Dont ask, dont tell changes?

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tazzygirl -> Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 10:05:38 AM)
quote: October 10, 2009 Obama vows to end 'don't ask, don't tell' By The Associated Press Advertiser WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama pledged to end the congressional ban on homosexuals serving openly in the military in a speech Saturday, but acknowledged to a cheering crowd that the policy changes he promised on the campaign trail are not coming as quickly as they expected. "I will end 'don't ask-don't tell,'" Obama said at the annual dinner of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay civil rights advocacy group. Obama reaffirmed his commitment to end the ban, but did not give a timetable or the specifics that some activists have called for. The law was passed by Congress in 1993 and signed by President Bill Clinton, who also promised to repeal the ban on homosexuals in the military but was blunted by opposition in the military and Congress. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/new-rule-everyone-deserve_b_315406.html Is it that hard to sign a signature? After all thats all it took to allow blacks into the military, an executive order. Maher's comments on this are funny... but not for the right of heart http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/new-rule-everyone-deserve_b_315406.html

Moonhead -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 10:54:00 AM)
I find it incredible that there's any debate about this at all.

tazzygirl -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 11:02:57 AM)
Oh i thought it was long overdue to be repealed. Im curious as to why its taking so long now... and Maher's comments were too priceless to leave out.

DomKen -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 11:22:11 AM)
There has been some debate about whether an executive order would work. The problem is DADTDP is enshrined in law and as part of the UCMJ. Therefore it is arguable whether an order from the President on this matter would be lawful. Personally I'm of the opinion that it would be best to change the UCMJ and then issue the EO.

TheHeretic -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 11:26:09 AM)
I won't be watching the Maher link, we've covered my attitude towards bigots like him before, but to the larger issue, gays in the military are exactly as big a problem as we choose to make them. Military society is not just like civilian society, with more standardized haircuts. Order and discipline come first, and the military is a very prudish organization. You can go to jail for heterosexual activity with the wrong person. I think the fear is that openly gay servicemembers are going to interfere with the order and discipline, that issues will develop of the "rainbow-flag" wing of the barracks, and that homophobia will rear its head, and cause still more problems. I have read somewhere (I don't feel like hunting it up) that more people have been thrown out of the military for homosexuality since the Clinton policy was put into effect, than when there was an outright ban. I served before Don't ask - Don't tell came along. At that time, nobody's sex life was anybody else's business. There were gay people on my base, and in my barracks, and there were heterosexual guys who fucked the wives of every crew chief who deployed, and everybody understood that we didn't talk about who put their dick where. It had nothing to do with accomplishing the mission. It's completely non-scientific of course, but I have noticed that a higher percentage of my gay friends are veterans than my straight friends. All from before Bill Clinton tried to make it better, but made it worse, the first time.

tazzygirl -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 11:36:44 AM)
I grew up in the military. No one asked... no one truly cared... or wanted to know. You sure didnt tell a man fresh from overseas that his wife was fucking around. It wasnt our business. I happen to agree with you that the "policy" made it worse. Sexual orientation has no basis for determining who will serve with honor and diligence and who will "whimp" out. I learn alot from you men here. So, when Maher said the following... quote: But there is one thing the president can do with the stroke of a pen: He can let gays serve openly in the military. It's called an executive order. Harry Truman wrote one in 1948 for blacks in the military, and that was that. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/new-rule-everyone-deserve_b_315406.html Its truly not that easy?

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 11:49:02 AM)
~FR~ I consider it a national disgrace that gay men and women are allowed to put their lives on the line for this country, but are not allowed to kiss their lovers on the military airfield when they return. This has far more to do with who is having sex with whom.

cuckoldmepls -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:02:51 PM)
I normally don't like to belittle someone personally, but you must be a stupid sob if you think gays should be allowed to openly serve in the military. The fact is, most men are not gay or bisexual, and it will hurt troop recruitment by allowing them to openly serve. Yes, women make up a small portion of the military, but for the most part, only physically superior men are able to handle combat operations. No one wants to be in a foxhole where your buddy would rather suck your dick than shoot at the enemy. Worse yet, he may shoot you if you refuse to allow him to suck your dick, then invite the enemy into the foxhole to replace you.

servantforuse -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:04:24 PM)
The military is more worried that they will be kissing their lovers on the battlefield, and not waiting for their return on the tarmac. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is the reason.

Moonhead -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:06:01 PM)
That's only a problem if they have lovers in the same regiment, though. Would that happen?

slvemike4u -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:15:52 PM)
Someone please tell me the last few posts were jokes......please!

tazzygirl -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:19:42 PM)
Dont know about gays, dont know about men, but even if i were in a fox hole with Master, i would damn well want to shoot that rifle instead of kissing him... and that isnt a slam against him. I value life over a fuck, as i am sure any man or woman serving would. Time and place for everything. Homophobia has no place in the military.

servantforuse -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:21:04 PM)
My post was not a joke. Talk to those in the military. Like I said, I'm not saying it's right. It is what it is.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:29:35 PM)
quote: I normally don't like to belittle someone personally, but you must be a stupid sob if you think gays should be allowed to openly serve in the military. The fact is, most men are not gay or bisexual, and it will hurt troop recruitment by allowing them to openly serve. Yes, women make up a small portion of the military, but for the most part, only physically superior men are able to handle combat operations. No one wants to be in a foxhole where your buddy would rather suck your dick than shoot at the enemy. Worse yet, he may shoot you if you refuse to allow him to suck your dick, then invite the enemy into the foxhole to replace you. ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls Wow...it takes a lot of guts to put that much stupidity in a post when you know your name is going to be attached to it. While I hate to interfere with your remarkably pristine ignorance, you overlook the fact that Gays have served in the military from time immemorial. The only question is whether we should give them the respect every serviceman and woman deserves. Your vote is obviously "no".

slvemike4u -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:30:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse The military is more worried that they will be kissing their lovers on the battlefield, and not waiting for their return on the tarmac. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is the reason. Servant todays date is Oct 11th 2009.....long past time to leave behind the homophobic belief that gays are so oversexed that they would be making out rather than fight.....

MMercurial -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:31:10 PM)
I spent 3 years in the Army in the late 70s. I had homosexuals in my room in the barracks. Two of them. It was disgusting. We were all around 20 years old. There were at least a handful of homosexual women in the companies I was assigned over that time. Everybody knew, but everybody tolerated. If you think having homosexuals in the open is so DAMN cool, you go join the Army, and be REQUIRED to share a room with some of them. I think your ARDOR (pun intended) will be considerably COOLED for the idea. I am so tired of people who never spent a day in the military, talk as though it is perfectly harmless to have homosexuals in it. All this lofty intellectual talk, COMPLETELY IGNORES the actual behavior of people of that age, and that hormone level, all being tossed in together. I was miserable. They were miserable. It was miserable. Wake up, and actually imagine how teenagers actually behave, rather than how egg-headed intellectuals PRETEND they behave. What utter nonsense.

kittinSol -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:35:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MMercurial I had homosexuals in my room in the barracks. Two of them. It was disgusting. It's not because you didn't like it that you should kill the joy for everybody else.

tazzygirl -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:35:32 PM)
Would it have been better for you had there been a man and woman fucking instead of two men? Or were you actually witness to their mating habits? Either way would have been a huge gross factor to me... i prefer my sex in private, as do most people when they realize that, one, it could cost them their jobs and paychecks.. and two.. most are conscious of how uncomfortable others are.

MMercurial -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:41:15 PM)
You people, with your oh so tolerant attitudes, just don't get it. If you join, you cannot get out. You cannot live where you want. You are ASSIGNED. If you try to avoid the assignment, it is a CRIME. A CRIME means: you can be arrested and imprisoned. You can be demoted. You can be dishonorably discharged, which will follow you for the rest of your life. Get a clue. It's pathetic you people don't know how the people who risk their lives for YOUR life, don't understand the conditions and terms under which we live. Utterly ungrateful, unthinking fools. Who do not deserve the three years I gave. I regret it now, spending those three years for those who have no gratitude for my sacrifice.

servantforuse -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:41:26 PM)
I have said twice now that these are not my views. I have not served in the military. I'm just saying that homophobia might not be the only reason. During WWII. Blacks also had their own units. This was also wrong. They were fighting the same war as whites.

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