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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


A quick answer to a question that deserves a far longer one:  Iraq was an awful mistake which we (the U.S.) bear the full responsibility for.  We are stuck there.

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Hippies?  I think the '60's are over.

They are far from over. The shallow thinking of the hippies infests government now that that generation is over 40 and they dont trust anyone who doesnt believe what they believe in.

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

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That all being said we are there now and we have stirred up a hornet's nest in Pakistan by being there, and those nukes are everybody's business. What is going to happen when the Pakistanis and Indians start chucking nukes back and forth, do you really think it isn't going to have a major effect on the rest of the world.

I seriously doubt that India would sit passively and allow the rise of a jihadist nuclear state on their border. Do you forget that India has an Army?

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We created the fucking present mess in Afghani-Pakistan and it behooves us to try our damnedest to set things right, however foredoomed to failure that attempt may be. How to solve it? Buggerd if I know, but I am darn sure that pulling out and letting them sort it out amongst themselves is the worst of all possible scenarios.

Foredoomed to failure you say, so we should send more troops into southeast asia you say? Who was it? Was it Eisenhower who warned never get involved in a land war in Asia. We do not have the resources pure and simple. Neither treasury nor troops enough.

Let them sort it out themselves for a change, say I.

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That's how they fight over there, they don't stand up when you are strong, they run away then, and come back when you aren't looking. The Afghans perfected guerrilla warfare back when wars were fought with rocks and pointed sticks. Maybe the route is to play by their rules, to pour in our unconventional warfare types and back them up with the US's unassailable command of the air...become the baddest asses in a country of bad asses...maybe then they will start to pay attention and try to actually come to terms, when they all start to feel that they are individually in mortal danger at all times, that their lives aren't worth spit anymore...that they are all effectively marked men. Never mind going after Achmed the local recruit...send in the experts, the one's who excel at doing "Very unpleasant things to very unpleasant people".

This seems a reasonable alternative if (a damn big if) we should be involved at all militarily.

Keep in mind the logistics, please. Afchoastan is the world's third poorest nation. It is a failed narco state corrupt from the top down by Western standards. Warjiristan is the size of California and mountainous. Pakistan lies beyond. Realistically, more than we can handle. Additional Obama troops will be wasted. And in ten years from now, "Oh shit, sorry about that. Another political and military mistake."

Alternative? Draft a million man army. Think that will be popular? Don't think so.

_____________________________

vincent....

Where would we be without the agitators of the world attaching the electrodes of knowledge to the nipples of ignorance? I ask you.

(in reply to Arpig)

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I find it... telling... that you dont mention any other's BULLSHIT (your emphasis) than Obama's.  Care to explain?

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ORIGINAL: looking4princess


Foredoomed to failure you say, so we should send more troops into southeast asia you say? Who was it? Was it Eisenhower who warned never get involved in a land war in Asia. We do not have the resources pure and simple. Neither treasury nor troops enough.

Let them sort it out themselves for a change, say I.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Point taken my friend. What are your views on the invasion of Iraq when the main culprits of 9/11 were still running free ?  I ask in all seriousness as I think the Iraq war has caused a disaster both there and in Afghanistan.

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So much for that moral high ground.

Forgive me if I don't join the partisan celebration as blood runs through the streets.

chia* (the pet)

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Qaeda-linked group claims Baghdad bomb attacks

DUBAI (Reuters) – An al Qaeda-linked group has said it carried out the twin suicide bombings that killed 155 people in Baghdad on Sunday and revived doubts about security in the run-up to Iraq's elections in January.

The statement dated October 26 was posted by the Islamic State in Iraq group on a website often used by militants to announce responsibility for such attacks.

"Suicide bombers targeted the dens of infidelity and pillars of the rejectionist Shi'ite state in the land of the caliphate," the statement said.

It employed language often used by Sunni Arab militants to describe the Shi'ite Muslim majority that has dominated the Iraqi government since the U.S.-led invasion of 2003.

"Among the chosen targets were the ministry of oppression known as the ministry of justice and the Baghdad provincial assembly ... The enemies only understand the language of force," said the statement.

The authenticity of the claim could not be immediately verified.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091027/ts_nm/us_iraq_violence_claim_4

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ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

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Iraq is an arbitrary country created by the British in 1926 that encompasses three hostile groups who would all prefer to be part of some other (or their own) country. It will never hold together in the long term. It's been held together by force ever since. Even the brutal tyranny of Saddam Hussein was only a stop-gap measure to the eventual disintegration of the country. Our mistake was walking in and getting involved. There is no pretty solution.

This was well documented in such magazines as The Atlantic before the invasion. No big secret. Just amazing the arrogance of the Bushies to ignore reality and recreate their own.

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Regarding Al Qaeda, fighting them (or any terrorist group) with an army is like trying to fight roaches with a hammer. You might kill a few but the rest will scuttle away and you'll knock the room apart trying and failing to get them. That's almost exactly what we're doing. General McChrystal himself admits he sees no signs of a major Al-Qaeda presence in Afghanistan. That's because if you're a terrorist or guerrilla group and the army shows up you leave. That's the whole point of being a guerrilla force.

The 9/11 attacks were planned in Germany. Blowing Afghanistan apart in early 2001 wouldn't have stopped them. While I'm not confident where Al-Qaeda's leadership is operating from now, the suspicions I've heard are Somalia or the Sudan. Invading either of those countries wouldn't stop Al-Qaeda either. They would re-locate someplace else.

Successful operations against terrorist groups are fought with espionage and counter-insurgency forces - such as the CIA or the NSA. <SNIP>

Love the roach analogy IB. And again, our leaders are fools if they think to fight a stateless Guerrilla force with conventional troops and armament



_____________________________

vincent....

Where would we be without the agitators of the world attaching the electrodes of knowledge to the nipples of ignorance? I ask you.

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Hippies?  I think the '60's are over.

They are far from over. The shallow thinking of the hippies infests government now that that generation is over 40 and they dont trust anyone who doesnt believe what they believe in.

Really, Obama was a hippie?  And Rahm?  A bit too young don't you think?  Or is this the new conservative buzz-word for everyone they disagree with?

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ORIGINAL: looking4princess

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I find it... telling... that you dont mention any other's BULLSHIT (your emphasis) than Obama's.  Care to explain?

Oh, there is plenty of bullshit to spread around. I am pointing the finger at Obama now only because I fear he is about to make the same mistake that was made previously - sending American boys and girls to die on Asian soil needlessly.

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

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ORIGINAL: looking4princess

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I find it... telling... that you dont mention any other's BULLSHIT (your emphasis) than Obama's.  Care to explain?

Oh, there is plenty of bullshit to spread around. I am pointing the finger at Obama now only because I fear he is about to make the same mistake that was made previously - sending American boys and girls to die on Asian soil needlessly.

And in the deadliest month in the Afhganistan war, he finds time to attack his critics, but cant find the time to make up his mind on saving those boys and girls.

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ORIGINAL: Sanity


Tell me again who destroyed the World Trade Center.

quote:

Qaeda-linked group claims Baghdad bomb attacks

DUBAI (Reuters) – An al Qaeda-linked group has said it carried out the twin suicide bombings that killed 155 people in Baghdad on Sunday and revived doubts about security in the run-up to Iraq's elections in January.

The statement dated October 26 was posted by the Islamic State in Iraq group on a website often used by militants to announce responsibility for such attacks.

"Suicide bombers targeted the dens of infidelity and pillars of the rejectionist Shi'ite state in the land of the caliphate," the statement said.

It employed language often used by Sunni Arab militants to describe the Shi'ite Muslim majority that has dominated the Iraqi government since the U.S.-led invasion of 2003.

"Among the chosen targets were the ministry of oppression known as the ministry of justice and the Baghdad provincial assembly ... The enemies only understand the language of force," said the statement.

The authenticity of the claim could not be immediately verified.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091027/ts_nm/us_iraq_violence_claim_4

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

hippie? ... is this the new conservative buzz-word for everyone they disagree with?

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Car bomb kills 93 in Pakistani city of Peshawar


PESHAWAR, Pakistan – A car bomb struck a busy market in northwestern Pakistan on Wednesday, killing 93 people — mostly women and children — as visiting Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton pledged U.S. support for Islamabad's campaign against Islamic militants.


More than 200 people were wounded in the blast in the main northwestern city of Peshawar, the deadliest in a surge of attacks by suspected insurgents this month. The government blamed militants seeking to avenge an army offensive launched this month against al-Qaida and Taliban in their stronghold close to the Afghan border.


The bombing was the deadliest since explosions hit homecoming festivities for former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto in Karachi in October 2007, killing about 150 people. Bhutto was later slain in a separate attack.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091028/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan