RE: 10.4% Unemployment

RE: 10.4% Unemployment (Full Version)

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UncleNasty -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 6:58:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow I do not really see what exactly would drive the economy upwards. Job-less or job-loss recovery of course is a fiction in consumer driven economy. Some predict L shape economy with double digits unemployment for 10 years. Blaming Obama is unfair; the seeds for the crisis were planted several decades ago. It would require fundamental structural changes in the long-term economic model to turn things around. Regrettably US government is unfit to introduce long-term solutions. Things need to totally collapse first. I am not saying though this crisis is the turning point. The elites may invent some trick that would produce an another bubble and keep things going for some more years under the current rules. So, be happy unemployment is only 10+ % but not 20+ %. Christmas season sales data may bring some unpleasant consequences. Invest in prison industry, it will be booming if unemployment keeps rising. A brief hijack. And I offer no apologies for it. Having a "prison industry," heck even having the words "prison industry" in the lexicon, is really, really fucked up. Uncle Nasty

LookieNoNookie -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 7:00:58 AM)
While several states have posted much higher unemployment rates, the federal rate is actually 10.2%.

Musicmystery -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 7:41:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: At some point, production will restart and require workers. Faith based political agenda based; unless you can point to when, and more importantly why? There is no drive to purchase, and no cash to do so. Low inventories are just that - low inventory. Unemployment is 10.4% and rising. Underemployment is approaching 20% Who from these groups will be creating demand? Consumer confidence is down. You are ignoring the point, as well as ascribing beliefs I don't hold. I've many concerns--but that's not a reason to ignore basics. You keep repeating this like there's no demand. Obviously, there is, as there still is an economy, there still are sales, and there still is demand (you're also confusing "demand" with "quantity demanded," but probably not worth arguing the distinction). Demand doesn't have to be created--it exists. You are talking about increasing quantity demanded as if it were demand, and as if we're starting from no quantity demanded. That we even have sales figures, however low, exposes your error. Quantity demanded doesn't even have to increase to eventually boost production. When the existing stock is depleted, production will be necessary, and so will workers to produce it. To maintain that because we can't specify (although economists certain could) exactly when that will happen it will never happen is patently ridiculous. To maintain there will never be increased demand because you can't pinpoint where and why is also ridiculous. To ridicule it as "faith based" is childish. You really think no one will ever have good ideas again, ever, and put them to practical application? Well, if you do, then fine. Better quit your job now, before it all completely sours, cash out your retirement and other investments, and change that dream of owning a vineyard to farming food crops. When you do, though, don't trade any with your neighbors. That would be economic activity--you'd have created demand, and that's against your rules. Such disingenuousness. You know, we could have interesting, productive discussions about the economy instead of this nonsense. That would take actual thinking and analysis, though. Perhaps that's the missing piece for you.

openmindedslave -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 7:53:15 AM)
I will stand corrected if this has also been discussed already in an earlier entry ,, 10.4 % unemplyment is a general national unemployment number. In the minority work force that the percentage has been reported to be over 15% if you break down the numbers according to being black in our society.

Musicmystery -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 7:55:35 AM)
Oh, higher than that. Some number crunchers have unemployment at 17.5%. [See stories in the bias challenge thread]

Mercnbeth -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 6:56:40 PM)
quote: To maintain there will never be increased demand because you can't pinpoint where and why is also ridiculous. To ridicule it as "faith based" is childish. You really think no one will ever have good ideas again, ever, and put them to practical application? Saying its going to happen not knowing how or why defines faith based. You want to have an "interesting, productive discussions about the economy instead of this nonsense."? You'll have to have a position not faith based. Now your basing your positive result on someone having a "good idea again". That isn't faith based? I await your something besides that and s "actual thinking and analysis". I gave mine, based upon the references given in the OP. Nothing has been posted to the contrary other than a position that someone will think of something, and there will be more demand coming from some source, just because inventories are down. That it?

Musicmystery -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 7:10:23 PM)
Okie dokie. There will never be economic activity ever again, because no one can predict the future. About as smart as supply-siders maintaining that "supply creates demand," but they certainly cling to it faithfully, and you will no doubt do the same.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 7:44:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Okie dokie. There will never be economic activity ever again, because no one can predict the future. About as smart as supply-siders maintaining that "supply creates demand," but they certainly cling to it faithfully, and you will no doubt do the same. ROFL. You obviously dont have a clue what supply side economics is.

Brain -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 7:50:32 PM)
There is something seriously wrong here, all of the money they are making and they don' t have the decency to reinvest in the economy and higher people. How much greed is enough? What a bunch of disingenuous greedy phonies, all they ever care about is making more and more money, it's never enough. Large corporations sitting on piles of cash http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/08/BU4N1AG9FO.DTL

willbeurdaddy -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 7:53:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain There is something seriously wrong here, all of the money they are making and they don' t have the decency to reinvest in the economy and higher people. How much greed is enough? What a bunch of disingenuous greedy phonies, all they ever care about is making more and more money, it's never enough. Large corporations sitting on piles of cash http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/08/BU4N1AG9FO.DTL Ahhhh, is that how you propose to "share the wealth"? Turn good businessmen into morons by having them make losing investments in an economy that is being dismantled day by day?

tazzygirl -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 7:54:58 PM)
LOL quote: But most U.S. executives lack enough confidence in the economy to expand their businesses. And as long as consumer spending is lagging too, that leaves the federal government straining to stimulate a recovery that is still struggling to gain speed. Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/08/BU4N1AG9FO.DTL#ixzz0WKa5uyRL So, lemme get this straight. They have the money to expand, but they are afraid the government isnt doing the "right" thing. Yet, there they sit on piles of cash that could stimulate the economy, and they are complaining because the government may not be doing the right thing. I think i got Master Tim's dizzy spell again.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 8:02:35 PM)
quote: So, lemme get this straight. They have the money to expand, but they are afraid the government isnt doing the "right" thing. Yet, there they sit on piles of cash that could stimulate the economy, and they are complaining because the government may not be doing the right thing. ORIGINAL: tazzygirl That's about the size of it, tazzy. Of course, if we were to lower their taxes, abolish regulations and promise them that we'll only make laws that will benefit them, they will start reinvesting, hire people and stimulate demand. All we have to do is bend over and spread 'em and the world will be right again. This is the core "conservative" economic theory and is one of the big reasons we're in this mess in the first place.

tazzygirl -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 8:11:28 PM)
Yet our small businesses have to go out of country to get financial support. Like katrina on a larger scale.

slvemike4u -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 8:14:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UncleNasty quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow I do not really see what exactly would drive the economy upwards. Job-less or job-loss recovery of course is a fiction in consumer driven economy. Some predict L shape economy with double digits unemployment for 10 years. Blaming Obama is unfair; the seeds for the crisis were planted several decades ago. It would require fundamental structural changes in the long-term economic model to turn things around. Regrettably US government is unfit to introduce long-term solutions. Things need to totally collapse first. I am not saying though this crisis is the turning point. The elites may invent some trick that would produce an another bubble and keep things going for some more years under the current rules. So, be happy unemployment is only 10+ % but not 20+ %. Christmas season sales data may bring some unpleasant consequences. Invest in prison industry, it will be booming if unemployment keeps rising. A brief hijack. And I offer no apologies for it. Having a "prison industry," heck even having the words "prison industry" in the lexicon, is really, really fucked up. Uncle Nasty No more fucked up than having a for profit health care industry!

zenny -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 8:32:24 PM)
They are both extremely fundamentally different. One such way is that society needs to keep itself running - that means keep the bad apples out or in line, not keeping you alive.

slvemike4u -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 8:41:19 PM)
Privatizing prisons and turning that into a for profit industry does tend to say something about us as a society.....as does allowing health care to remain so.

rulemylife -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 8:46:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain There is something seriously wrong here, all of the money they are making and they don' t have the decency to reinvest in the economy and higher people. I wish they would higher me. Sounds like a win-win deal to me. I can get high and get paid all at the same time.

gift4mistress -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 9:16:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex Did anyone think that Obama would be sworn in on January 20, and within a few months wave a magic wand and return us to good times? The crash of 1929 took over a full decade to recover from. So, here we are ripping at each others throats (right vs. left), while the very top continues to get away with murder at the highest level. Many people point out that Obama is not at fault for the current economic situation which is justified. However, I find it to be disgraceful and naive to think that Obama isn't continuing the same policies that the last 3 or 4 administrations have continued. For instance, Obama wants to give more economic power to our wonderful central bank known as the Federal Reserve. This is the same bank that Bush of course gave more power to while in office, and is also the same bank that caused the most recent economic bust. In fact, this bank and their inflationary/fiat monetary policies have caused practically every recession/depression since its formation from the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Lastly, what some of you are refusing to acknowledge, is that Obama is working for the same bankers and corporations that Bush worked for. Yet, all of you claim that Obama is moving our nation toward the right direction which is either a hope based on fallacy thinking or a hope based off of ignorance. In all, how do you figure that the same people who caused this mess is somehow going to be the same people that get us out? And, what incentive exists for they (elites) have to look out for the common man? To answer your question AnimusRex, I don't think Obama will use a magic wand to fix our economy, but rather, he will use it to extend the power of the Federal Reserve and its allies.

Silence8 -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 10:08:53 PM)
I know all you "post-modern" consumerists and economist fetishists will laugh at me for being old-fashioned and out of step, but this would be a great time to seize the means of production. We should start first with seizing control over the "production" of virtual wealth, namely, control over banking. Putting real industry aside for the moment, profit motive in this virtual (fake) industry promotes the polarization of society and the over-accumulation of resources at the upper end. Waste and pollution become social values. Like fruit, this wealth and these resources spoil over time, and overall quality of life suffers as a consequence. If only gold and diamonds were to spoil, there would be no place for atlas-shruggers to run to... Let's admit that Obama's policies promote this polarization about as much as previous Republican policies. The difference between the parties appear at times just a prop for discussion and fog. The TARP funding, to give an example, was enacted under the Bush administration but with largely Democratic support in Congress. All this talk of endless growth, product and production appears conclusively buffoonish. At this stage in history, due to the incapacity of producers to know the effects of their production, there needs to be considerable regulation not necessarily to pamper humanity (the original poster seems to have said something to this effect? he jumps around) but to acknowledge mankind's collective role as the regulators of all nature, mankind included. We must know what is of value, such that virtual wealth (money) represents real wealth (our lives, our resources, our future, our aspirations...). If economic, political, and social resources were distributed fairly, decently, how much less production would need to occur to support ourselves?

elegantcdgoddess -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/8/2009 10:51:27 PM)
Well for years we were made to believe that outsourcing jobs to India is ok, for decades making little plastic toys was just too hard for us, so we make them in China. Maybe some of us who lost a job to indian call center werent too happy, but we surely do love to shop for cheap crap. Everything we buy, just go to local Walmart, and pick randomly 10 items, then tell me how many were made in USA? Our companies, same ones that we gave money directly or indirectly via banks, are not making shit in this country. So how exactly will we increase employment? But the question is how will Obama solve the problem, while we sit and do nothing? He wont, no president, or party, or member of federal or local gov't will. It is us who need reform not country. We need to look at that shirt and say, i am not buying this cheap crap made in India, i want will spend 100$ on a shirt made in the US, even if it is the only shirt i buy this year. Now if you will excuse me i need a glass of florida orange juice, made from Brazilian oj concentrate.

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