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RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 11:33:14 AM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Of course not...you "allow" us our opinion as long as it's the same as yours or we keep it out of public view, which is absurd in the extreme.


Once again, I've never said any such thing; please go back through all of my posts and tell me where I said you have to think the same thing as I do, or you were not allowed to express an opinion.  I'll look forward to yet another apology that I doubt you'll have the bollocks to deliver.  You are starting to sound like a petulant child who is lashing out at his or her parents.

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 361
RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 11:42:03 AM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

I doubt you'll have the bollocks to deliver.



I believe the anatomically correct term is "gonads."

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 362
RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 12:09:29 PM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

I doubt you'll have the bollocks to deliver.



I believe the anatomically correct term is "gonads."



  • bollock - testis: one of the two male reproductive glands that produce spermatozoa and secrete androgens; "she kicked him in the balls and got away"
  • bollock - a pulley-block at the head of a topmast
    wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

    Clearly, I was referring to a pulley-block at the head of a topmast.  Whatever were you thinking?

    (in reply to Lucienne)
    • Profile   Post #: 363
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 2:15:04 PM   
    OrionTheWolf


    Posts: 7803
    Joined: 10/11/2006
    Status: offline     		Actually I have used quotes of the exact post in which shows what I am talking about, or I have asked questions that were never answered. So this comment is again incorrect. If another females opinion differs from yours, then you consider it "backwards", that is the word you used. If it does not promote what you feel is right, then it is "drug back into male-chauvinistic stone age", those are your words. Do you see how they are being perceived?

    So if you practice what you preach, either show me where I have attributed something that was not quoted, or apologize. If your thought is not clearly stated, then re-state it.

    As far as my position, I have maintained that choice is supposed to be a part of the feminist movement, but have as yet not got a couple of people to answer that. That has been the only position I have maintain, and yeah it looks pretty weak based upon the extreme views expressed by a few.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Venatrix

    You, along with Zephyr and Elisabella, do nothing but attribute to the rest of us things we've never said.  If that's the best you can do to support your position, you are in very weak shape, indeed.


    _____________________________

    When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

    (in reply to Venatrix)
    Profile   Post #: 364
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 2:30:03 PM   
    leadership527


    Posts: 5026
    Joined: 6/2/2008
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
    As far as my position, I have maintained that choice is supposed to be a part of the feminist movement, but have as yet not got a couple of people to answer that. That has been the only position I have maintain, and yeah it looks pretty weak based upon the extreme views expressed by a few.
    You know Orion, for me anyway, I've come to decide that it doesn't matter what "feminism" is. I'm in favor of everyone having choices... valid, usable choices. That isn't a man or woman thing with me. It's a people thing. I'm pretty much against anything that restricts choices and I'm definitely against anything which disparages a sizable portion of the human race (again, anything in general, not feminism). I'm also not much in favor of anything which seeks to fix the bad old days by recreating them under new management.

    Feminism is just another label. I know what I am actually for and against and that works for me. I'm coming to conclude that trying to debate what "feminism" is or is not is a lot like trying to debate what a slave is. It's impossible for two major reasons...

    a) There is no central arbiter that gets to make the call.
    b) There are zealots on both sides who are more interested in pushing agendas than getting to the bottom of things.


    _____________________________

    ~Jeff

    I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
    I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

    (in reply to OrionTheWolf)
    Profile   Post #: 365
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 2:49:19 PM   
    Venatrix


    Posts: 2238
    Joined: 11/28/2007
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

    If another females opinion differs from yours, then you consider it "backwards", that is the word you used. If it does not promote what you feel is right, then it is "drug back into male-chauvinistic stone age", those are your words. Do you see how they are being perceived?


    Well, yes, of course, some of the ideas being espoused here *are* backwards, and I'm certainly going to discuss those ideas as being backwards when I think they are.  But I've never once said that people didn't have a right to espouse them.  That's where you're twisting my words, and I don't appreciate it.
    quote:


    So if you practice what you preach, either show me where I have attributed something that was not quoted, or apologize. If your thought is not clearly stated, then re-state it.

    My thoughts have been clearly stated.  The fact that some people have deliberately twisted or misinterpreted what I've said so as to further their own agendas is nothing over which I have any control. 
    quote:


    As far as my position, I have maintained that choice is supposed to be a part of the feminist movement,


    I couldn't agree more, which is what I've been saying right along.  And that means the choice to have an unrestricted abortion freely available, the choice to pursue whatever career a woman is qualified for at equal pay for equal work, and the choice not to face discrimination in any public sector based solely on the fact that someone is a woman.  I look forward to reading your agreement with these principles.

    Edited to add:  I'm done with this thread.  It's become utterly mind-numbing.

    < Message edited by Venatrix -- 10/27/2009 2:50:39 PM >

    (in reply to OrionTheWolf)
    Profile   Post #: 366
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 3:32:49 PM   
    PeonForHer


    Posts: 19612
    Joined: 9/27/2008
    Status: offline     		Tester:

    Edited - failed.

    < Message edited by PeonForHer -- 10/27/2009 3:35:03 PM >

    _____________________________

    http://www.domme-chronicles.com


    (in reply to Venatrix)
    Profile   Post #: 367
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 4:25:16 PM   
    tazzygirl


    Posts: 37833
    Joined: 10/12/2007
    Status: offline
    quote:

    Go back a few pages and see where I said that I had no problem with women making WHATEVER choices they wanted to make privately, just don't try to drag society back to a male-chauvinistic stone age.

    You owe me an apology, but I doubt if you are man enough to offer one.  Or are you a woman?  Sorry, I can't tell from that photo.


    Privately?

    quote:

    Even if a majority of people in the West wanted to do that, which they don't, the vast majority of men would have to work two full-time jobs for their entire adult working lives in order to support a non-working spouse and family, by the time taxes are taken out.  I don't know of a single man who is willing to do that in order to turn the clock back.  Times have changed, lament it all you want, but you people are the dinosaurs of society.  Eventually you and your ideas will go the way of horse-drawn carriages: a quaint notation to history books, and surprise that that's how things once were.


    But, again, would that not be a choice?  Is that not what you stated feminism was about?  choices?

    quote:

    Does that mean that male nurses with larger dicks should be paid more than male nurses with smaller dicks?


    Male nurses, typically, make more than female nurses because they tend to gravitate towards the high adrenaline rush jobs... ICU... ER... ect.  I did say typically.  Male nurses also burn out quicker, get job boredom, and often into alot of hot water for attitudes because they soon feel taking orders from Drs instead of giving orders is beneath them.  I also know that every male nurse i have worked with have been intelligent, thoughtful, hardworking, inquisitive and eager to provide the care right along side the female nurses.  And, just in case you were not quite sure, starting salaries are rarely increased based upon a request for more money, unless they are going to a unit.  which, in that case, if a female nurse with more experience finds out he is making more money... ahem... it wont be pretty.

    as to the rest of that post, im not sure.  maybe the women didnt ask for enough money?

    i just flipped back through a few of your most recent posts.  what i see is someone fighting against the "backward" slide of female evolution.  in the process... and what you dont see... is your evolutionary needs are trying to leave heel marks all over the backs of those who dont want to carry a crop.

    ITS ABOUT CHOICES.  i dont have to like the choices you make.  but i support you to make them.  the problem with feminism, especially the nazi kind, is that there is no reciprocal support.  your fear is holding you back more than my desire to serve a man.



    _____________________________

    Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
    RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
    Duchess of Dissent 1
    Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
    If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

    (in reply to Venatrix)
    Profile   Post #: 368
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 6:02:06 PM   
    Aynne88


    Posts: 3873
    Joined: 8/29/2008
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Venatrix

    No, Zephyr, I've NEVER said that.  You know NOTHING about me and you are talking out of your arse, projecting your fears onto the rest of us.  Go back a few pages and see where I said that I had no problem with women making WHATEVER choices they wanted to make privately, just don't try to drag society back to a male-chauvinistic stone age.

    You owe me an apology, but I doubt if you are man enough to offer one.  Or are you a woman?  Sorry, I can't tell from that photo.




    Loves Venatrix. lol. I can't even address what Elisabella's last post to me was without laughing.  This is ridiculous, but amusing,


    _____________________________

    As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
    —Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



    (in reply to Venatrix)
    Profile   Post #: 369
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 7:59:43 PM   
    Elisabella


    Posts: 3939
    Status: offline     		Yeah I'm through with this thread too. All I see are a bunch of self righteous idiots who assume that saying "men and women are different" equals "women should submit to men and we should all live in chauvinistic times."

    PeonForHer you want to know why I'm against feminism?

    Because every single feminist I've ever talked to online has been like the feminists on this thread. Because they're all so stuffed full of their self-righteousness that if you make one single argument against their worldview (men and women act differently, they have different biology and their hormonal makeup causes personality differences) they twist it into the most ridiculous strawman argument they can and then say "ha ha you're an idiot because you believe women should submit to men." First off, if this was a BDSM thing, I'm a switch, so there goes that argument, and second off, the ONLY people in the world who I have EVER seen say that gender differences equal domination and submission are feminists and orthodox adherents to religion. Seriously. Feminists and fundies. The rest of us see differences as a means to cooperation.

    Oh and those are the normal ones. The nasty ones call you nazis and say that "people like you" are responsible for death camps, or try to go personal and attack you for having bad periods. Right now I'm on 1200 mg ibuprofin and 72 mg codeine and it fucking hurts to sit up. Aynne I hope your menopause sucks as hard as my periods do, and I really hope someone calls you a drama queen if you're ever stuck in bed from it. Honestly what sort of person are you? Do you go around and tell autistic kids they're just drama queens because they can't sit down and color in the lines? Maybe you tell the disabled to suck it up and walk up the steps. You can disagree with my beliefs (or rather, your gross misinterpretation of my beliefs) all you want but to attack me for having a fucking biological condition is low.

    So yeah. Feminism produces shit women. It's sorta like Communism - it might sound really good on paper but then you look over at Stalin & co and realize the real world application is just so damn screwed that it's probably best to just forget the whole thing.

    (in reply to Aynne88)
    Profile   Post #: 370
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 8:17:18 PM   
    ShaktiSama


    Posts: 1674
    Joined: 8/13/2007
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

    A female that has a different opinion than yours needs to keep it in the bedroom, and not out in society, but your opinion is okay to promote publically and impose on society? And here I thought part of feminism was getting rid of double standards.


    Male dominance is the norm.  It is ALREADY IMPOSED ON SOCIETY, and has been for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.  The idea that males are the superior gender and that males should enjoy special powers and privileges, that women are the inferior gender and should be grateful to be permitted to serve men at best, is NOT a new idea that needs some kind of special defense from men OR women.

    You find it offensive that I think that female submission should be a private and personal choice, rather than a role that is forced upon ALL women by their society's institutions?  Good!  I'm glad to have offended someone who is basically, at core, a misogynist bigot.  No apologies will be forthcoming, now or ever, for causing offense to someone who believes that all women are inferior and should be treated as such.

    Please, be offended.  In fact, if you and everyone else like you, male dominant misogynists and female submissive apologists for a misogynist system alike, would be so kind as to hold your breath until I deign to give a fuck how offended you are?  It would improve this planet a good deal.

    Would even create a lot of new jobs.  We'd need a whole lot of people to dig graves.

    Seriously.  I am sick of you anti-progressive Neanderthals and your vapid defense of injustice and bigotry based soley in your petty little kinks.  Nobody is trying to deprive you of your trivial sex games, but if you HONESTLY think the whole world needs to be a reflection of your bedroom, with women kneeling in subjugation, you need to grow the hell up and grow an extra brain cell.  Because the one you were born with is gonna get real lonely and start crying pretty soon.

    I'm going to stop reading posts to this thread now, because it causing an enormous reduction in my ability to respect all male dominants and female submissives as people.  And there is no excuse for allowing a few genuinely bigoted jackasses to affect my judgment of entire social groups.

    _____________________________

    "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
    -- Robert A. Heinlein

    (in reply to OrionTheWolf)
    Profile   Post #: 371
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 8:22:19 PM   
    tazzygirl


    Posts: 37833
    Joined: 10/12/2007
    Status: offline     		I personally dont need, want, desire the respect of a bitter woman who uses feminism as an excuse to belittle any and every female who does not goosestep to your beliefs.

    Other than that, have a great evening!

    _____________________________

    Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
    RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
    Duchess of Dissent 1
    Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
    If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

    (in reply to ShaktiSama)
    Profile   Post #: 372
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 8:30:44 PM   
    pyroaquatic


    Posts: 1535
    Joined: 12/4/2006
    From: Pyroaquatica
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: leadership527

    a) There is no central arbiter that gets to make the call.
    b) There are zealots on both sides who are more interested in pushing agendas than getting to the bottom of things.



    And this is why I like a Jeffership.

    -----
    To bad I can't bear children. That is one thing a man is not able to do, right?

    Is it not possible for a woman to take straight up DNA and place it inside of an egg and give birth to that baby? Does that not cut out the middleman (pun intended)?

    Kings and Queens all fall the same.

    yeah, I am pretty much done with this trainwreck of a thread unless others want to add on to what I have said.

    so much hate and so little unity. not just this thread, just damn....

    the whole world is making me sad today.


    _____________________________

    You are what your deep, driving desire is.
    As your desire is, so is your will.
    As your will is, so is your deed.
    As your deed is, so is your destiny.
    -Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

    (in reply to leadership527)
    Profile   Post #: 373
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 8:42:26 PM   
    GoDolphins


    Posts: 78
    Joined: 3/26/2009
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: leadership527

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
    As far as my position, I have maintained that choice is supposed to be a part of the feminist movement, but have as yet not got a couple of people to answer that. That has been the only position I have maintain, and yeah it looks pretty weak based upon the extreme views expressed by a few.
    You know Orion, for me anyway, I've come to decide that it doesn't matter what "feminism" is. I'm in favor of everyone having choices... valid, usable choices. That isn't a man or woman thing with me. It's a people thing. I'm pretty much against anything that restricts choices and I'm definitely against anything which disparages a sizable portion of the human race (again, anything in general, not feminism). I'm also not much in favor of anything which seeks to fix the bad old days by recreating them under new management.

    Feminism is just another label. I know what I am actually for and against and that works for me. I'm coming to conclude that trying to debate what "feminism" is or is not is a lot like trying to debate what a slave is. It's impossible for two major reasons...

    a) There is no central arbiter that gets to make the call.
    b) There are zealots on both sides who are more interested in pushing agendas than getting to the bottom of things.



    I like your views on things. People go crazy with the labels, as we have seen over and over again on these 19 pages.

    I seem to recall in my first post on this thread saying that much of what passes as feminism today is no longer about choice so much as it's about following a certain ideology, and if you don't follow that ideology you are an oppressing member of The Patriarchy if you're a man or a brainwashed doormat if you're a woman (or something to that effect, I could look it up I guess but I don't want to). In other words, disagree with feminism--at all-- and you are a sexist scum (and a Nazi sympathizer now, that's a new one I've never seen before this thread). I never imagined so many people would come on here and prove me right.

    (in reply to leadership527)
    Profile   Post #: 374
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 8:43:34 PM   
    GoDolphins


    Posts: 78
    Joined: 3/26/2009
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: leadership527

    a) There is no central arbiter that gets to make the call.
    b) There are zealots on both sides who are more interested in pushing agendas than getting to the bottom of things.



    And this is why I like a Jeffership.


    A what?

    (in reply to pyroaquatic)
    Profile   Post #: 375
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 8:43:49 PM   
    Arrogance


    Posts: 185
    Joined: 7/29/2009
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: leadership527

    a) There is no central arbiter that gets to make the call.
    b) There are zealots on both sides who are more interested in pushing agendas than getting to the bottom of things.



    And this is why I like a Jeffership.




    I preferred them during the Jefferson Airplane days.

    (in reply to pyroaquatic)
    Profile   Post #: 376
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 8:49:58 PM   
    aphotic


    Posts: 119
    Joined: 5/17/2009
    Status: offline     		If I may be as absurd as to look at the original post, I don't understand why there are 19 pages of bickering back and forth.

    Women can like football, and so can men.

    Someone working the same job deserves as much as their counterpart, but it doesn't always happen, not just because of sex.

    The author of Harry Potter, is she not the richest woman in England?

    It's preposterous for me to argue this as a white male, but I really believe in the true sense of feminism. My dad sucked and left us. So I should be less of a son, and person, because I relied on her income as a competent human being?

    Pull your pants up and argue it with logic. I'm a feminist that I believe in equal opportunity. Isn't that the point? We all want to have a fair shot, and even though their efforts sometimes carry them to extremes (based on race, gender, or whatever), we all want a level playing field.

    Be a human, not a man, woman, gay, or straight. Stand up for what is right.

    (in reply to Arrogance)
    Profile   Post #: 377
    RE: Feminism - 10/27/2009 10:08:28 PM   
    OrionTheWolf


    Posts: 7803
    Joined: 10/11/2006
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

    Male dominance is the norm.  It is ALREADY IMPOSED ON SOCIETY, and has been for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.  The idea that males are the superior gender and that males should enjoy special powers and privileges, that women are the inferior gender and should be grateful to be permitted to serve men at best, is NOT a new idea that needs some kind of special defense from men OR women.


    Male dominance is the norm? Really? Care to share a few every day examples?

    quote:


    You find it offensive that I think that female submission should be a private and personal choice, rather than a role that is forced upon ALL women by their society's institutions?  Good!  I'm glad to have offended someone who is basically, at core, a misogynist bigot.  No apologies will be forthcoming, now or ever, for causing offense to someone who believes that all women are inferior and should be treated as such.


    A misogynist bigot? Care to share something to prove that, other than just slinging insults? Where have I stated that all women are inferior? Put up or shut up. I actually love females, I love them for the differences they have from me. I recognize that males and females, or feminine and masculine are two parts to a whole. That is something you seem to miss. But do show where I have promoted the hatred of women, and that my views are bigoted.

    quote:


    Please, be offended.  In fact, if you and everyone else like you, male dominant misogynists and female submissive apologists for a misogynist system alike, would be so kind as to hold your breath until I deign to give a fuck how offended you are?  It would improve this planet a good deal.


    You do not offend me. In fact I have a lot of sympathy for you. It must be a very unhappy life to go through it with so much spite and hatred. I hope that what ever has caused such a mentality heals itself in you, because you express it so externally you pass on that negative energy to others that likely have never done anything to deserve it.

    quote:


    Would even create a lot of new jobs.  We'd need a whole lot of people to dig graves.


    So you actually wish the death of some people that may think differently than you? Now that is pretty extreme, you may actually want to seek a professional to talk to about that.

    quote:


    Seriously.  I am sick of you anti-progressive Neanderthals and your vapid defense of injustice and bigotry based soley in your petty little kinks.  Nobody is trying to deprive you of your trivial sex games, but if you HONESTLY think the whole world needs to be a reflection of your bedroom, with women kneeling in subjugation, you need to grow the hell up and grow an extra brain cell.  Because the one you were born with is gonna get real lonely and start crying pretty soon.


    Where has that been said? It seems you are a bit paranoid. I actually believe in more of a meritocracy, where each person is rewarded by what they put forth.

    quote:


    I'm going to stop reading posts to this thread now, because it causing an enormous reduction in my ability to respect all male dominants and female submissives as people.  And there is no excuse for allowing a few genuinely bigoted jackasses to affect my judgment of entire social groups.


    Yeah it is best you stop now, as I lost count of the amount of personal insults in this post, and that would be against mod 11's warning, but then again I have noticed several posters in this topic seem to be able to continue to insult with no post deletions or another warning. I on the other hand try to honor our host's wishes, and refrain from the insults.

    If you do decided to return from running away, maybe you can put some substance to your accusations. The alternative is to give justification to many of the actions and methods you supposedly hate, but since it is used in support of your "cause" it must make it okay.

    I do hope you find something that will heal all the hate you seem to have pent up inside you.

    _____________________________

    When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

    (in reply to ShaktiSama)
    Profile   Post #: 378
    RE: Feminism - 10/28/2009 2:04:32 AM   
    GYPSYMAMBO


    Posts: 660
    Joined: 9/26/2009
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SomethingCatchy


    My belief in feminism is equality,

    How do you view feminism? How does feminism affect your D/s and 'vanilla' relationships?



    Feminism is a political,cultural or economic movement aimed at establishing more rights or legal protection for women.
    If can involce social theory and philosophies that address gender differences or gender specific rights.
    FEMINIST theory emerged from the movements and can be found in a variety of disciplines such as feminist geography..her-story and literature.
    There are also types of feminists such as eco feminists..radical feminists..etc

    First Wave feminism was a period from early 19th to early 20th cent..and focused on PROMOTION OF PROPERTY RIGHTS and OPPOSITION TO CHATTEL MARRIAGE
    Near the end of the 19th it focused on gaining POLITICAL POWER
    eg) women in Quebec did not vote until the 1950's in CA
    There were campaigns for sexual,reproductive and economics rights.

    SECOND WAVE..early 60's to 90's..
    This was a continuation of the earlier phase involving suffragettes
    2nd wave was largely concerned with ISSUES OF EQUALITY such as ending discrimination
    THIS 2nd wave saw womens cultural and political inequalities as linked.It encouraged women to understand PERSONAL ASPECTS OF THEIR LIVES as deeply polarized and reflecting sexist power structures.
    2nd wave felt that the 1st wave wanted women to aspire to be LIKE men and that this idea must be set aside.

    2nd wavers felt that women were oppressed and were pressed to find meaning in their lives through husbands and children

    The term WOMENS LIB came about in 2nd wave

    THIRD WAVE..began in the early 1990's as a precieved response to the FAILURES of the 2nd wave   and as a response to backlash against many initutives of teh 2nd.

    3rd wavers feel there has been OVER EMPHASIS on the experiences of upper middle class white women within the movement and this does not address ALL WOMEN

    A structuralist interpretation of gender and sexuality is central to 3rd wave.Micro- politics figure highly in 3rd wave as a new paradigm to challenge 2nd wave as to what is good or not good for females.


    Personally I was active in 2nd wave from 1967+ and am in the 3rd..
    I believe 2nd wave did a great diservice to MEN AND WOMEN by NOT TAKING MEN ALONG WITH US..

    They became the enemy...and rather than strive for partnership and uniqueness of gender..or emphasis on the individual regardless of sex, we seperated the sexes even further
     
    I no longer wish to be part of the war of the sexes
     
    I do not hesitate to call out and be a voice for equality..and
    the abused..homeless..violated..ill..or oppression and suppression of any human. or animal or tree.
     
    At half a century I am learning to be a HUMANIST
    I wish to go forward with a qualified optimism about the capacity of people with the ultimate idea/goal of
    HUMAN FLOURISHING.
     
     Within that there may be a woman going to a football game..playing it(I DID)...a man wearing a dress..a woman choosing to surrender to a man..a man serving a woman..
    a woman with 2 husbands..access to business funds for all..equal eduation..literary freedoms.......
    HUMAN DIGNITY..capabilities..rights..
    gender eqaulity..social jsutice and seperation of church and state..
    rights to have what you want on your hot dog..roles built/defined in a relationship as a couple wishes( not society)/
    a right to eat and have a home..and much more...
     
    may the blessings be
     
    GM

    < Message edited by GYPSYMAMBO -- 10/28/2009 2:12:24 AM >

    (in reply to SomethingCatchy)
    Profile   Post #: 379
    RE: Feminism - 10/28/2009 2:45:51 AM   
    zephyroftheNorth


    Posts: 8159
    Joined: 10/5/2009
    From: The Great Frozen North
    Status: offline
    quote:

    At half a century I am learning to be a HUMANIST


    Humanist, what a lovely idea. How about a world where all are seen equally? Where women are treated as human beings and are free to make the choices they want whether to have a career or stay home and be a homemaker. Where men can make the same choices and neither is ridiculed for choosing the latter? Where women aren't told they have made the wrong choice....by other WOMEN.

    Ladies we have got to stop fighting each other that is the true shame in this thread.


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    (in reply to GYPSYMAMBO)
    Profile   Post #: 380
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