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RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 7:22:21 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Anarcho-capitalism is the morally upright way to go.

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RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 9:11:00 AM   
Thunderbird56


Posts: 87
Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline 		Congratulations to "mercnbeth" for maintaining his temper, self-control and sanity. I'm afraid that mine is suffering and my blood pressure precludes me commenting much more. When will people learn to think with their brains and feel with their hearts and not the other way 'round?

"If  pigs could vote, the slop-herd would always get elected, even though he does a little slaughtering from time to time."

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 9:53:27 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		perhaps when they stop thinking and feeling with their wallets.

smiles

enjoy a beautiful day...

and, just a tip.. if a political board can get your health in that condition... perhaps this isnt the place for you?

as the familiar catch phrase these days seems to be... just sayin

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 11:29:13 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse
The Dow is up today because of the financials and the banks. Lets give Bush the credit for saving the banks with his stimulus over a year ago.


According to this source These are 'Bush' results.
quote:

rulemylife:
The AIG and bank bailouts occurred under Bush and he also set things in motion for the auto industry bailout.

quote:

US Financial Recovery Plan Passed by CongressUS Financial Recovery Plan Passed by Congress. 07 Oct 2008 ... Troubled Assets Relief Programme (TARP) - the $700bn US recovery plan to buy troubled assets
Who am I to argue?

Personally, I'm grateful the the US government bought out a large portion of the bad debt of the financial institutions. I still had some BoA I couldn't unload until today.

Great Job Bush & of course thanks to the Nobel Laureate - Bush II! (I mean President Obama)


Merc, I wouldn't be unloading BAC! Jim Cramer on "Mad Money" said it's going up to $40.
And another he likes which I bought is WIN, a phone co that pays a 10% dividend while your waiting.

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 12:05:42 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Merc, I wouldn't be unloading BAC! Jim Cramer on "Mad Money" said it's going up to $40.
And another he likes which I bought is WIN, a phone co that pays a 10% dividend while your waiting.
Thanks Popeye, you sound like my broker. Although it maybe better to listen to Cosmo Kramer than Jim going on the last two years of track record.

However, as I told him, I leave a week from today for Italy and want to convert as much as possible to Euros. At the pace the dollar is falling any gain in BAC will be lost in the exchange rate.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 2:20:00 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

No, you took care of that, with a reference. As you point out there were valuable assets. Your "hours away" comes from the same sources that said if there would be another "catastrophe" if the health care bill wasn't passed by August 1st. Where's that?


I didnt get the hours away comment from any single source, but several. What finance and a source on health have to do with each other is beyond me.

quote:

You have faith in those sources I don't.


The Chairman of the fed seems a good enough source.

quote:

However as the article you posted pointed out; these were not all bad assets. The US government managed to haul in about $4 Billion. Based on that reality, not a "what if..."; imagine how much someone already in the industry would have made an paid for those same assets? More to my point, how much would another bank have paid for the opportunity. Because Congress and the Administration had a priority on making executive bonuses pay out - it had to go down as it did.


Tell me who could have taken over the failing banks ect, several financial institutions were asked and declined the offer. Barclays Bank ( UK ) offered to take over Lehmans if the bad debts were guaranteed, this would have kept lehmans afloat. The deal fell through as they didnt get a guarantee and the component parts went for way below Barclays initial offer.


quote:



According to this, business is booming.

Despite concerted government-led and lender-supported efforts to prevent foreclosures, the number of filings hit a record high in the third quarter, according to a report issued Thursday."They were the worst three months of all time," said Rick Sharga, spokesman for RealtyTrac, an online marketer of foreclosed homes.During that time, 937,840 homes received a foreclosure letter -- whether a default notice, auction notice or bank repossession, the RealtyTrac report said. That means one in every 136 U.S. homes were in foreclosure, which is a 5% increase from the second quarter and a 23% jump over the third quarter of 2008.




This has nothing to with the bailout of the banks, and would have happened anyway. In my opinion, on a much larger scale, if more banks ect had gone to the wall.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 5:13:20 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

What finance and a source on health have to do with each other is beyond me.
Credibility of the 'boys' crying wolf.

quote:

The Chairman of the fed seems a good enough source.
Because he's so accurately predicted the turn around that has occurred since? What turnaround? - Exactly.

quote:

Tell me who could have taken over the failing banks ect, several financial institutions were asked and declined the offer. Barclays Bank ( UK ) offered to take over Lehmans if the bad debts were guaranteed, this would have kept lehmans afloat. The deal fell through as they didnt get a guarantee and the component parts went for way below Barclays initial offer.
Naming potential Banks would serve as an answer? Why limit the purchase to the whole? Break them up and sell off the viable parts - you know the parts that have generated $4 Billion when the government took them over. Why wouldn't someone buy them is the question.

quote:

This has nothing to with the bailout of the banks, and would have happened anyway. In my opinion, on a much larger scale, if more banks ect had gone to the wall.
Your right the for closures would have occurred anyway and are still occurring. The Administration bailed out the banks, paid off the executive bonuses and the homeowners still lost their homes.

Wait a minute - should I as the pragmatic, uncaring capitalist pig be defending the corporate banks and you and other socialist minded individuals be more concerned with the individuals who lost and are still losing their homes? Wow - maybe that's the 'CHANGE!' promised by the Obama campaign becoming reality? As long as they are failures and get tax money thrown at them, liberals see big banking Corporations as necessary needing government support at all costs and executive bonuses should be increased! To hell with those poor bastards losing their homes - they probably didn't vote for Obama in the first place. Now that they are homeless maybe they will!

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 5:18:54 PM   
NormalOutside


Posts: 622
Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline 		Wow, a lot of ignorant sheep here.

The stock market is up because the too big to fail banks were given taxpayer (your) money, which they poured into their own bonuses and the stock market. There has been no recovery whatsoever. The people are poorer, have fewer jobs. Credit defaults are at record highs. Unemployment is at the same level it was in the previous great depression, if you measure it the same way they did then. There is no industry. The economy is built on fake money printed by the federal reserve. The stock market is in a new bubble caused by the bailouts.

You people are in serious trouble if you don't even know that much. Wow.


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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 7:14:15 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

The stock market is up because the too big to fail banks were given taxpayer (your) money, which they poured into their own bonuses and the stock market. There has been no recovery whatsoever. The people are poorer, have fewer jobs. Credit defaults are at record highs. Unemployment is at the same level it was in the previous great depression, if you measure it the same way they did then. There is no industry. The economy is built on fake money printed by the federal reserve. The stock market is in a new bubble caused by the bailouts.


This is pretty much how I feel also.
The banks are making money.
The people are poorer, times are much harder, there are fewer jobs, unemployment
will probably continue to rise, credit defaults and bankruptcy are rising at record numbers, and
many are predicting even more foreclosures {especially since many people that are upside down on their mortgages are just walking the hell away}.

THIS is a fucking recovery?
For whom? Certainly not Joe Citizen.
Give me a barf bag, and gag me with a spoon, if the people are "buying" this "recovery" crap.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 10/15/2009 7:28:47 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 7:32:02 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Mia,

The saddest part is there will be an artificial blip on the map coming just after the New Year.  Much of the stimulus money, for whatever reasons, won't be spent until then.  I guess it will make for a great campaign tool.  "We have steered the economy out of the darkest hours..."  Only to have the spending slow to trickle again just before the Nov. midterms.

The cynical,
Thadius

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 7:41:48 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Thadius, I think we all look forward to seeing a real "recovery" on the horizon.
Any idea's when we can look forward to a "real" recovery?
How is the recovery working for those on social security?
A one time payment of $250? what are they going to do with that? pay a heating bill?
 Social Security: No Increase in 2010 - CBS News

My guess {and it really is a guess}, is in about 2-3 years.
I am just wondering when we will hit bottom.
I am thinking we might see the worst of it in 2010 or 2011.
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2834782/tm.htm

< Message edited by MzMia -- 10/15/2009 7:52:44 PM >

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Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 7:52:21 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Honestly, it is hard to tell when an actual recovery may occur.  With some of the proposed legislation, the artificial increase in available money, and the impending contraction due to inflation and rise in interest rates.  Not many things scare me, but this has me a bit on the worried side.

I wish you well,
Thadius

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 7:58:03 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Thadius, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

I never thought I would be alive to witness a Depression, but unfortunately
I am witnessing one now.
Times were so much better during the 80s and 90s, the sad thing is I really don't believe
many people realize how bad things really are.

The UP side is: MANY people are going to become closer to they're family and friends, many people are going to learn to live with far less, many are going to make a little bit go a long way, many people are going to stop being so greedy and wasteful, many people are going to start discovering and enjoying the wonderful things and activities in life that are inexpensive or free, many people are going to start believing in a higher power, many people are going to stop being so materialistic, many more people are going to learn to live with integrity, honesty and simplicity. Many people are going to be getting back to basics and the "old ways" of living, and for many people that might not be a bad thing at all.

Peace and Blessings.


< Message edited by MzMia -- 10/15/2009 8:34:09 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 10:13:23 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Mia,

The saddest part is there will be an artificial blip on the map coming just after the New Year.  Much of the stimulus money, for whatever reasons, won't be spent until then.  I guess it will make for a great campaign tool.  "We have steered the economy out of the darkest hours..."  Only to have the spending slow to trickle again just before the Nov. midterms.

The cynical,
Thadius


I think that's exactly why the stimulus bill was written the way it was, and I've thought so ever since the first time I read it. The money seems timed to really spike the economy in mid-2010.


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RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 11:11:40 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		It's amazing people are cheering the re-inflating of the same shit bubble.

Let's see if 1% own half the wealth, yet most of the population is being charged for the bailouts, and the consequence of the bailouts will have a disproportionate benefit for those holding most of their money in investments, it translates that a disproportionate amount of benefit will be garnered by the 1%.

So, 1% garner 50%+ benefit of a situation paid for by all. '

Congratulations, we've successfully saved the wealth structure.

Conversely if 1% own 50% and the market didn't receive enormous amounts of government welfare. It would give the lower 99% a larger time to acquire assets, and more than likely lead to some degree of permanent wealth shift.

It's not like the game has changed at all, since the crisis, what's to cheer except the inevitable consequences coming. (Pay tax Bill, either via taxation, or inflation, new bubble using same tactics).

However, if one views the US in terms of a big aggregate whole, without consideration to distribution within, or sustainability, it's been a great success.



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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/16/2009 12:50:33 AM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		Ok, so, when do we riot?

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/16/2009 1:25:33 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

Ok, so, when do we riot?


I'm surprised how little violence there has been. Actually. I'd of thought someone that lost their house would have went on a spree by now, more than one really. Or a small business owner that got their credit line yanked going postal. Or some dude that lost his job of 20 years, going nuts after seeing trillions shoveled into the coffers of those that disproportionately caused the mess.

I think they  are managing the impoverishment of the US, quite well, slow enough never to reach the point of rioting, yet a constant assault from one direction or another.

Riots, hell, I don't know if there will ever be riots. Slow waning of the US, and its role in the world, that's seems to be happening and has been for awhile. It takes time, but I view the last year as a definite quickening. You know the whole frog in a boiling pot thing. To extend that, I liken the last year as we are the frog, and somehow got duped into accepting the fat diners(government, Ultra-Wealthy, etc) eating habits to be our universal problem, and demanded they be fed more frog. Now we cheer as they regain their former 60 inch waist lines.

Anyway, I know this for a fact you will never correct the wealth distribution in this country without a painful period of time while that occurs. The events of last year have shown that the government, and people will not allow a shift of economic power. Thus the only way it will happen is a severe situation of a truly catastrophic nature.

The people ultimately are more scared of the rich not being rich than a chance of real change in the power structure.


IMO....









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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/16/2009 1:48:06 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

Wow, a lot of ignorant sheep here.

The stock market is up because the too big to fail banks were given taxpayer (your) money, which they poured into their own bonuses and the stock market. There has been no recovery whatsoever. The people are poorer, have fewer jobs. Credit defaults are at record highs. Unemployment is at the same level it was in the previous great depression, if you measure it the same way they did then. There is no industry. The economy is built on fake money printed by the federal reserve. The stock market is in a new bubble caused by the bailouts.

You people are in serious trouble if you don't even know that much. Wow.



I am glad you are here to correct us.....Nuff said.

(in reply to NormalOutside)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/16/2009 1:58:55 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Wait a minute - should I as the pragmatic, uncaring capitalist pig be defending the corporate banks and you and other socialist minded individuals be more concerned with the individuals who lost and are still losing their homes? Wow - maybe that's the 'CHANGE!' promised by the Obama campaign becoming reality? As long as they are failures and get tax money thrown at them, liberals see big banking Corporations as necessary needing government support at all costs and executive bonuses should be increased! To hell with those poor bastards losing their homes - they probably didn't vote for Obama in the first place. Now that they are homeless maybe they will!


Merc I have never called you uncaring or anything else. I have never condoned the leaders of the banks. The bonus`s you refer to were paid out across the board, as far as I can tell, this was to honour existing contracts.

As for homeowners losing their homes, many took on way too much debt. I am being pragmatic in saying it is their own fault. It is also the fault of estate agents ( realators ? ) who talked individuals into taking on this debt. Its also the fault of banks making mortgages with low payback rates and not telling people how the rates would increase after the honeymoon period.

Now we can blame individuals at either the top end or bottom end of the chain. We can blame the authorities for not regulating the market properly, hell we can even blame each other. It doesnt alter the point that the bailout halted the crisis, which at that point was in total freefall.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/16/2009 4:50:44 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

Wow, a lot of ignorant sheep here.

The stock market is up because the too big to fail banks were given taxpayer (your) money, which they poured into their own bonuses and the stock market. There has been no recovery whatsoever. The people are poorer, have fewer jobs. Credit defaults are at record highs. Unemployment is at the same level it was in the previous great depression, if you measure it the same way they did then. There is no industry. The economy is built on fake money printed by the federal reserve. The stock market is in a new bubble caused by the bailouts.

You people are in serious trouble if you don't even know that much. Wow.



Since you are so incredibly well-versed on these issues, perhaps you might offer some sources for your knowledgeable information.

(in reply to NormalOutside)
Profile   Post #: 80
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