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Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 3/7/2006 5:41:20 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		( this should start the flames of controversy)--We have recently been posting about trust, faith, existence of "greater or lesser" beings--most of us here at CM appear to be decent human beings, human beings we would want to know if in our neighborhood or town--

So my question is, what drives your behavior? Is it Faith, Religion or Spirituality (I capitalize these for easy read versus any deference)

What do you define as Faith Versus Religion versus Spirituality

Do you think people today have more faith, more religion or more spirituality? Has religion or organized religion made a resurgence?

My response: Personally I have spirituality--but it is not guided by a better "after life" it is guided to do right to and by My surroundings, that is all inclusive, man, animal, earth, planets--having grown up as a Catholic, I wrestled with organized religions because they are subject to the emotional and political climate of the times--the leaders wavered--but My commitment to My inborn spirituality continued and continues to hold fast. Needless to say several years ago I walked away from "organized religion" and instead embraced a set of beliefs that defined My spirituality, hence My behavior.

Thoughts?



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SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 3/7/2006 6:01:48 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Hmmm...well, I was raised Irish Catholic in the strictist sense, and was a devout follower up until about 22 or 23. Right about that time, I started learning about Celtic Druidism. I have since converted completly. I really do not look at it as a religion though, more of a spirituality.

In terms of faith, I tend to believe that faith is nothing more than a belief in SOMETHING, it matters not what you believe in, as long as you believe in something, even if it is just yourself.

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 3/7/2006 6:11:35 AM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Faith, religion, and spirituality are all slightly different areas of the same issues.

I believe we need a good balance of all three, but first, I will give you my thoughts on their meaning:

Faith. Faith is the ability to believe with your heart and opposed to working things out logically. It is an important foundation for good emotional health to participate in your heart life through faith. Whil faith and the other twio terms are NOT mutually exclusive, one can have faith in MANY areas of life (and should). Without faith, the other two are empty.

Spirituality. This, in my opinion, is the personal, inward expression of faith. It is your personal relationship with God, divinity, the collective unconsious, the Tao, the Force, higher power, or any other term you wish to use.

Religion. This is the outward communal expression of Faith. The ritualization of our mythologies ... the 'sharing' part of our shared human experience.

Why do we need faith? Because we are human beings. We need to feel JUST AS MUCH as think (perhaps more). Far too often we are so arrogant that we believe we can slove ANYTHING provided we just approach it logically enough ... lol, wow, that just doesn't work.

Why do we need Spiritualiy? Because we need to exercise our connection to our place in the world ... our spiritual health. Just as we need to exercise your bodies and our minds ... emotional health is just as important, and it can not be worked through like a logic puzzle. Trying to do so would be like trying to fix a car's engine by replacing the tires.

Why do we need Religion? Because we are communal animals. We do not, and can not exist on our own without the eventual result being serious psychological trauma. Religion is a communal expression. I don't think any two people on earth truly have the same religion, as divine experience is such an individual thing, but it is the sharing that bonds us together as a species.

fergus

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 3/7/2006 6:12:48 AM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Hmmm...well, I was raised Irish Catholic in the strictist sense, and was a devout follower up until about 22 or 23. Right about that time, I started learning about Celtic Druidism. I have since converted completly. I really do not look at it as a religion though, more of a spirituality.

In terms of faith, I tend to believe that faith is nothing more than a belief in SOMETHING, it matters not what you believe in, as long as you believe in something, even if it is just yourself.


Are you a member of the ADF?

fergus

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 3/7/2006 6:24:59 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		No. Although solitary now, I started with teachings through the OBOD/ADO

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 3/7/2006 6:53:54 AM   
fastlane


Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		Religion...............hmmm, the group "Bad Religion" had some good songs...when I hear religion...I see $ signs......gimme, gimme, gimme.

Spirtuality.......This is more how I categorize myself. My appreciation of nature puts me in a place of comfort, especially when I am around the Ocean. I feel spiritual with nature and by treating people as I would like to be treated myself, I practice it, most of the time.

Faith.......I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow and that a warm, slow, wet kiss will come soon, by someone other than "Old Yeller."



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Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/29/2006 8:09:48 AM   
graytiger


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/27/2006
Status: offline 		this life is a total mystery to the untrained mind... preprogrammed to avoid pain and seek after pleasure.  this is sleepwalking through life.

what would the awakened mind find?  whatever you want, baby.  that's the fun of it... to discover that you get back what you put out, and so unless you want to be brutalized, don't brutalize others.  some of us don't discover that until we've actually experienced getting brutalized back...and then we have our little epiphany that has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with spirituality. imagine that you are a little godlet set loose upon the cosmos and you found yourself one day grooving around in the third dimension without any freaking clue what life would be like outside of three-dimensional life, and BANG! something happens that temporarily pops you into another reality and you get all worked up and try to explain to the other three-dimensionals what you've experienced and you are quickly locked up. go ahead, try and convince the guy about to attach electrodes to your skull that you have a direct experience of god. bzzzzzzzt!  BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!  there...feeling better now?  run along and have sex now.

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/29/2006 8:14:20 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		The Holy Gospel According to John (Moses Browning)

1. In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was the pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it worketh. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.

2. And shouldst thou muck with it and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.

3. And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4. Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5. And lo, they didn’t install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and loose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.

6. And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunction to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.

7. Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.

8. And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did function.

9. And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.

10. But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and did proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol, and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.

11. And when man had been totally ensnared with plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-BOOM to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

12. Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.

13. And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation by the followers of John.

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/29/2006 9:49:54 AM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		I have faith.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/29/2006 10:00:35 AM   
fullofgrace


Posts: 395
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: fl, usa
Status: offline 		So my question is, what drives your behavior? Is it Faith, Religion or Spirituality (I capitalize these for easy read versus any deference)

my personal moral code drives my behavior, and i won't follow any faith, religion, or spiritual idea that goes against it.

What do you define as Faith Versus Religion versus Spirituality

to me, they are all kind of lumped together - i have faith and i belong loosely to religious groups (ar ndraiocht fein, as well as some buddhist and other pagan groups). i consider myself to be a very spiritual person. to me, religion implies that your beliefs are at least characterized in part by some form of already established religion (mine are by paganism - particularly druidry and celtic goddess worship - and buddhism), whereas spirituality has a more amorphous tone (i tend to consider myself spiritual because my path is made up of what is right for me; the fact that what is right for me happens to be mostly religious beliefs is coincidental). faith is something that could be applied in non-religious or spiritual situations - for example, i have faith, which i feel is stronger than trust, perhaps, that He will always make decisions with my well-being in mind. in a more religious/spiritual sense, i have faith in the teachings of the religious path(s) i follow - that they are the right ones for me and that they are or will improving my life and myself.

Do you think people today have more faith, more religion or more spirituality? Has religion or organized religion made a resurgence?

i think that based on the size of the world's major religions, just in numbers, people have more "religion." however, many people who self-identify as christian or jewish or pagan or muslim are more "spiritual" than "religious" - my roommate self-identifies as muslim but is more spiritual and doesn't really subscribe to all the trappings of the islamic faith. my mother self-identified as southern baptist but mostly because she was raised that way; her beliefs didn't really line up with southern baptist, they were always too amorphous for organized religion. so in this way you could probably say that more people are spiritual. however, as far as faith goes, i think people - even religious people - are beginning to lose it. while i appreciate technological advances, i feel like our world's growing dependence and emphasis on science has begun to take the mystery out of the world. science doesn't HAVE to do that, and in many cases there are scientists (such as a physicist friend of mine) who still manage to maintain some belief in mysticism and some regard for faith, but i fear that science is beginning to replace faith. faith in the past mostly existed because of a lack of hard fact, and now people are beginning to replace it with fact, which is very sad, to me.


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i have the kind of beauty that moves...

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/29/2006 10:08:28 AM   
ChainedExistence


Posts: 507
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline 		I grew up in a strict Southern Baptist household-church every Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, plus GA's, vacation bible school, etc. When I was young, I never questioned my faith..it always WAS.
As I grew older things began to take place that made me question a lot of what I'd been taught:
*All drinking was bad...I knew tons of people who enjoyed some wine with dinner and weren't going out drunk driving, and destroying their lives, plus it never made sense to me that Jesus was drinking in the Bible but we didn't)
*Dancing leads to sin .. I always wondered how my mom justified the ballet lessons
*Being homosexual is a sin -so why was it that a family member who seemed "gay" his entire life, was suddenly the Devil incarnate? (He's really a great guy-loving, generous, kind to old people and animals, and yes, spiritual)
*Divorce is wrong-so you are supposed to practically commit suicide (whoops , also wrong) because you'd rather die than stay married?
 
So many things in the Religion went against what I believed in my heart. Then I had a tragic event happen in my life and the only comfort anyone could offer was " God must have a purpose for it to be that way"...I don't think so...sometimes bad things just happen...because they happen, not because someone on high, says...:"Hey, why don't I devastate her so something good might happen later?"...makes no sense to me at all....
The truth is..there are some things I still love about religion- the music, the beautful churches, the quiet contemplation of prayer, the kindness of church members who've known you your whole life, the rituals of marriage and baptism,  the sense of hope that exists even at a funeral, holidays...but I guess I am torn between accepting it all without question, and accepting the parts that I can believe in. If I had to say where I was in that battle right now,  I'd have to say I am more about spirituality with an occasional dose of religion thrown in to make my parents happy. As for what drives others, I'm not so sure. My home church is bigger than ever, so maybe people are searching for something bigger than themselves to believe in, or maybe they are there simply for the companionship. All I know is I try to be a good person- and think about the needs of others. If the religion gave me that , then it's not all bad.

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/29/2006 11:22:11 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I believe (rightly or wrongly depending on your point of view) that Faith, Religion, or Spirituality are intertwined and yet can stand alone independent of each other.. For me the following is what i work on and have done so all my life:

  1. Faith: The belief you have of some form of divinity, the belief in a system, the belief in others or the belief in yourself.
  2.  Religion: Some form of either personal or public ritualised (to any degree from simple candle burning to an elaborate system) religious system. Such a system need not have centuries of existance with ceremonial or elaborate ritualistic formats but a belief system in some form of divinity. 
  3. Spiritulity: The allowing your belief system no matter how informal and personal it is, to becomed involved in your daily actions, decisions and interactions. For some their spirituality shines when meditation or during a critical time or just when they are with people. This above all else is such a personal thing and comes naturally often without being aware of it....

In many cases it is difficult or even impossible to deliniate between each of these and yet each can stand alone with out any or all of the other/s

Personally I was born into and grew up in a Pagan Home.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/29/2006 3:35:13 PM   
Saraheli


Posts: 178
Joined: 1/2/2006
Status: offline 		What drives my behaviour is my own morals, what I think is right, and what I think is wrong.
I was raised by parents who decided to let me choose what religion, if any, I wanted to follow.  I chose no religion.  I believe that there are Gods, sure, but I don't think they're really anything special. 
You Might be able to say that I'm driven by faith, but that faith is in my own judgement. 
I don't consider myself spiritual, I am not even sure what people mean by spirituality.   

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Look so sweet I wanna cry
Here in this bed we have nothing to hide
Come on, don't you want to try
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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/30/2006 3:56:54 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Faith, religion and spirituality are all products of the imagination and can't be objectively tested by a third party so you can believe what you want to believe. Something might have meaning to you but totally meaningless to anyone else. To me the faith, religion and spirituality are different facets of the same thing. I believe in none of them because none make sense to me, they just seem to be hankerings after something that isn't there. After death we will know a little more or nothing because we would be nothing. Until then I prefer to try to be rational. After all it is through the rational mind we have such insight into the laws of physics that allow us to fly around the world and sit here communicating between continents or just the pure fascination of what science reveals to us which I find far more interesting and stimulating than some half baked philosophy that someone on dope and listening to the Grateful Dead might have dreamt up.

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/30/2006 4:43:17 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Religion is the reason I'm awake right now. I work until 4am on Saturday night/Sunday morning, get home at about 5am, and need a shower, which is about like drinking three cups of coffee. I get dragged to mass at 8:00, so it's not really worth even trying to sleep.

I have faith that this will happen again next week, and I will religiously bitch about it again on Collarme.
 
Spirituality is how I will feel in mass. By the time the priest drones on a bit, I will be so sleepy that I will only be there in spirit.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 7/30/2006 4:45:49 AM >

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/30/2006 5:18:54 AM   
irishbynature


Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		I think 'religion' is when you claim to believe something (regardless of what faith) but don't even attempt to practice that religion. Hence, you claim to be Christian, attend church, but judge others, or turn a blind eye to help someone in need.  Spirituality is actually 'living' your beliefs. So, if someone slaps you in the face and your religion says, "Turn the other cheek"...and "forgive them"...then, you turn away and forgive them. That's practicing and "LIVING" or being spiritual.

You needs lots of faith to actually follow the principles.

Warmly
Irishbynature


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What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller


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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/30/2006 5:26:19 AM   
untamedshysub


Posts: 220
Joined: 2/26/2005
Status: offline 		Faith is belief in something unseen, Religion is pratice of traditions bulit by man, Spirituality  is your personal relationship with God. In my humble opinion.

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/30/2006 5:29:39 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'll never understand why people seem to assume that everyone must have some kind of spirituality.  I'm not spiritual, don't believe in God, and don't go out every night and rape and pillage, either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

So my question is, what drives your behavior? Is it Faith, Religion or Spirituality (I capitalize these for easy read versus any deference)

(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/30/2006 5:40:09 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I was born and raised a Celtic (my granny used the old word"Keltoi") Druid. The closest i have ever come to a written definition of our basic precepts is the following:

The closest analogy are the Celtic Virtues of honor, loyalty, hospitality, honesty, justice and courage. "Daven" briefly describes the Virtues as follows:

"Briefly stated the virtue of Honor requires one to adhere to their oaths and do the right thing, even if it will ultimately hurt others or oneself in the process.

A Druid is obligated to remain true to friends, family and leaders thus exhibiting the virtue of Loyalty.

Hospitality demands that a Druid be a good host when guests are under one's roof.

Honesty insists that one tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to yourself, your gods and your people.

Justice desires the Druid understands everyone has an inherent worth and that an assault to that worth demands recompense in one form or another.

Courage for the Druid does not always wear a public face; it is standing-strong-in-the-face-of-adversity, alone or with companions. Sometimes Courage is getting up and going about a daily routine when pain has worn one down without complaint or demur."

For me this is both a moral and spiritual code. Is it my religion? It is a part of it, i do practice the religious traditions of my people also which tend to reflect the beauty of the natural order of things than an "i am thy god bow down before me" sort of thing.

_____________________________

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RE: Faith, Religion, or Spirituality - 7/30/2006 6:04:49 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Rightly or wrongly....

I define *Spirit* as the feelings and character of a person..the part of a person that is not their body; their emotional life, makes them joyous, makes them sorrowful and everything in between, good and not so good.

*Faith* is described in the OED as.... *having complete trust and confidence*....and this is something that I can place in things that I've a fair amount of evidence that it's reliable enough to do so..... So not a God or gods......but that my car will start, the moon will rise, my grass will dry out if we don't get rain soon.

I have a problem with *blind faith*.

*Religion*  I see as an organised or ritual form of anything.

SO.......in answer to the OP...* What drives your behaviour?*.......

I think it's simply a mixture of how I view the world, the things I see as being a *decent* person, responsibility of different kinds, what gives me pleasure and what gives those around me pleasure, if I influence that. How I FEEL certainly influences my behaviour but I try not to let it DRIVE it, as such.

agirl

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