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RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 3:26:00 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Allowing AIG, even in name, to go under would have resulted in wide spread panic.  AIG isnt just an american company, its tentacles spread global... so would the fall out.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 3:46:56 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Good for you! My apologies for thinking otherwise. I guess I just never realized until now what a big Bush Administration economic policy supporter you are.


Why do I have to be a Bush supporter to acknowledge he did some things right?

I've stated a number of things Bush did right, but I believe overall he did a poor job.

There are a number of things I think Clinton did wrong, but I believe overall he did a good job.



quote:

Just in case there is any doubt. I was, am, and will ever be against any bail out and reward for failure.


No kidding?

Like most of us don't have that phrase embedded in our brains from your incessant use of it?


quote:


I knew there were many other options, the simplest of which would have been to let the failures fail and have the valuable parts of them sold off to the survivors, enabling both the survivors, and the economy to seek its own level while not burdening the next 3-4 generations with paying off the created deficit.


There have been 95 bank failures this year, with the bank bailout.

How many would there have been without it and could the economy have sustained it?

The FDIC has a limited insurance fund.

Where do you think the money would have come from (and still may have to) with a large amount of FDIC insured banks failing?

quote:



Although these bail outs served me well, they didn't serve the country. They are a direct cause of the current state of US economics. Unemployment, dearth of investment capital, devaluation of the dollar compared to world currencies, and the resulting rise in US dollar cost of oil and hard currency; are the consequences.


Let's see.

I'm trying to follow but I'm getting lost.

The bailouts, which were instituted to help faltering companies (hence the term bailout), were actually the cause of these companies failing?


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 3:55:23 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The Dow is up today because of the financials and the banks. Lets give Bush the credit for saving the banks with his stimulus over a year ago.

Yes, the financials and the banks play a big part...too big of a part. The  Dow is a very small indicator of the overall economy and has been overblown for 50 years. (S&P 500 has out performed it) This is further evidence that most of the companies on the Dow are hardly 'industrials.'

Much more accurately, we give thanx to the American taxpayer who did the hard part...paid for wall street's 'success'  or lack of it and more accuratley...its success in its corruption of Washington.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 3:55:34 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I personally am NOT impressed until I see some long term stability.
 
If it goes back down next week, and goes significantly even lower the next few months,
what is the point?

Is it a see-saw these days?

When it stays at or above 10,000 for a few months, I will be impressed.
I will be sure to update this thread in a few weeks.

The dow has been artificially propped up, let's see how long it lasts.
October 'Crash' Still on the Way: CEO - General * Europe * News * Story - CNBC.com

What happens if/when the government stops propping the DJ up?

Investor Daily: Sitting out the rally - Oct. 14, 2009

The economic recovery will eventually come for good, but when?
I don't see anyway the DJ will stay at or above 10,000 with unemployment over 10%
But hell who knows?
The proof will be in the puddin.
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

< Message edited by MzMia -- 10/14/2009 4:33:00 PM >

_____________________________

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To Each His/Her Own
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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:00:53 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Allowing AIG, even in name, to go under would have resulted in wide spread panic.  AIG isnt just an american company, its tentacles spread global... so would the fall out.

Therein exposes our fundamental difference Tazzy; you believe the rhetoric used by Presidents Bush and Obama to gain public support for bail out tax money going to their corporate sponsors. Me, I take the pragmatic approach, consider non tax payer alternatives and don't care about appearance. Just because I may be able to exploit the condition and benefit from it doesn't mean I support it philosophically. Hell, I even took a flier and bought some penny stock on a company formerly know as GM. I figure if they close more plants and layoff more people someone may just buy the shell next year and I will double my money. The concept is completely wrong from an altruistic perspective; but similar to this 'positive' stock market result who else but pragmatic investors like me benefit from this "DJ over 10k" news? You want to know a secret about the market - when a company announces large layoffs and plant closings - buy the stock. They're value goes up when they cut overhead.

Meanwhile these bailouts took money from other projects and services. Worse it's condemned the current Administration to bear the burden of continuing to bleed cash because now precedent is set. Until the mandate from Washington changes and failures are allowed to fail, the expectation of more bailouts keeps the same decision makers in place making the same decisions. They aren't creating new jobs they're cutting employees, increasing 'service fees', and tightening up lending criteria. Greater unemployment mean less tax revenue, at the local, State, and Federal level; coming at a time when the need for services increase. You see that as a good thing somehow, someway, having an ultimate positive outcome?

Exactly who would have panicked if AIG failed other than the executives and shareholders? Many global companies have come and gone over the years. There is a life expectancy for corporations as well as individuals. Company's die because they, their product, or their management become obsolete. The impact of AIG's demise would have been no different than any coming previously.

Taking your point of the global nature of AIG was was it incumbent on the USA to be the only source of bail out?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:08:47 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I personally am NOT impressed until I see some long term stability.
 
If it goes back down next week, and goes significantly even lower the next few months,
what is the point?

Is it a see-saw these days?

When it stays at or above 10,000 for a few months, I will be impressed.
I will be sure to update this thread in a few weeks.


There were predictions on this board that it would fall to 3,000.

It has been steadily climbing from its 6,000+ low since March.

Is there any reason to believe the trend will not continue?








< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/14/2009 4:15:09 PM >

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:12:05 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2008/09/15/daily57.html

Just one state.  Impacting not only other insurance companies, municipalities but also the state budget... and its just one.

Im glad you made a profit off the miseries of the public.  Even happier that you can come here and brag about it.  And i do wish you well in your endeavor in whatever country you are going too.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:20:10 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Wasn't the DOW as low as 5500 ? I thought it got below 6000..

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:21:18 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I thought so as well, use. And my stocks thought so too.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:25:44 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		According to the web site

http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/





52-Week Range (Low - High):
6,469.95 - 9,931.82

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:25:57 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I do know one thing for sure. My Smith-Barney quarterly statement was a sight to behold this week. I am back to where I was in December of 2007. No more red ink for this retired cable splicer. ( for a while any way I hope)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:27:08 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I am still sucking hind tit, but climbing. I had AIG and WaMu among others.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:28:32 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I guess that's right tazzy. I went back 2 years and it was still a little above 6000.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:31:01 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		sure didnt seem that way, use.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:32:43 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

The bailouts, which were instituted to help faltering companies (hence the term bailout), were actually the cause of these companies failing?
Ah, no. The bail outs are the reason the Country is failing. Unless you consider the unemployment rate, reduced government revenue, industrial plant closings, and record setting deficits; a good thing for the country.
quote:

There have been 95 bank failures this year, with the bank bailout.
See what happens if you don't make the proper payouts to the PACs? Guess these people and institutions didn't merit consideration like the others. Their failure just wasn't big enough. Too bad for them huh?
quote:

Where do you think the money would have come from (and still may have to) with a large amount of FDIC insured banks failing?
It didn't NEED to come from anywhere but from healthy financial institutions, there were some, who would have bought any viable assets. However, I agree - it's NOT over. Why don't you tell me where the money will come from since you supported, and continue to support, such failure bail outs?

quote:

Im glad you made a profit off the miseries of the public. Even happier that you can come here and brag about it.
See that, why did you have to go there? I'm disclosing a factual consequence. I'm certainly NOT unique. I didn't cause, want, or support as you did, the action needed to produce my investment result. I'd blame you and those supporting these initiatives for the publics "miseries". I did nothing but make a decision based upon the actions taken and my expectation of the pragmatic results. Honestly - I didn't believe there'd be this much of a stock market recovery until next year. I thought the government would require they bail-out failures to lend which would not have generated the same stock results. Silly me to think that the common citizen would derive a benefit from this or the prior administration's actions.

Your ire should be directed to those enabling me to do so. I had hoped that would be the case; but c'est la vie!

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 10/14/2009 4:36:10 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:35:13 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Ah, no. The bail outs are the reason the Country is failing. Unless you consider the unemployment rate, reduced government revenue, and industrial plant closings a good thing for the country.


I stopped reading after this.  I guess you didnt consider what the unemployment rate would have been had all these companies went under like dominoes.... oh wait... it doesnt affect you.  Never mind.  You wouldnt give it a thought in that case.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:45:56 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		What does DJI indicator tells about economy? Isn't it a bogus indicator of the value of limited number of large corporations?
There are news that most market insiders sell massively personal stock. I guess the major drop will come after very disappointing holiday season sales.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:47:48 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

Ah, no. The bail outs are the reason the Country is failing. Unless you consider the unemployment rate, reduced government revenue, and industrial plant closings a good thing for the country.

I stopped reading after this.  I guess you didnt consider what the unemployment rate would have been had all these companies went under like dominoes.... oh wait... it doesnt affect you.  Never mind.  You wouldnt give it a thought in that case.
Very offended that you can't appreciate my altruistic nature that shines just as much as my pragmatic investment strategy.

I saw high unemployment as a consequence of the bail out. I know that there are people in the Administration much smarter than me; so they must have expected or planned for these results right? Maybe there is some bigger agenda being served - who knows?

Whether there would or wouldn't have been more unemployed is speculation. Right now, with the bail outs - reality is the US is experiencing the highest unemployment in a generation. We don't know what would have occurred, who would have merged with whom, what the resulting employment figures would be.

"What if..." is is the only response when "what is..." sucks huh?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:52:50 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Be thankful we didnt, Merc, for your own sake.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:52:59 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Hasnt anyone who is against the bailout read anything on the state of the US banks at the time. It is incredible to think people still disagree with the bailout. Ironically no one has mentioned the treasury gains from the bailout.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/31/business/main5276208.shtml

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 40
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