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RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:53:50 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
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The treasury was alot of what went wrong with the bailout.

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(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 41

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 4:56:37 PM

servantforuse

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Joined: 3/8/2006
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It is just an average of 30 different stocks. It is usually a pretty good indicator os where everything else is in the economy.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 42

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 5:00:13 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Hasnt anyone who is against the bailout read anything on the state of the US banks at the time. It is incredible to think people still disagree with the bailout. Ironically no one has mentioned the treasury gains from the bailout.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/31/business/main5276208.shtml

From the source provided:The U.S. government has hauled in about $4 billion in profits from large banks that have repaid their obligations from last year's federal bailout, The New York Times reported Sunday

Wouldn't that directly contradict that the assets were/are 'valueless'?

This part is too easy...

If the US government "hauled in about $4 Billion" what was the real value of those assets? Or did the US government get efficient while I wasn't paying attention?

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 43

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 5:05:47 PM

rikigrl

Posts: 203
Joined: 5/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Just in case there is any doubt. I was, am, and will ever be against any bail out and reward for failure.

Unless you can profit directly from said bailouts apparently....

quote:

Although these bail outs served me well,

quote:

Hey, being a 'bottom line' kind a guy - I put my money where my opinion was and it's worked out great.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 44

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 5:12:06 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The Dow is up today because of the financials and the banks. Lets give Bush the credit for saving the banks with his stimulus over a year ago.

So its allowable to reference Bush concerning today's headlines.....as long as we are praising him?
Lay any of the blame at his doorstep and we get told to move along and let it go......make up your damm minds please.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 45

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 5:20:41 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

Unless you can profit directly from said bailouts apparently....

Why do you think I should be embarrassed by my results?

I profit from a LOT of peoples mistakes; even those I didn't cause and didn't want see occur. Sometimes it turns out that I profit from decisions people make whom I have tried to convince not to make them. You have to 'project out' and take the emotions out of the equation. You think I'm the only one doing so?

This is th result of government action not mine. It was one supported by many on CM as well as the general public, Congress, and, if you believe them - the Administration; without consideration of the consequences. For instance the the consequence of executives getting bonuses. That wasn't my idea of a good use of tax money - but those who supported it must have either thought it was a good thing or didn't make an informed decision.

I made my decisions after the fact. After my letters and phone calls to my "representatives" went unheard. I felt I was making an informed decision in doing so. Don't get angry or upset at me for doing so; or pointing out reality.

Now - if you want to change it - join me in voting out every incumbant on the ballot in November. If you like these results and want to keep the status quo - reelect your representative because he/she is "different". However, don't blame me when I back up my expectations and they turn out to be accurate.

(in reply to rikigrl)

Post #: 46

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 5:21:14 PM

servantforuse

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
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Lay all of the blame you want to. But it's hard to explain why an Obama stimulus package helped the economy and not mention that Bush did the first one. Obama just expanded it.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 47

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 5:23:54 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Lay all of the blame you want to. But it's hard to explain why an Obama stimulus package helped the economy and not mention that Bush did the first one. Obama just expanded it.

Well that sort of throws out the whole "road to socialism" argument....after all it was Bush who started down this road.....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 48

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 5:26:03 PM

servantforuse

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
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This thread has nothing to do with socialism. Personally I didn't agree with either bailout. Let the strong survive.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 49

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 5:33:21 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Well the flip side of that is "let the weak perish"....now personally I have no great love for Banks and Wall Street investment firms.....but people are ultimately the ones who suffer....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 50

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 6:04:44 PM

rikigrl

Posts: 203
Joined: 5/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Unless you can profit directly from said bailouts apparently....
Why do you think I should be embarrassed by my results?

I profit from a LOT of peoples mistakes; even those I didn't cause and didn't want see occur. Sometimes it turns out that I profit from decisions people make whom I have tried to convince not to make them. You have to 'project out' and take the emotions out of the equation. You think I'm the only one doing so?

This is th result of government action not mine. It was one supported by many on CM as well as the general public, Congress, and, if you believe them - the Administration; without consideration of the consequences. For instance the the consequence of executives getting bonuses. That wasn't my idea of a good use of tax money - but those who supported it must have either thought it was a good thing or didn't make an informed decision.

I made my decisions after the fact. After my letters and phone calls to my "representatives" went unheard. I felt I was making an informed decision in doing so. Don't get angry or upset at me for doing so; or pointing out reality.

Now - if you want to change it - join me in voting out every incumbant on the ballot in November. If you like these results and want to keep the status quo - reelect your representative because he/she is "different". However, don't blame me when I back up my expectations and they turn out to be accurate.

i don't expect you to be embarrassed by your profits, expressing your delight in your "pragmatism" gives the impression that you would dance with glee had the financial sector been allowed to fail and you had the market on tarps and cardboard boxes cornered (people have to live somewhere after all) and you're a "bottom line" kinda guy.
Also, anger is not the emotion i feel for you.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 51

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 6:10:11 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

i have to echo that. anger isnt want i feel.

smiles

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rikigrl)

Post #: 52

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 6:12:57 PM

Fellow

Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

Hasnt anyone who is against the bailout read anything on the state of the US banks at the time. It is incredible to think people still disagree with the bailout. Ironically no one has mentioned the treasury gains from the bailout.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/31/business/main5276208.shtml

I am still in the camp who believe the bailouts were wrong in term economic policy. Such a short period of time does not really give any answers about success. I see it as an attempt to cheat the laws of economics (and it can be done only temporarily).
If you read what the "cheerleader" article says:
"The U.S. government has hauled in about $4 billion in profits from large banks that have repaid their obligations from last year's federal bailout, The New York Times reported Sunday. "

How much was the total bailout and how does it compare to 4 bln.?

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 53

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 6:14:15 PM

servantforuse

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

I am also not embarrassed by the money I made at AT&T after 33 years there. That is why I went to work every day ( outside in Wisconsin winters ) . To make money.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 54

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 6:14:38 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Well the flip side of that is "let the weak perish"....now personally I have no great love for Banks and Wall Street investment firms.....but people are ultimately the ones who suffer....

Often, in life the truth or what is right, is very, very complicated.
Do I think we needed the bailouts?
Absolutely!
Do I agree with every single bail out?
Of course not.

I believe that we needed the bailouts, BUT that won't stop a few situations from occurring that
will eventually happen if/when the government steps back or is unable to control the outcome.

Life is not black or white, it is grey.
I am glad the DJ is up, but with unemployment over 10%, foreclosures still high and predicted to go up, and many working people struggling to be able to pay their bills, most people have not "recovered", the average Joe Citizen is still in a hole and trying to crawl the hell out of it.

Many of us {myself included}, are primarily only buying what we need or have to buy.
Most people {myself included} do not feel encouraged by the DJ rising to over 10,000 today, and
very few people probably feel optomistic about it.

I am not on one side or the other side {whatever the sides are}.
President Obama did not create this mess, and it certainly is not his fault.

I believe that President Obama is doing the best that he can, and wants to do the best he can for our country.
Unfortunately, we have not hit bottom yet and I do believe that a "bottom" is coming.
There are many sides to what is going on, and the answer is far from simple or easy.
At the end of the day, I hope we all want the best for America and the rest of the world.
What happens here in America, good or bad, certainly has a ripple effect throughout the world.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 10/14/2009 6:24:24 PM >

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(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 55

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 6:25:59 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

nor should you be. money earned should always be proudly held.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 56

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 6:28:09 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

At the end of the day, I hope we all want the best for America and the rest of the world.
What happens here in America, good or bad, certainly has a ripple effect throughout the world.

They dont see that, Mia. Nor do they wish to believe. You are talking to men who know all there is to know about finance.

~chuckles~

and i know a bit about wine in the old country.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 57

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/14/2009 8:39:33 PM

rikigrl

Posts: 203
Joined: 5/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

At the end of the day, I hope we all want the best for America and the rest of the world.
What happens here in America, good or bad, certainly has a ripple effect throughout the world.

They dont see that, Mia. Nor do they wish to believe. You are talking to men who know all there is to know about finance.

~chuckles~

and i know a bit about wine in the old country.

The world would be so much the better if it were a matriarchal society, haven't the males caused enough problems for this planet?

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 58

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 12:49:10 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Hasnt anyone who is against the bailout read anything on the state of the US banks at the time. It is incredible to think people still disagree with the bailout. Ironically no one has mentioned the treasury gains from the bailout.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/31/business/main5276208.shtml

From the source provided:The U.S. government has hauled in about $4 billion in profits from large banks that have repaid their obligations from last year's federal bailout, The New York Times reported Sunday

Wouldn't that directly contradict that the assets were/are 'valueless'?

This part is too easy...

If the US government "hauled in about $4 Billion" what was the real value of those assets? Or did the US government get efficient while I wasn't paying attention?

Your post does nothing to disprove the banks were on the verge of collapse, not just weeks away but hours away. No bailouts equals no assets.

You previously said this:

quote:

Whether there would or wouldn't have been more unemployed is speculation. Right now, with the bail outs - reality is the US is experiencing the highest unemployment in a generation. We don't know what would have occurred, who would have merged with whom, what the resulting employment figures would be.

"What if..." is is the only response when "what is..." sucks huh

This also applies to your claims about what would have happened without a bailout.

The whole situation was not about saving one bank or one car manufacturer, it was about saving the whole US economy from collapse and the catastrophe that would have followed.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8569

Edited to fix quotes

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 10/15/2009 12:50:24 AM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 59

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year - 10/15/2009 7:10:08 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Your post does nothing to disprove the banks were on the verge of collapse, not just weeks away but hours away. No bailouts equals no assets.

No, you took care of that, with a reference. As you point out there were valuable assets. Your "hours away" comes from the same sources that said if there would be another "catastrophe" if the health care bill wasn't passed by August 1st. Where's that?

You have faith in those sources I don't.

However as the article you posted pointed out; these were not all bad assets. The US government managed to haul in about $4 Billion. Based on that reality, not a "what if..."; imagine how much someone already in the industry would have made an paid for those same assets? More to my point, how much would another bank have paid for the opportunity. Because Congress and the Administration had a priority on making executive bonuses pay out - it had to go down as it did.

quote:

You previously said this:

quote:

Whether there would or wouldn't have been more unemployed is speculation. Right now, with the bail outs - reality is the US is experiencing the highest unemployment in a generation. We don't know what would have occurred, who would have merged with whom, what the resulting employment figures would be.

"What if..." is is the only response when "what is..." sucks huh

This also applies to your claims about what would have happened without a bailout.

Except since the US government reported a $4 Billion haul this isn't a what if about there being value. This is why did the US government have to take it over and use tax money in the first place?

Is there any benefit if the US government is foreclosing and making these profits through liquidation instead of a Company? No, but there is detriment. If the liquidation was done through the private sector, the government would have made money in tax and fee revenue instead of spending tax money for going through the foreclosure and liquidation process.

According to this, business is booming.

Despite concerted government-led and lender-supported efforts to prevent foreclosures, the number of filings hit a record high in the third quarter, according to a report issued Thursday."They were the worst three months of all time," said Rick Sharga, spokesman for RealtyTrac, an online marketer of foreclosed homes.During that time, 937,840 homes received a foreclosure letter -- whether a default notice, auction notice or bank repossession, the RealtyTrac report said. That means one in every 136 U.S. homes were in foreclosure, which is a 5% increase from the second quarter and a 23% jump over the third quarter of 2008.

The US government may not have all these, but I'm sure they'll improve on that $4 Billion YTD figure. That's not a "what if..." it's a "what is...".

Of course the good news is - that may further benefit the Stock Market. YEAH! Keep those results coming - REELECT CONGRESS!

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 10/15/2009 7:46:15 AM >

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 60

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