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RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 6:04:41 AM

gift4mistress

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If you're against people who want small government; small taxes, representatives that clearly represent the people, pro-capitalism, anti-corporatism, anti strong unions, and the Constitution you're either a socialist or a fascist. These ideals are traditional American values and aren't the values of a communist or a fascist.

< Message edited by gift4mistress -- 11/4/2009 6:07:14 AM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 21

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 6:38:02 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gift4mistress

If you're against people who want small government; small taxes, representatives that clearly represent the people, pro-capitalism, anti-corporatism, anti strong unions, and the Constitution you're either a socialist or a fascist. These ideals are traditional American values and aren't the values of a communist or a fascist.

So according to you basically every politician elected to national office in the last 100 years in the US was either a socialist or a fascist. Seems odd that no one but you noticed that all those great patriots were opposed to 'traditional American values.' Or maybe you have no idea what you are talking about.

(in reply to gift4mistress)

Post #: 22

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 7:18:21 AM

Musicmystery

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

If you're against people who want ... representatives that clearly represent the people

Well, that eliminates the Conservatives--who lost in the 23rd because they chased the Republican people wanted out of the race.

Seems we've gone from asking "where are the twue Doms" and "twue subs" to "where are the "twue Repubwicans" -- and with no better logic.

(in reply to gift4mistress)

Post #: 23

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 7:51:26 AM

MarsBonfire

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But, to return to the original topic... yes, it seems the teabaggers are taking over the GOP. Moderates are being targeted, and soon the Republicans will be known as the "Raving Loony Party." Soon, probably well before the 2010 midterms, they will be seen by the general voting public as unelectable.

What we are looking at here is the death of the GOP. What is rising in it's place is some thuggish, slope headed, racist THING that will utterly destroy any kind of real debate on the issues.

We're heading into a dark age of American Politics, folks. And this whole Glenn Beck/ teabagger "movement" (in the same sense as a bowel movement) is what is causing it. The mob carrying pitchforks and torches will have it's day, it seems.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 24

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 7:57:53 AM

servantforuse

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This is not the death of the GOP. They are just going back to the more conservative basics of the party.

(in reply to MarsBonfire)

Post #: 25

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 8:04:34 AM

MarsBonfire

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Oh, if only that were true. But what's happening is that the moderates are being tossed out on their asses, and nutcase extremists are taking their places. (Watch "Invasion of the Bodysnatchers" for a good anology) What this is going to do to the GOP in the long run is paint them as the "nutcase" party. The Conservatives seem to stand for:

GOD: you will pray to who WE tell you to.
GUNS: Do as we say or we'll shoot you.
BIGOTRY: We're racists, sexists, and haters of all stripes... and we're proud of it.

Good luck with that.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 26

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 8:08:14 AM

servantforuse

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I guess that independents must think the same way as the new GOP. They are the ones who threw the democrats out of 2 State houses last night. The pendulum has begun it's swing back to the right.

(in reply to MarsBonfire)

Post #: 27

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 8:09:40 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

This is not the death of the GOP. They are just going back to the more conservative basics of the party.

No, "they" aren't.

"They" are being opposed by the far right teabagger nutcases who want to run their own candidates.

So explain to me how that is not going to cause a huge rift that will fracture the party.

We've already seen the first evidence of it in upstate New York where the vote was split and a Democrat elected.

More to come.

My prediction is the teabaggers will not stop at trying to run their own candidate within the party but will eventually try to run their own third-party candidates which will take away the Republican's conservative base.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 28

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 8:27:32 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I guess that independents must think the same way as the new GOP. They are the ones who threw the democrats out of 2 State houses last night. The pendulum has begun it's swing back to the right.

Not necessarily, historically, mid-govs are usually elected in greater numbers in the opposite party of the president.... I don't see any 'swing' as of yet, to say this is somehow meaningful, there has to be the strong sense of a rout. I also note that cannibalizing has cost them a long time seat in NY, as expected.........there are other squabbles like that going on, and Houston(that's Texas mind you) has a shot at a first openly gay mayor.......

I don't see the shock and awe yet, color me unruffled.

R

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 29

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 8:30:55 AM

Musicmystery

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Actually, the vote wasn't even truly split in the end. Conservatives forced a choice between their "true" Conservative and the Democrat, eliminating the so-called "rino." So Republicans who haven't elected a non-Republican representative since the Whig party in the 19th century chose the Democrat, primarily because of concerns about the hard line stances of the Conservative candidate.

These are conservative leaning Republicans, yes, but they aren't stupid, and they don't like to be told what they think. When a candidate runs on a platform of "we don't care whom you've chosen, we're replacing her," it's not surprising that voters doubt he'll represent their interests.

Hell, the Republican candidate even had the support of the Unions! I mean...that doesn't happen often, especially in New York!

It was a bald-faced coup attempt. The people were just peons in the way. So the peons chose the only candidate left who would actually strive to represent their interests.

Essentially, an outsider invader was repulsed.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/4/2009 8:32:45 AM >

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 30

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 9:07:57 AM

AnimusRex

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gift4mistress

If you're against people who want small government; small taxes, representatives that clearly represent the people, pro-capitalism, anti-corporatism, anti strong unions, and the Constitution you're either a socialist or a fascist. These ideals are traditional American values and aren't the values of a communist or a fascist.

See, this is why I have no love for the Tea Party- I AM in favor of small government, low taxes, pro-capitalism, anti-corporatism....

except the Tea Party is not. Not seriously, that is.
Examples-
1. The Tea Party claims to want limited government; yet they lustily cheer on the enlargement of the Executive power in anti-terror programs; for instance, under the Cheny/Addington/Yoo theory of the Unified Executive, the President has nearly unlimited power to spy on Americans and detain American without due process; in what way is this "limited" government?
2. The Tea Party claims to want fiscal conservatism; Fiscal conservatism means a balanced budget. Yet the Tea Party enthusiastically embraces all our foreign wars, which demand massive defense spending. There simply is no way to achieve a balanced budget and fight foreign wars at the same time.
3. The Tea Party claims to be pro-capitalism; yet they seem to have no trouble with agricultural subsidies, giveaways of government land for mining at below market rates, insurance company monopolies and "no bid" government contracts without competitive bidding. These are all anti-capitalist measures.

So maybe someone can explain to me what the Tea Party conservatives actually believe in. From what I can see, all they really have is a deep hatred of Obama, and all the talk of "liberty" and "capitalism" is just a collection of buzzwords and bumper sticker slogans without any real thought.

< Message edited by AnimusRex -- 11/4/2009 9:08:59 AM >

(in reply to gift4mistress)

Post #: 31

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 9:32:58 AM

Moonhead

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That's something that really puzzled me about the Emperor Bush's reign, Animus: the lad actually had libertarians voting for him, but did more to extend the size and powers of the Government than any President since Kennedy. Not even Reagan went quite as far into adding laughably unconstitutional powers to the executive branch, did he?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 32

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 9:55:24 AM

Scheherazade

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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Oops

(in reply to gift4mistress)

Post #: 33

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 11:23:49 AM

AnimusRex

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Moonhead-
Actually, many who brand themselves as libertarians are anything but. John Cole at the blog Balloonjuice calls them "glibertarians"; they are essentially Wall Street Republicans who support abortion rights and marijuana legalization.

What most on the Right don't seem to get, is that the threat to free market capitalism no longer comes from Communist agitators; Communism has died as a political force.
The real threat to a free market economy comes from the Wall Street/ Washington axis. Businesses do not have principles or beliefs; they only have interests, and when their interests clash with competition and transparency and fairness, their interests win, every time.

Halliburton, KBR, Archer Daniels Midland, Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, Goldman Sachs....these are not free market John Galtian independent companies- these are teat sucking welfare cases, as competitive as Soviet tractor factories.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 34

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 11:42:26 AM

Moonhead

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Joined: 9/21/2009
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Thanks, I didn't realise these people aren't really libertarians at all. That'd certainly clear up the matter of them supporting Bush.

I always find it very strange that the people who take such a dismissive attitude to wellfare spending have no problems with public money being used to prop up a blue chip company.
Maybe they're more into Heinlein than Rand? He was always big on special cases where people could do one thing while saying another, and obviously believed that there was an elect who the rest of the world owed a living because they were vastly better than everybody else...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 35

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 12:28:48 PM

willbeurdaddy

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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

This is brilliant. Simply brilliant. The people who brought you Sarah Palin have decided that the reason nobody in America takes them seriously is because they aren't quite crazy enough yet.

Simply brilliant.

said with an apparently straight face by someone who supports a party that lauds Mark Grayson.....a party so divided it can't get itself together enough to present a bill that comes close to having approvAl within the party. Get your own fucking house in order.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 36

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 12:47:36 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

What most on the Right don't seem to get, is that the threat to free market capitalism no longer comes from Communist agitators; Communism has died as a political force.
The real threat to a free market economy comes from the Wall Street/ Washington axis. Businesses do not have principles or beliefs; they only have interests, and when their interests clash with competition and transparency and fairness, their interests win, every time.

Halliburton, KBR, Archer Daniels Midland, Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, Goldman Sachs....these are not free market John Galtian independent companies- these are teat sucking welfare cases, as competitive as Soviet tractor factories.

To which we add the Palinist coup plans....

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 37

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 12:51:09 PM

cuckyman

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Joined: 3/25/2009
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Carl Marx was a loser...and the idea of the collective is a dry hole....this nation was founded on personal and economic FREEDOM...period....either give me liberty, or give me death....and I assure you blood will flow like a river before this nation becomes socialist..... it has happened before, and it will happen again.... and free men and women are armed to the teeth awaiting the time when a Marxist puke is elected by a rigged ACORN type election, and the explosion of violence would begin.... count on it!

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 38

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 12:56:50 PM

Musicmystery

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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Actually, Marx predicted violent class wars...

In this case, though, local people who value their freedom made their independent choices, rejecting the Palinists who tried to force their own narrow and unbending nationalist agenda on the district by stealing the seat.

They forced a hard-right or nothing choice, and the Palinists were sent packing.

(in reply to cuckyman)

Post #: 39

RE: Uncivil War: Conservatives to challenge a dozen GOP... - 11/4/2009 1:02:58 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

Carl Marx was a loser...and the idea of the collective is a dry hole....this nation was founded on personal and economic FREEDOM...period....either give me liberty, or give me death....and I assure you blood will flow like a river before this nation becomes socialist..... it has happened before, and it will happen again.... and free men and women are armed to the teeth awaiting the time when a Marxist puke is elected by a rigged ACORN type election, and the explosion of violence would begin.... count on it!

You are Chuck Norris, and I claim my five pounds.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to cuckyman)

Post #: 40

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