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Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 5:57:12 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Something Panda said in another topic gave me the idea for this. Many years ago when I studied theology, I noticed that there were some universal truths in them. I am going to offer one here, and hope others can add more.

Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.

Tao Te Ching 5 - The Tao doesn't take sides;
it gives birth to both good and evil.
The Master doesn't take sides;
she welcomes both saints and sinners.

P.S. Happy Birthday Panda!

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 6:12:19 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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The only universal truth that ties them all together in my view is their utter vagueness. i.e. dictate through ambiguity.

Lead through following...action through inaction...the river is the master of the valley because of geology???

Pick all the lottery numbers that probably won’t come up because then what you’ll be left with is another six that also won’t come up.

If I were Mr Lao I'd say instead...
“People that want to follow something don't need direction just inspiration.”

Then I'd have all these people later on thinking that this above actually meant something. My only crime is that I wasn't born hundreds of years ago because then these ramblings would be put together to form a whole new religion. Unfortunately I wouldn’t profit because I’d be dead. (Not a realistic business plan for success therefore)

I'd go further in that modern artists do far more spiritual works in terms of music, films, art but the messages of these even though the work of one individual is not considered by society to be as significant as the written work of certain individuals from years gone past. Why is that? Why does no one live their life as set out by the meaning of a modern film or song?

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 10/18/2009 6:30:26 AM >

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 8:23:59 AM

MarsBonfire

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SLV, but people DO live their lives out based on ridiculous media creations:
Scientology was created out of whole cloth, as part of a bar room bet at an early Worldcon.

The Manson family followed Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land" novel (which was also an outcome of that same bet) as one of their influences.

The Heaven's Gate cult was following a cobbled together belief system made up of UFO mythology, and whole cloth imaginings of it's leader, Whitehead.

Hell, there are people who started "mini-cults" based on religions portrayed in Star Trek DS-9, Babalon 5, and even one that created a religion based around the polytheistic system portrayed in the original Battlestar Galactica. (Glen A. Larson as the second coming... what a revolting idea THAT is!)

This situation has gotten so bad, that David Gerrold had to put a disclaimer into his "War With the Ctohorr" books, letting the weak minded seekers out there know he was ready, willing, and able to sue anyone out of existence, who tried to start a religion out of the systems he imagined in his books. He had seen how fans tended to jump on any bandwagon in science fiction, without using much critical thought, and how it almost always led to misery and tragedy.

Universal turths in religions? I can think of several:

1. Our God is the one true God.
2. Anyone who believes differently should be converted, shunned, or killed.
3. Live as we, the middle men, tell you too, and you'll be rewarded in the next life, no matter how miserable our rules make you in this one.
4. If you fail us, God will smite you, and punish you for all eternity... for instance: no meat on Friday.. if you have a balogna sandwich, you will burn in hell for all time. (example from George Carlin)

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 8:36:22 AM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

Something Panda said in another topic gave me the idea for this. Many years ago when I studied theology, I noticed that there were some universal truths in them. I am going to offer one here, and hope others can add more.
ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I've noticed that among the monotheistic religions, some of the common universal principals are:
1) There is only one god
2) He has one group of people who he likes a whole lot better than anyone else
3) Members of the religion in question are members of the favored group.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 8:42:28 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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Actually you have a point there, I can't dispute those things.

Although I'd argue that those people are just as likely to be following the correct path as those following their religious teachings from the dark ages. I suppose this was my point that it is all equal worth if nothing is substantiated by physical evidence such as an actual second coming etc.

Just as some argue god's words came through an earth bound entity in the past the same logic can be applied to any modern day writer. This is the problem with it all.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 10/18/2009 8:45:19 AM >

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 8:46:27 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

Universal turths in religions? I can think of several:

1. Our God is the one true God.
2. Anyone who believes differently should be converted, shunned, or killed.
3. Live as we, the middle men, tell you too, and you'll be rewarded in the next life, no matter how miserable our rules make you in this one.
4. If you fail us, God will smite you, and punish you for all eternity... for instance: no meat on Friday.. if you have a balogna sandwich, you will burn in hell for all time. (example from George Carlin)

This is formal, organized religion, based upon the teachings of men, many with ulterior motives.

Find me where these truths lay with Ghandi. With any informal religious belief. Then we can speak of universal truths. Until then, its turning into a religion bashing thread, not unlike many of the others.

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 8:55:30 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

This is formal, organized religion, based upon the teachings of men, many with ulterior motives.

Find me where these truths lay with Ghandi. With any informal religious belief. Then we can speak of universal truths. Until then, its turning into a religion bashing thread, not unlike many of the others.

Actually, it seems to be a religion-promoting thread, by Orion stating that a quote from Isaiah is a "universal truth".

So you can't call it bashing when you have disagreement with that statement.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 8:58:21 AM

MarsBonfire

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Slv, which brings us to:

5. We can't prove that God exists. You have to believe, or else your worst, irrational fears will be realized.

Tazzy, I strongly believe that the individual CAN live a peaceful life, and do some good in the world... however, it didn't take long for Ghandi's followers to slip from his path, and end up on the same one everyone else has followed since the beginning of time: If you have more than three people near each other, the majority will gang up on the remainder.

Pecking orders: It's not just for chickens anymore.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 9:00:04 AM

tazzygirl

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sorry rule, its leading down a path i have seen too often.

as i said... unless they speak about informal religions, its only based upon their own perceptions. many here have stated they do not follow any formal religion. its on a path to explosion.

for example:

a few truths that were posted, and taken as such, are not the truths for the religious beliefs that i hold.... that i have no doubt many hold. to argue that point will start a fight... one that is not worth the effort.

repeatedly, it has been stated many do not follow an organized faith. instead of discussing the myths and beliefs of those who know ONLY about what some preacher may have told them, an exploration into the non-conformists beliefs might be more beneficial leading to further understanding.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 9:02:21 AM

Termyn8or

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I think we can all agree that Man created religion. As such, why do we need religion to find the truth, can't we simply find it on our own, like those who wrote those books and such ?

T

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 9:07:52 AM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

This is formal, organized religion, based upon the teachings of men, many with ulterior motives.

Find me where these truths lay with Ghandi. With any informal religious belief. Then we can speak of universal truths. Until then, its turning into a religion bashing thread, not unlike many of the others.
ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

To be far, tazzy, I did say that the comment held true to organized, monotheistic religions. I don't think it religion bashing to note that religion differs from faith. Faith concerns the belief that there is a God or gods who exist and have some effect upon our earthly lives. Religion is the belief that that deity or deities have codified a set of rules that it wishes human beings to follow.

I also have to question whether Ghandi spoke of religion or whether he was more a social theorist. Thoughts?

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 9:28:04 AM

tazzygirl

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I believe Ghandi spoke more along the lines of social/moral... which is what religion speaks of as well. Get rid of the thou's shoulds and thou's shouldnst's and they arent that much different. Again, the bible, koran, torah, were all written by man. They are beautifully written stories about life, love and death. They all give a purpose to some peoples lives. And a form of income for others.

Mother Theresa was an inspiration. The Catholic Church an embarrassment. People do the acts of religion.... "Religion" tends to profit for man.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 9:34:37 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

repeatedly, it has been stated many do not follow an organized faith. instead of discussing the myths and beliefs of those who know ONLY about what some preacher may have told them, an exploration into the non-conformists beliefs might be more beneficial leading to further understanding.

Well Tazzy, please don't take this as an insult but I don't know any other way to say it.

The only difference I see is those who follow an organized faith believe what someone else made up while those who follow a non-organized form of faith believe what they have made up.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 9:40:21 AM

tazzygirl

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i prefer to go with what i believe... not because of what i was told.. but because its what makes sense to me. having said that, there is no one demanding that im going to heaven or hell... no one demanding money or time... no one claiming this belief or that one is wrong.

What i do have is a certain set of people trying to convince me that the path i have set for myself is wrong, because they cant, or dont want to, understand it. Which is cool. We all believe what we wish. I have never once said being an atheist was wrong... that you will burn in hell (something i dont believe in) or that your souls are morally corrupt. yet, i do follow a religious faith.

and that just confuses too many people. when you try and pidgeon hole a group, someone will always "not fit"

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rulemylife)

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 9:42:34 AM

rulemylife

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Which I guess gets us back to the concept of universal truths which I do not believe exist.

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 9:49:59 AM

mnottertail

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For, in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal.

JFK

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 9:51:50 AM

MarsBonfire

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SLV4: "Although I'd argue that those people are just as likely to be following the correct path as those following their religious teachings from the dark ages."

And the correct path is...? (Just taking a wild stab here... it's the one YOU, personally, think is right?) Again, we're back to #1 and #2 on my list...

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 11:01:42 AM

Lorr47

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quote:

Find me where these truths lay with Ghandi. With any informal religious belief. Then we can speak of universal truths. Until then, its turning into a religion bashing thread, not unlike many of the others.

Do as to others as you would have them do unto you. (or something like that.)

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 11:04:06 AM

Lorr47

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I think we can all agree that Man created religion. As such, why do we need religion to find the truth, can't we simply find it on our own, like those who wrote those books and such ?

T

AC/DC Who made Who?

(in reply to Termyn8or)

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RE: Some universal truths in different religions - 10/18/2009 11:12:01 AM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

What i do have is a certain set of people trying to convince me that the path i have set for myself is wrong, because they cant, or dont want to, understand it. Which is cool. We all believe what we wish. I have never once said being an atheist was wrong... that you will burn in hell (something i dont believe in) or that your souls are morally corrupt. yet, i do follow a religious faith.
ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

tazzy, I want to make clear that even though I am an atheist, I do not feel the need to convince anyone that their religious beliefs or faith are wrong. It's quite the reverse. I personally would hesitate to change anyone's faith based beliefs in and of themselves. If believing that a God or spirit or political belief system helps someone get through the day and maybe actually do some good, I have no problem with it.

A decent analogy is this. If someone is in pain, and taking a placebo is enough to take away that pain, I think it would be a poor ethical on my choice to convince them that they were just taking a sugar pill and making that pain again become an issue. My problem is only with those who I feel are trying to sell that sugar pill as the only acceptable medicine.

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