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Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 9:10:15 AM   
GotSteel


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Status: offline 		This subject came up in another thread, maybe it deserves it's own. Is Scientology a religion what's the definition of a religion?

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 9:15:45 AM   
subtlebutterfly


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Status: offline 		I'd rather consider it to be a cult.
It's actually mostly just in the USA where it's held to a very religious status..not really in other countries. I don't agree with it as a religion. A religion is based upon a belief of a higher power...I'm not able to see that connection in scientology.


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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 9:58:33 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

A religion is based upon a belief of a higher power...



Not by definition:


re⋅li⋅gion

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.


(Dictionary.com Unabridged)

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/28/2009 9:59:47 AM >

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 10:08:49 AM   
subtlebutterfly


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Status: offline 		per your quoting: a set of beliefs [...] "especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies"[...]

Main Entry: re·li·gionPronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\Function: noun Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at relyDate: 13th century 1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith— re·li·gion·less adjective
(merriam webster)



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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 10:11:47 AM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Tuesday in Paris the French branch of the Church of Scientology was convicted of fraud and fined nearly 900,000 Dollars( or I ,assume its equivalent in Euros)The Church was not banned as the prosecution had demanded.The Church will appeal.

Edited to add....Tom Cruise could not be reached by this poster for a comment

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 10/28/2009 10:12:12 AM >

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 10:17:49 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Scientology is recognised as a religion by the IRS after carrying out an extensive PR campaign, but "Canada, France, Germany, Greece, Belgium and the United Kingdom, refuse to grant Scientology religious recognition." Wiki.

When you think about it though, it's as wacko as any religion out there, and it's definitely a commercial venture, so why not?

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 10:36:53 AM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		France the country that elevated Jerry Lewis to a comic God...has declared Scientology a fraud......as far as I am concerned Case Closed.

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 10:41:21 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		No, Mikey. France has FINED the C of S for fraud. There is a difference :-) .

PS: religion is a fraud.

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 10:46:13 AM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		A small(though not insignificant)difference.It made for a better post my way Kittin.
I'm curious...if I hadn't taken the Jerry Lewis shot at France would you have corrected me

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 10:47:39 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		France was going to dismantle it, then found out they couldnt... tsk tsk.

PARIS (AFP) – A French court fined the Church of Scientology on Tuesday for defrauding vulnerable followers, but officials voiced regret that a recent change in the law prevented France from banning it outright.
Scientology's Celebrity Centre and its bookshop in Paris, the two branches of its French operations, were ordered to pay 600,000 euros (900,000 dollars) in fines for preying financially on its followers in the 1990s.
Alain Rosenberg, the French leader of a movement best known for its Hollywood followers Tom Cruise and John Travolta, was handed a two-year suspended jail sentence and fined 30,000 euros on the same charge.
"Religious freedom is in danger in this country," said Celebrity Centre spokesman Eric Roux after the verdict, urging France to "recognise the legality of the Church of Scientology."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091027/ts_afp/francetrialscientology_20091027111831

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 10:49:07 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		No, it definitely isn't a religion. It exists purely as an authoritarian framework wrapped around dianetics*, so it has more in common with therapy cults like EST or the process.

*(Which is either an oddly refined form of psychotherapy involving a lie detector, or a method used to extract information that can be used to blackmail the patient once the therapy is done.)

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 10:49:37 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I'm curious...if I hadn't taken the Jerry Lewis shot at France would you have corrected me


Oh, my hand is itching... oh, you're SO lucky.

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 2:52:34 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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"A religion is a system of human thought which usually includes a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power, deity or deities, or ultimate truth. "

It qualifies, but then again many things qualify.

Not sure why this topic was started, as there is a lot of source material on the internet. Seems like just another "religion is a fraud" set up to me. Why people are so concerned about what others do, is beyond my understanding.

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 2:54:01 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Why people are so concerned about what others do, is beyond my understanding.


Right back atcha then  .

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/28/2009 2:58:10 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Not sure why this topic was started, as there is a lot of source material on the internet. Seems like just another "religion is a fraud" set up to me. Why people are so concerned about what others do, is beyond my understanding.

There's a legal issue in this case, as the recent French fraud trial makes clear. You'd be cool with them letting Bernie Madoff out and just telling him not to do it again?

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/29/2009 7:50:15 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		There is a scientology 'shop' in my city, a big frontage lined with books by L.Ron Hubbard. Inside there are two people at desks and no one else. Never have I seen anyone in there other than the two people at their desk, so what they are selling, obviously is of no interest to the public, yet given our financial climate, the shop stays open, when so many around with customers close.

But the books they have lining their window I have noticed, all books, the same title, 'scientology ' by L. Ron Hubbard. I got to wondering, in scientology, where does L. Ron Hubbard stand, is he a prophet or a God, bearing in mind he created this twentieth century philosophy.

But, if he has found something that makes sense, fair play to him, but like all 'religions', things go pear shaped when you let the loonies in, and all through history, every cult that became a religion and gained notoriety, was because the loonies got in because they knew they could control people via their beliefs.

Take any religion in this present day, any that has come from history, what do they all have in common, perchance might it be a hierachy that interprets and by that controls the thoughts of the devout. If in the case of Christianity, Jesus was reported to have disliked organised religion, how come christianity has become one, simple, they let the loonies in to manipulate the words to suit their selves.





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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/29/2009 8:23:25 PM   
housesub4you


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  • Has not every religion started out the same way???   Prove me wrong!..... There is really no truth to any of them, so whatever floats your boat.  It is all based on things that can never be proven, all religion is fake...But some think theirs is the only true one.and hence all the wars

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/29/2009 8:29:08 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
There's a legal issue in this case, as the recent French fraud trial makes clear. You'd be cool with them letting Bernie Madoff out and just telling him not to do it again?


No saying that Scientology meets the legal criteria for tax exempt status is different from saying that it meets these criteria: "2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion."

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/29/2009 8:57:40 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
But, if he has found something that makes sense, fair play to him


Yeah.......sense......not so much......The Xenu story


Also, the more recent attempts at founding a religion (the ones we actually have documentation of) generally haven't been started by bastions of sanity.

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/29/2009 9:43:30 PM   
housesub4you


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Status: offline 		But  what proof is offered that any religion is real?  This should be there defense; make all religions offer fact over belief and see what happens



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