RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/23/2009 10:12:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The refusal of the other networks to participate in an interview session that Fox was denied access to was a nice statement to the administration.  It doesn't seem to be getting spun that way (yet) in the few reports I've seen, but that was a pretty direct rejection of the "and you ought not treat them as a news organization, either" statement/threat.



So, does that mean the other networks are not the liberally-biased, conservative-hating organizations that the right has been claiming for years?




No.  What makes you ask such a nonsensical question?




rulemylife -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/23/2009 10:17:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'm still curious about your methodology to come up with that ridiculous notion that the Collarchat forums consist of 12 conservatives, 13 liberals, and one neutral.  (I, of course, would be the neutral  [;)])



Where did I say the whole of the forums?

I said these were the numbers based on this thread to dispute your notion that conservatives were constantly outnumbered here.




rulemylife -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/23/2009 10:24:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The refusal of the other networks to participate in an interview session that Fox was denied access to was a nice statement to the administration.  It doesn't seem to be getting spun that way (yet) in the few reports I've seen, but that was a pretty direct rejection of the "and you ought not treat them as a news organization, either" statement/threat.



So, does that mean the other networks are not the liberally-biased, conservative-hating organizations that the right has been claiming for years?



No.  What makes you ask such a nonsensical question?


I think it was a pretty obvious question.

I don't know how many times I've heard that the liberals at the other networks hate Fox and want to put them out of business.

That would not seem to be the case by your own link.




TheHeretic -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/23/2009 10:29:51 PM)

With the alternate possibility that you have missed my meaning altogether... 

Wanna try again, maybe without putting words in my mouth?  [8|]




rulemylife -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/23/2009 10:38:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

With the alternate possibility that you have missed my meaning altogether... 

Wanna try again, maybe without putting words in my mouth?  [8|]


I didn't put any words in your mouth.

I only asked a direct question.

It was a simple yes or no answer, though you were, and are, free to elaborate (and answer).




TheHeretic -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/23/2009 11:55:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
I only asked a direct question.





Without answering the ones put to you...  Good luck with that.

G'nite  [;)]




CreativeDominant -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 1:11:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

Certainly not all of us though. Most of us were just suspicious of the agenda when this crowd came in and have seen nothing yet to allay the suspicion that this administration is doing its best to move a capitalistic country to a socialist model.
Social issues such as who fucks who or who marries who? Who cares? Not me. But take more and more of my money to help those who won't help themselves or who feel that I somehow...by being white, by being college-educated, by having two parents who stayed together, something...got a break that they did not? That pisses me off and I'm tired of it.
ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant



The ruling class of this country has always used the ability to divide the majority to it's advantage and it's sad to see how well it's worked. The model of the "lazy bums who won't help themselves" is a myth used very well to the advantage of those who want to protect their inherited wealth. All you have to do is find a couple of welfare cheats, or a drug addict getting something from the government and there you have it, proof that the money of the "working people" is being taken to support the undeserving.
If that's all it was, Spinner was a couple...I seriously doubt that anyone would be complaining.  But when even social activists note the problems of the "welfare mentality" that many in this country seem to have, then it is more than a myth.

quote:

If the right wing actually took any less of the money that the average working person made, I might be far more sympathetic. However, the current trends show a revers Robin Hood model. They steal from the middle class to give to the rich. While they do so, they talk meaningless phrases about smaller government and less taxation and some follow along as if that was really a likely outcome.

There are far more people who are just looking for a level playing field than a handout. It is a shame that that is overlooked in this "I don't want to help the undeserving" mindset.
Surely...with all the laws against discrimination based on race/gender/religion in the fields of employment and education, with programs and organizations such as the Equal Opportunity Act, Title IX, the Negro Scholarship Fund, the NAACP, N.O.W. and on and on and on, you aren't going to tell me that the field still isn't level enough?  Unless you advocate taking away companies, organizations, wealth from individuals who either built it themselves or whose families built it and redistributing it?  Unless you advocate just kicking out the heads of companies and replacing them with women or minorities not based on their merits but simply on their gender or race? 




CreativeDominant -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 1:13:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The refusal of the other networks to participate in an interview session that Fox was denied access to was a nice statement to the administration.  It doesn't seem to be getting spun that way (yet) in the few reports I've seen, but that was a pretty direct rejection of the "and you ought not treat them as a news organization, either" statement/threat.



So, does that mean the other networks are not the liberally-biased, conservative-hating organizations that the right has been claiming for years?

No, it means they were smart enough in a business sense to realize that if it is FOX today, it could be them tomorrow.




KYsissy -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 1:51:28 PM)

Interesting tidbit from Pew research about the 2008 election coverage, Fox was fairly balanced.

Maybe you have all seen this, maybe not.

http://www.journalism.org/node/13436#fn1




tazzygirl -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 5:53:29 PM)

quote:

In cable, the evidence firmly suggests there now really is an ideological divide between two of the three channels, at least in their coverage of the campaign.
Things look much better for Barack Obama—and much worse for John McCain—on MSNBC than in most other news outlets. On the Fox News Channel, the coverage of the presidential candidates is something of a mirror image of that seen on MSNBC.
The tone of CNN’s coverage, meanwhile, lay somewhere in the middle of the cable spectrum, and was generally more negative than the press overall.


http://www.journalism.org/node/13436#fn1

Did we read different stories?




slvemike4u -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 6:15:56 PM)

Curious Tazzy....I'm reading it the same way
Is it possible the link was cited without the citee reading it?
Nah,who would do that?




rulemylife -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 7:06:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So, does that mean the other networks are not the liberally-biased, conservative-hating organizations that the right has been claiming for years?

No, it means they were smart enough in a business sense to realize that if it is FOX today, it could be them tomorrow.


Which was really my point.

Because, contrary to Fox's crying and hand-wringing, Bush did the same thing.

They benefited from unparalleled access to the White House during the Bush administration while Bush spurned other news organizations.


President Bush Refused NY Times Requests For Interviews

Published by Fred Soto• November 12th, 2008 RSS News Feed


An interesting article in the LA Times suggests that President Bush tried to control the media from his inauguration to the bitter end. There have been numerous articles about talking points that the White House would send over to Fox News and Bush has given exclusives to the people at Fox and calls to Rush Limbaugh.

The New York Times, for instance, has had a standing request to interview President Bush since well before I came on this beat in May 2006. So far, no interview — and the reason why is hardly a secret. White House officials are quite open about the fact that we have not gotten an interview because they don’t like our coverage.




 




blacksword404 -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 7:36:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales


The model of the "lazy bums who won't help themselves" is a myth used very well to the advantage of those who want to protect their inherited wealth.


Hmm. Well I know one of those myths. She has been on welfare longer than I been alive. She is capable of working but just chooses not to. Why? Laziness. It is easier for her to get her government money than to get a job and make her own. And that was her thinking.




slvemike4u -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 7:44:39 PM)

Well,if you know one of them....hell,there must be thousands of them!




TheHeretic -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 9:15:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Bush did the same thing. 



Bullshit, RML.  Complete, utter, made up bullshit.  Denying an interview request (or just ignoring it) is in no way comparable to the now FAILED attempt of this administration to cull Fox from the pool.  Neither is any other petty bit of whatever you manage to google up.  The Obama Administration tried to declare a whole fucking network (the highest rated cable one) persona non grata, tried to bully the other networks into following their lead, and got shot down in humiliating fashion. 

Bush did not do the same thing.  That is a lie.  It is a stupid lie.  Why do you base your arguments on such stupid lies?





rulemylife -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 9:35:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Bush did the same thing. 



Bullshit, RML.  Complete, utter, made up bullshit.  Denying an interview request (or just ignoring it) is in no way comparable to the now FAILED attempt of this administration to cull Fox from the pool.  Neither is any other petty bit of whatever you manage to google up.  The Obama Administration tried to declare a whole fucking network (the highest rated cable one) persona non grata, tried to bully the other networks into following their lead, and got shot down in humiliating fashion. 

Bush did not do the same thing.  That is a lie.  It is a stupid lie.  Why do you base your arguments on such stupid lies?




It is?

My oh my!

If only I had known.

There are plenty of other links to back up that the Bush administration favored Fox and conservative commentators at the expense of other news sources.

And the link I provided was based on a story in the L.A. Times, hardly a bastion of liberalism.




TheHeretic -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 9:41:57 PM)

Favored, RML.  Not attempted to blackball. Don't try to rewrite the original.  It was your fucking OP.

Spin away, though.  Free speech is a wonderful thing. 




SpinnerofTales -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 9:49:39 PM)

quote:

Surely...with all the laws against discrimination based on race/gender/religion in the fields of employment and education, with programs and organizations such as the Equal Opportunity Act, Title IX, the Negro Scholarship Fund, the NAACP, N.O.W. and on and on and on, you aren't going to tell me that the field still isn't level enough? Unless you advocate taking away companies, organizations, wealth from individuals who either built it themselves or whose families built it and redistributing it? Unless you advocate just kicking out the heads of companies and replacing them with women or minorities not based on their merits but simply on their gender or race?
ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant



Let's look at that "even playing field". Even a casual perusal of the census figures shows us that the average white family income is $48,000 per year. The average black family income is $30,000. Now it seems to me that there are only two possible explanations for this. Either there is a systemic imbalance that encourage that inequity or the average black family is actually worth $18,000 a year less than an average white family. I personally believe in the former. If you believe in the latter, please do explain what you feel that difference in value is.

It also doesn't indicate a level playing field when the gap between the richest 5% and the average working person has widened to a point never seen in this country before. Again, it would seem to there are only two alternatives. First is that the upper 5% has become far smarter and harder working. The second is that societal policies have been skewed in their favor. Once again, I believe the former to be true. If you believe the latter to be the case, I more than welcome your perspective upon it.





SpinnerofTales -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 9:53:41 PM)

quote:

Favored, RML. Not attempted to blackball. Don't try to rewrite the original. It was your fucking OP.

Spin away, though. Free speech is a wonderful thing.
ORIGINAL: TheHeretic



Once again, Heritic, I am puzzled at your leap of logic. From what I heard, those in the administration who spoke out against Fox news did nothing to try to blackball anyone. They said that they felt Fox news was biased beyond reason and should not be taken seriously. They said that they urged other news organizations  not to take it seriously. I saw no call for legislation, removal of press privileges or any other attempt to throw them out of the press corps. In fact, it was made clear by the administration that they would continue to book representatives of the administration on Fox when requested to do so.

Once again it seems criticism has been mistaken for censorship.





rulemylife -> RE: White House advisers say Fox News is not news (10/24/2009 10:03:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Favored, RML.  Not attempted to blackball. Don't try to rewrite the original.  It was your fucking OP.

Spin away, though.  Free speech is a wonderful thing. 



Apparently Bush didn't believe free speech was such a wonderful thing.


http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/17/bush.nsa/index.h...

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In acknowledging the message was true, President Bush took aim at the messenger Saturday, saying that a newspaper jeopardized national security by revealing that he authorized wiretaps on U.S. citizens after September 11.



ReBelle Nation: CNN: Bush attacks paper for jeopardizing national ...

In acknowledging the message was true, President Bush took aim at the messenger Saturday, saying that The New York Times jeopardized national security by revealing that he authorized wiretaps on U.S. citizens after September 11. The president said he allowed the NSA "to intercept the international communications of people with known links to al Qaeda." Publishing details of the program "damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk," Bush said.




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