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RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/23/2009 9:02:19 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		so, in less than 10 months all that has passed in 8+ years has washed away instantly, they have remade themselves as if new,have total control of everything, no dissent, no deviations from the old republican agendas and planks, and will go and sin no more.........

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah



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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/23/2009 10:10:45 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Howdy Good Neighbor and Northman,

It is rather convenient that what seems to be your side of the divide is quick to forget that it wasn't eight years of free reign for the past administration. For the last two of these eight years the Dems had control of the house, as well as maintained a constant state of filibuster in the Senate; therefore having to be catered too. Now I'm not saying that this fact finalized any of the past Administrations policies, but they (the Dems) were a significant part of the process and it could be surmised that they helped sink a floundered vessel with their interference and past actions as their own version of the party of no.

I would be rather pleased to see both, the way left and the way right admit they have and are supporting a fraudulent example of what could or should be the noble and balanced "governance" of America.

But as I constantly allude to, the entire process is a train wreck. It must be cleaned up before the tracks are again capable of trustworthy transport.

Neither of these parties support the broad scope of America, they are both self serving and wreckless.


< Message edited by xBullx -- 10/23/2009 10:13:51 AM >

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/23/2009 10:17:27 AM   
mnottertail


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Bull, Oh Tuchuck to the south of me, my friend,

I do not like whats going on, I do not like the two party system, I do not like the infighting, I do not like the dissembling, the lobbies, the filibusters, the....well you get the idea......

but we must live life as we find it.

Ron



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/23/2009 10:27:41 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Howdy again Ron of the Ice Country,

I have talked with my ishy about a Government with more than two parties. Belgium, her past country of residence has a multi-party system. I don't believe that is the answer either, she says that they get absolutely nothing done over there. I don't have a good answer, hell I don't even have a half-assed answer as to what should be done to improve the process and that is why I most often simply interject commentary hoping to jar loose something that might spark a possible or at least interesting solution.

And I toil forth.

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/23/2009 11:18:55 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


Bull, Oh Tuchuck to the south of me, my friend,

I do not like whats going on, I do not like the two party system, I do not like the infighting, I do not like the dissembling, the lobbies, the filibusters, the....well you get the idea......

but we must live life as we find it.

Ron



One thing that can be said for the two party system is that you only get the occasional nutcase like Nader or Perot splitting the vote. The SDLP (that was)'s greatest achievement was letting Margaret Thatcher win a couple of general elections with 40% of the vote.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/23/2009 11:21:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I hear ya, roundhead.....

But americans being what they are, the monte carlo analysis would keep the fringies way out of blocking the doorways like they are now.......

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/23/2009 12:19:52 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf


Hell, now with they way many people are applying the word conservative, I need to start calling myself a constitutionalist or something else.




Now you're talking...

Maybe we need a strong third party. Although try something like that, along with mustering some credible results and I'd almost bet you could get the Donkeys and the Elephants to combine their efforts for the destruction of that. They seem rather protective of the little politburo of corruption.

Are you following the special election for the NY-23? The Conservative party, a mostly New York party that usually supports the GOP, is running a more conservative, at least on the usual social issues, candidate than the GOP. The strange thing is much of the nationally well known GOP is supporting the Conservative Party nominee.

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/23/2009 3:32:58 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf


Hell, now with they way many people are applying the word conservative, I need to start calling myself a constitutionalist or something else.




Now you're talking...

Maybe we need a strong third party. Although try something like that, along with mustering some credible results and I'd almost bet you could get the Donkeys and the Elephants to combine their efforts for the destruction of that. They seem rather protective of the little politburo of corruption.

Are you following the special election for the NY-23? The Conservative party, a mostly New York party that usually supports the GOP, is running a more conservative, at least on the usual social issues, candidate than the GOP. The strange thing is much of the nationally well known GOP is supporting the Conservative Party nominee.




Out of curiosity and such I'll have to look into it a bit more Ken (I’d be grateful of any good links you might have), but my conservative side isn't always where social issues lie. I'm the personal liberty and responsibility, live free and as you will, small Government, limited regulation and financially conservative type. None of these characteristics seem to have a well formed representation in modern American politics.

I could actually like the Dems on many social issues that they not so convincingly claim to value; I could also like the Repubs for the financial and small government values they seem to be falsely touting.

The sad thing is that the present Liberal and Conservative platforms seem to be less and less descriptive of the majority of the American populace and yet the hard liners self righteous dogma is becoming more and more representative within the philosophies of both American parties. In the end this actually is a centrist country. Of the two men to run for the duty as CINC during the last election, both claimed middle of the road ideology and it seems Obama's fantasy was most easily consumed, even if it is now almost impossible to recognize in his comments and actions.

The common bullshit that seems way to acceptable by many, is that a politician says one thing to gain party favor, another thing to win national favor and yet another thing to actually govern. If you ask me this describes nothing but a series of lies designed to deceive the general populace into buying a varied brand of crap that was never intended to actually be upheld for the welfare of America but more so to advance the agendas of political supporters and special interests.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I have heard representatives of both parties acknowledge this point in public forum.

In the end it seems to me that governing a country as vast, different and as wide reaching as ours must be nearly impossible. But to be able to muster confidence in our leadership and to have faith that their intention truly is for the greater good seems important to me. I know I can't always have my way on national issues and the fact is the majority of issues don't have to be decided in the national forum. The fed has become to overbearing, to judgmental of ideals and concepts it has no business legislating. Small/Local issues and values that you or I hold important to our own individual areas are being bartered away in vast legislation in the name of some greater good where the good reaches none of us that it is supposedly designed to help.

Our government is out of control and none of us seem ready to accept that it is "the fault of all of us".


< Message edited by xBullx -- 10/23/2009 3:38:26 PM >

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/23/2009 3:54:00 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

One thing that can be said for the two party system is that you only get the occasional nutcase like Nader or Perot splitting the vote. The SDLP (that was)'s greatest achievement was letting Margaret Thatcher win a couple of general elections with 40% of the vote.


Indeed. This was no where near as democratic as Blairs win in 2005, with a massive 35 % of the vote.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/23/2009 8:30:23 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx
Out of curiosity and such I'll have to look into it a bit more Ken (I’d be grateful of any good links you might have)

Here's a pretty good overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York's_23rd_congressional_district_special_election,_2009

All the usualk politics websites are covering it as well.

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/23/2009 9:49:09 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

That's wonderful Popeye and I agree with you.

Now tell me some practical solutions to get it accomplished.

Because what I find interesting here is the "Independents", who invariably are conservative lately, always sit on the sidelines pretending moral superiority and complaining about both parties without offering anything.




Rule, first of all stop calling each other names, that only pisses people off.
As for Independants we don't have to get involved in petty squables between D's and R's, there's nothing in it for us.
When I see a thread with D's and R's arguing about Bush, Obama etc and name calling I just go to another thread.
You know, the story about not getting in the middle of two guys comming out of a bar fighting. "Nothing to see! Move along!"
I didn't like Clinton or Bush (both) so I certainly don't take favorites .
I figure I'll reserve judgement on Obama until he's had a good bit of time in office but I really do hope that he's a great president.

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RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/24/2009 10:17:34 AM   
popeye1250


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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I could never figure out why people who are running for public office have to have a "position" on abortion.
If I were running I'd say that I have "no position" on it and that it shouldn't be part of any debate. And the government certainly shouldn't be involved in it either pro or con. It's a waste of The People's time and money.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/24/2009 11:10:05 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

I could never figure out why people who are running for public office have to have a "position" on abortion.
If I were running I'd say that I have "no position" on it and that it shouldn't be part of any debate. And the government certainly shouldn't be involved in it either pro or con. It's a waste of The People's time and money.
ORIGINAL: popeye1250


The problem with that is that abortion is a hot button issue on both sides. A candidate who doesn't come out totally against the right to choose (or pro-life on the other side of the view) will lose the backing of the religious right, one of the few remaining core constituencies of the GOP. A candidate that doesn't come out as pro-choice (or anti-life as the other side calls them) loses the trust and support of a large number of the more progressive voters. A candidate who chose neither would lose both.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/24/2009 11:16:53 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I could never figure out why people who are running for public office have to have a "position" on abortion.
If I were running I'd say that I have "no position" on it and that it shouldn't be part of any debate. And the government certainly shouldn't be involved in it either pro or con. It's a waste of The People's time and money.
Actually Popeye that is a position.....having nothing further to say regarding abortion is a de facto pro choice stance given the current law of the land(Roe vs Wade),Might as well jump in with both feet....hell your toes are allready wet.

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/24/2009 3:29:16 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Mike, to me that's a personal decision just like gay marriage or pot smoking. I just don't think it's the government's "job" to interfere in our lives.
If you want to marry your boyfriend or smoke pot good on ya!
It doesn't affect me and I shouldn't be interfereing in your personal business.
If someone wants an abortion that's their business not mine! I don't understand how those on the religious right think they have some sort of "right" to interfere or intrude in other people's lives.
They need to understand that "their beliefs" are just that and not other people's beliefs. That's why I'm very anti-religion.
I think the American Indians have it right; "Thankyou mother earth and father sky" and that's it, no "medicine man" driving big fancy horses and living in teepees bigger than the rest of the tribe.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/24/2009 4:21:25 PM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

One thing that can be said for the two party system is that you only get the occasional nutcase like Nader or Perot splitting the vote. The SDLP (that was)'s greatest achievement was letting Margaret Thatcher win a couple of general elections with 40% of the vote.


Indeed. This was no where near as democratic as Blairs win in 2005, with a massive 35 % of the vote.

There's a lot more fringe parties splitting the vote these days than there was back in 87. Fair point, though.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/24/2009 4:37:22 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Not really Moonhead. Looking at the 1987 result the fringe parties, IE listed as "Others"  gained 2.17 % of the votes as against 2.23 % in 2005. The main loss for the main parties was to UKIP, the SDP, Sinn Fein ect. The three main parties polled 95.7 % in 1987 and 93.8 % in 2005, if my maths are correct. Results can be found by using Google and the year.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/24/2009 4:39:16 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Fair enough. The UKIP certainly didn't exist in 87, though.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Conservatives roar; Republicans tremble - 10/24/2009 4:42:29 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Fair enough. The UKIP certainly didn't exist in 87, though.


I agree, which explains the small difference in the overall vote.

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Profile   Post #: 79
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