling idle. What I ACTUALLY am is * someone who's given authority over themselves to someone else* ..........

I don't *feel* like a slave , I don't *feel*like a submissive.........I FEEL like *someone that has given authority over themselves to someone else*.

So, *slave* is a vague pointer, *submissive* is an even vaguer one, *what I am* and *what I behave like*, *what takes place in our relationship* is somewhere amongst that and *me*.

agirl

< Message edited by agirl -- 10/11/2009 1:40:25 PM >

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Post #: 34

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 1:48:41 PM

SimplyIsaac

Posts: 376
Joined: 12/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Labels are sorta like street signs to get us in the general direction of where the house is located, but not very descriptive of what any one home is.

Not bad. I agree.

The problem is Kia when the street signs can be redirected at will to lead one to an entirely different neighborhood. Then of course there's the crowd who doesn't want any street signs at all.

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Post #: 35

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 1:49:05 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Well if you have been around that long, it seems you would have a better grasp of the situation. Maybe you do have a better grasp of it, and something else is fueling how you are responding, Opinions are free, but maybe yours is not very helpful in this situation, the choice is yours to continue or not though, and that choice will also be very informative about you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

Not sure where that fits, considering I've been on CM since December of 2008.

I'm familiar with Jeff's posts and the occasional tripe he has written more than once in the forums. My comments are related to a thread he and I engaged in last night, in which I questioned his assertions of the word "slave" and "good leadership". To that end, you'd probably be better served doing a little more reading yourself.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Post #: 36

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 1:59:00 PM

Falkenstein

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Labels are sorta like street signs to get us in the general direction of where the house is located, but not very descriptive of what any one home is.

Nicely said! I will store it for later use.

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Henry,

Part of that power which still
Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

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Post #: 37

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 2:23:00 PM

pyroaquatic

Posts: 1535
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From: Pyroaquatica
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That sounds vaguely familiar steel.

:D

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Post #: 38

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 3:26:44 PM

leadership527

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Joined: 6/2/2008
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~fast reply~
OK, I'll say this one last time then abandon this thread too. This is not a thread about labels. I now return you to your regularly scheduled session of the Barry Williams Show. Give it a few moments and I'm sure someone will put up a new thread about how their abusive Master yada yada yada and the entertainment will continue.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to pyroaquatic)

Post #: 39

RE: Is Carol my slave? - 10/11/2009 3:34:25 PM

happylittlepet

Posts: 289
Status: offline

You wrote about 'more primal' in your OP.

Connected
Belonging
Not alone
Recognition
Acceptance
Absolute positive regard
Unconditional

Man is not meant to be alone.

_____________________________

There are no rules, there is only compassion.

Simple religion:
There is no need for temples,
No need for complicated philosophies
My brain and my heart are my temples
My philosophy is kindness (DL)

'There's a fire burning in my heart'

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 40

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