RE: 10.4% Unemployment

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xssve -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 4:52:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UncleNasty quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow I do not really see what exactly would drive the economy upwards. Job-less or job-loss recovery of course is a fiction in consumer driven economy. Some predict L shape economy with double digits unemployment for 10 years. Blaming Obama is unfair; the seeds for the crisis were planted several decades ago. It would require fundamental structural changes in the long-term economic model to turn things around. Regrettably US government is unfit to introduce long-term solutions. Things need to totally collapse first. I am not saying though this crisis is the turning point. The elites may invent some trick that would produce an another bubble and keep things going for some more years under the current rules. So, be happy unemployment is only 10+ % but not 20+ %. Christmas season sales data may bring some unpleasant consequences. Invest in prison industry, it will be booming if unemployment keeps rising. A brief hijack. And I offer no apologies for it. Having a "prison industry," heck even having the words "prison industry" in the lexicon, is really, really fucked up. Uncle Nasty You'll love this: http://dunwalke.com/contents.htm Check chapters 8 & 9. From Catherine Fitts at Solari

Musicmystery -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 5:42:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Okie dokie. There will never be economic activity ever again, because no one can predict the future. About as smart as supply-siders maintaining that "supply creates demand," but they certainly cling to it faithfully, and you will no doubt do the same. ROFL. You obviously dont have a clue what supply side economics is. Granted...today they've gone long past Says Law to "Just cut taxes and everything will magically cure itself." A faith based approach they've been trying for years...only to find the deficit rises (primarily because Lauffer's break point is an unknown, not an automatic revenue generator). An agrarian economic approach applied to an industrial society, one never designed for the externalities of modern markets.

Mercnbeth -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 6:42:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Okie dokie. There will never be economic activity ever again, because no one can predict the future. About as smart as supply-siders maintaining that "supply creates demand," but they certainly cling to it faithfully, and you will no doubt do the same. Not surprising that this is your only response. It's the only possible position when you hang your hat on "all is well" and "somebody will invent something" surrenders to the consequences of that position. It doesn't take a soothsayer to predict the future when all manufacturing jobs have moved off shore where production doesn't have to consider the depressive regulatory and environmental issues an USA manufacturing plant would incur to say - those jobs aren't coming back. Any ground breaking idea will not be implemented in the US where the knee jerk reaction of the bureaucratic system is to provide you a list of regulations as to why you can't build a factory, generate power, or start a business. Overcoming those major hurdles, you then have to jump through hiring hoops quotas, OSHA, AA/EEO, and promised mandatory health coverage. Manage to make a profit and you're labeled an exploitive and corrupt (see Walmart) business. Manage to turn too much of a profit and make more money than is socially acceptable as an individual and pay at a higher tax rate. That's the economic environment that creates initiative to invest in the USA and is the fertile ground for your "someone will invent something" faith?

Musicmystery -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 7:03:36 AM)
As I noted, I didn't say all is well. I said I had several concerns. I just don't think abandoning basic reality to justify your faith rant helps. Have fun in your economic collapse.

Mercnbeth -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 7:12:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery As I noted, I didn't say all is well. I said I had several concerns. I just don't think abandoning basic reality to justify your faith rant helps. Have fun in your economic collapse. Should I sink to your level and tell you have fun with your delusional faith based hope? Simple question MM, where's the substance? You obviously don't have any rebuttal, but it would be interesting to see what you base your faith or, at minimum, what your challenge is to my position which points to an economic collapse but doesn't seek it. I give it as a pragmatic and logical conclusion for the actions taken by this Administration. However my position is also faith based. Unlike you my faith is supported by historical examples and observation. I believe there won't be a change of philosophy. I believe that party identification religion will preclude you, or any of the faithful, from ever acknowledging reality. I have confident faith that supporting a person or party under these circumstances requires your faith. If not - you'd have substance and logic behind your position and not discount opposition with cries of 'Heresy!!' You know, the theoretical economists also said that the new health care bill will support small business. Here's more reality which you can faith base - disbelieve. It just doesn't make any business sense. The owner of New York's famed independent bookstore, The Strand -- which spends more than $1 million a year on health care for its 225 workers -- yesterday joined a growing chorus of businesses objecting to the House-backed health-care overhaul. "We already have a great plan" under private carrier Cigna, insisted Nancy Bass Wyden, granddaughter of Strand founder Benjamin Bass. "The way the House bill is now, our costs would increase," she said, adding that they already jumped 18 percent from last year. "Nothing in the bill has costs going down." According to Karen Ignagni, president and chief executive of America's Health Insurance Plans, an insurers trade group, the House bill "fails to bend the health-care cost curve and breaks the promise that those who like their current coverage can keep it." And that doesn't sit well with Bass Wyden, whose shop is a haven for seekers of rare and hard-to-find titles. "The American way is competition," she said. "But the House bill has us handcuffed. "We want to stay with our great health care." Mr. Bass, me, and other business owners won't be looking to add employees with yet another government regulation adding to our expenses as well as our ability to control costs. Forget it, the trend isn't positive and government actions are swinging it further downward. Unless of course you have sources and indicators that point in another direction. I'd love to read them.

Musicmystery -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 7:19:17 AM)
No, no, you've convinced me. Demand is dead. Long live the Depression.

rulemylife -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 7:33:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: elegantcdgoddess We need to look at that shirt and say, i am not buying this cheap crap made in India, i want will spend 100$ on a shirt made in the US, even if it is the only shirt i buy this year. Nice idea, but do you find anything made in the U.S. anymore? I used to be a big believer in buying American until it got to the point that you cannot even find certain products made here anymore.

Mercnbeth -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 7:51:07 AM)
quote: Nice idea, but do you find anything made in the U.S. anymore? I used to be a big believer in buying American until it got to the point that you cannot even find certain products made here anymore. RML, For good reason - PACS have paid Congress to insure that protectionist tariffs won't be implemented. Corporations have incentive to manufacture elsewhere and sell here. They're facing a problem now when the US market is shrinking but consider what's occurring globally. The bail out dollars given to banks and other financial investment sources are being invested outside the US. The goal is to create a new consumer base. To me it appears that target is China, described in some investment prospectus I've seen as the equivalent of the modern day California 'gold rush'. I was wondering why the DOW was increasing until I realized that the companies used for the DIA have their business interests offshore USA. It makes much more sense why the DOW is up while the recession in the US continues. Projections, for the first time, do not need a US consumer. Telling and scary about the US economic future. If they weren't on the PAC payroll Congress and the Administration could circumvent the plan. I used to think reciprocal tariffs and protectionist import quotes would suffice. However they may not go far enough. Any import tariff should include consideration for government subsidized health care in the producing countries. Unless/until we have the same nationalized coverage here. Whether I agree with the concept of national health coverage or how to implement it, doesn't change the pragmatic issue that must be addressed. Doubt my idea would pass PAC scrutiny, but it would be foolhardy not to consider it as a major contributing cause of the problem. There's never been a global 'level playing field' but it's never been this slanted against US manufacturing interests.

elegantcdgoddess -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 11:55:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Any ground breaking idea will not be implemented in the US where the knee jerk reaction of the bureaucratic system is to provide you a list of regulations as to why you can't build a factory, generate power, or start a business. Overcoming those major hurdles, you then have to jump through hiring hoops quotas, OSHA, AA/EEO, and promised mandatory health coverage. Manage to make a profit and you're labeled an exploitive and corrupt (see Walmart) business. Manage to turn too much of a profit and make more money than is socially acceptable as an individual and pay at a higher tax rate. That's the economic environment that creates initiative to invest in the USA and is the fertile ground for your "someone will invent something" faith? Well what do you suggest, we get rid of the osha, aa/eeo, health coverage, didnt we have that before in our history? Surely some people complained, but heck we made more cotton then on those southern plantations than we do today. Ok, ok, few whippings were needed. Walmart is exploitive and corruptive. I am sorry, they main business plan is "buy crap, sell to idiots in usa", add "treat employees as shit" and you have it all covered. Yes walmart is profitable, but i would hate to see that become the role model for successful American company. We know for years that they have no social responsibility, and that they will turn around for 1c cheaper product even if they supplier/american company goes to shit. So i dont blame them, i blame people who mindlessly shop there. How many of us actually feel comfortable wearing the t-shirt that was made in the company where women are raped? (dont give me the, well i cannot afford shirt like you crap, i had to buy that one) Sure taxes should be higher for those who make higher income. Take mine first. I live comfortably, and i think i should pay my price to the country. Sorry i can choose between american made toyota (give some incentives there), or tax the shit out of me for buying german car just because i love the smell of leather. But i am just a rich bitch, i am not the shareholder, and they mentality is bit different. They are greedy fuckers. I have nothing against profit, i love it, and i use it to improve my life daily, but i hate to see people/companies profit on other people misery. And all of us created civilization like that. From the ipod we listen, to the underwear we have. Why? Becaouse we are selfish, we "worked hard" for the money, and we want best deal. IF someone gets hurt in the way, well.... life is not fair, deal with it. Pathetic isn't it.

elegantcdgoddess -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 11:57:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: elegantcdgoddess We need to look at that shirt and say, i am not buying this cheap crap made in India, i want will spend 100$ on a shirt made in the US, even if it is the only shirt i buy this year. Nice idea, but do you find anything made in the U.S. anymore? I used to be a big believer in buying American until it got to the point that you cannot even find certain products made here anymore. Just tell me what are you looking for? trust me there are some amazing items made here, in Canada, west europe etc. By skilled well paid people.

slvemike4u -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 12:36:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Okie dokie. There will never be economic activity ever again, because no one can predict the future. About as smart as supply-siders maintaining that "supply creates demand," but they certainly cling to it faithfully, and you will no doubt do the same. Not surprising that this is your only response. It's the only possible position when you hang your hat on "all is well" and "somebody will invent something" surrenders to the consequences of that position. While I wont pretend to have the answers your post has generated,in my mind at least some questions.... It doesn't take a soothsayer to predict the future when all manufacturing jobs have moved off shore where production doesn't have to consider the depressive regulatory and environmental issues an USA manufacturing plant would incur to say - those jobs aren't coming back. Any ground breaking idea will not be implemented in the US where the knee jerk reaction of the bureaucratic system is to provide you a list of regulations as to why you can't build a factory, generate power, or start a business.So whats the alternative here ...let entrepenuers run amok ,build where they choose and what they choose...impacting the enviorment any which way they choose? Overcoming those major hurdles, you then have to jump through hiring hoops quotas, OSHA, AA/EEO, and promised mandatory health coverage. Again what is the alternative allowing the business owner to disregard all safety concerns and enviormental impact studies...we have seen in the past that the profit margin leaves little room for nagging little concerns such as clean water and toxic spillsManage to make a profit and you're labeled an exploitive and corrupt (see Walmart) business.This is nonsense...if Sam walmart has an image problem he has earned it and not simply by exploiting his workers but by exploiting communities by dint of driving out of business all competing mom and pop operations...you know the very same small business types that are supposed bear the brunt of driving this economy Manage to turn too much of a profit and make more money than is socially acceptable as an individual and pay at a higher tax rate.Key word here is "make more money"...how does more equate to less...as it seems to do in most all of your posts. That's the economic environment that creates initiative to invest in the USA and is the fertile ground for your "someone will invent something" faith? Bottom line despite your chicken little economic outlook there will always be those who by dint of hard work and inventivness will strive to get ahead and invest both their time and efforts into worthwhile endeavors. You have made your decision and stated your views that due the all the conditions you cite investment under these conditions is not worth the time nor the trouble...so you are leaving and in truth I wish you and Beth well....you have worked for your dream and your work has been rewarded....good foy you Merc(no sarcasm I mean this)but to take the position that in your eyes the current state of affairs in the U.S. means no one will come along and follow ,in a very broad step, the path you have gone is rediculous.....there will always be those that are hungry to better themselves....Is it easy what with all the regulation and all the hoops one must jump thru...of course not....but tell me Merc when was it ever easy...when was anything worthwhile easy?

Mercnbeth -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 2:45:41 PM)
quote: whats the alternative here ...let entrepenuers run amok ,build where they choose and what they choose...impacting the enviorment any which way they choose? No - and it was never represented. Obviously you agree since you don't outline how any entrepreneur could operate under these conditions. However it doesn't translate into "entrepreneurs running amok". The problem with me or any entrepreneur, and this seems to cover the majority of your points, is that there is a negligible return for the investment. That is not pointed to a return on the capital investment it's more pointed to the ROI of time. The 'best' plans with the most logical use and/or application of capital never get off the ground because of the negative image conveyed by this Administration. I'll give you a case in point. It would make too much sense to build a high speed rail line between LA and Vegas; that's why it doesn't exist. There is plenty of money to do it. I've been invited to some of the planning meetings for investors. Know why it won't happen? Not one person is willing to invest in getting a pass on the environmental impact study. Apply current policy to everything from Ford building his first auto plant to the building of Hoover Dam and none would be approved under current regulations. Ague for or against the benefits of such a position. The reality of that is just one example why all meaningful manufacturing is gone from the US and will never return. That doesn't represent ignoring existing technology to give the best efforts. It's that the best effort can not be considered which prevents the factory from being built and operating. No business would kill its employees or customers deliberately. But its your position that for the 1 in a 1000 occurrence the 999 business opportunities can't be considered. Because Sam Walton exploited the business rules laws need to be in place preventing Merc's one store from becoming 'Merc-Mart'. "Bottom line despite your chicken little economic outlook..." You know it's getting tiring. If this is "chicken little economic outlook" why is it so difficult to challenge it pointing to a solution within the current economic model being implemented by this Congress and Administration? I could prove to Chicken Little' with relative ease that it was an acorn and not the sky falling because it isn't. However you, and the other faithful, have yet to provide any reasonable alternative which would convince me that the economic sky isn't falling fast in the USA. It can't be the strength of my arguments can it? but tell me Merc when was it ever easy...when was anything worthwhile easy? It was never "easy". I hate easy. However it was never impossible as it is now for someone, born from lower to mid-working class, to do better than his parents as I did. I thought it was a given and my right growing up to work hard and do so. I don't expect any of my kids to be thinking and striving for the same thing. I find the regulations, taxes, and government attitude make the possibility impossible. But feel free to point to a path proving that position incorrect. Or is it that the position itself, to do better than the prior generation, a basic disconnect? Is is your position that the rewards of the efforts undeserved? The taxes paid to date and ongoing insufficient? The mistake I've made was not being stupid enough to not buy a home I couldn't afford, not save for self sufficiency, and not try to insulate myself from being further encumbered by a government who interprets the founding father's 'pursuit of happiness' as a mandate to guarantee it and create a citizenship believing it is an entitlement.

slvemike4u -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 3:55:41 PM)
Perhaps the "chicken little" referrence was a bit much....how about a pessimistic outlook....The main confusion, on my part anyway,is other than allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire....Just what has this administration done...exactly and in laymens terms that you feel has added to the burden ,and in your view a burden so onerous as to make investment ill advised. This is where you lose me...hiring quotas,enviormental impact studies and OSHA are hardly new...what has occured under Obama's watch that is so onerous?

MzMia -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 4:23:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Perhaps the "chicken little" referrence was a bit much....how about a pessimistic outlook....The main confusion, on my part anyway,is other than allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire....Just what has this administration done...exactly and in laymens terms that you feel has added to the burden ,and in your view a burden so onerous as to make investment ill advised. This is where you lose me...hiring quotas,enviormental impact studies and OSHA are hardly new...what has occured under Obama's watch that is so onerous? I was going to call you out on the "chicken little" remark. This IS the politics and religion section, ain't it? Are we not allowed to express ourselves here {to a point mod 11}, and say what we think or feel? The unemployment rate is over 17% NOW, and for most Black people it is probably 25% or higher. What the fuck should I say, mike? Shit is great? [;)] "Let's all hold hands and sing where have all the flowers gone?" I say, and have said for over 2 years , that I THINK, things are bad and getting worse. That is my OPINION, and you don't have to share it, OR agree with it. That does not make me, a "chicken little". I am entitled to MY opinion, and in MY opinion, the economic situation for many Americans is bad, and for many people it is going to get worse. A co-worker told me today, that he feels that many in the "middle class" are no longer "middle class" and are sinking into the "lower middle class". Of course, he would feel that way, he is fighting to keep his home! If I see a fucking hurricane coming, I am not the one that will sit back and say, "Oh don't be a chicken little, don't worry about the hurricane, it will be alright". Maybe you think everything is sunshine and roses, but those of us that don't feel that way, have a right to say it. I will continue posting my "chicken little", " sky is falling threads", "shit is bad and getting fucking worse", "here comes the next Depression (my personal favorite} threads as long as I feel like that is indeed the situation. Damn, I forgot one of my favorite lines! "We outsourced our country, and now we are going to pay the price for that one." What YOU and those that feel like YOU, should do, is tell us why/how our feelings and thoughts, are wrong. I HATE to see this happening to the country that I love, I HATE that I feel this way. I look forward to the day, I can happily say, "I think we are coming out of the wilderness/and darkness". I will be the main one celebrating that day, if I am not too old to shake it fast, and show you what I am working with.[;)] I just don't think I will be saying THAT, for at least 5-8 years, dude. Peace Out.

Mercnbeth -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 4:42:14 PM)
quote: This is where you lose me...hiring quotas,enviormental impact studies and OSHA are hardly new...what has occured under Obama's watch that is so onerous? I could turn the question around and respond by asking "What has occurred under Obama's watch that has stimulate the economy or make investing in the USA desirable?" However that response would indicate weakness in my position so I won't do it. The biggest is using resources in an attempt to prop up failures instead of using the same resources to fund successes to buy the valued assets of the failures. Bankrupting GM at the onset would have been much cheaper and much more productive. Government's role should have been as a stop gap not a first response. Talk about scare tactics and 'chicken little', that was the what the administration used to justify the nationalization of GM and Chrysler. Now that GM has indeed gone bankrupt what positive affect was there to baling them out; other than guaranteeing the payout of executive bonuses, along with union contracts. Instead the money should have been used at the individual level, taking over the employee retirement funds and insurance instead of propping up the two entities, GM management and union leadership, which created the problem in the first place. Now ours, along with generations to come will be paying interest on the deficit created. That's been promised not projected - VERY anti-investment. Apply the same pragmatic action directed to solving the economic problem as part of the bail out offered to the Banks and other financial service institutions. The Banking bailout was given without conditions for reinvestment of the resources. Foreign investment by all major lending institutions has ballooned. US tax payer dollars are being used to fund growth and expansion in China and other off shore markets. It should have been stipulated as a condition for the funds along with capping any executive compensation and bonus. Actually my belief is that it shouldn't have been done at all - however, were I forced to make the same decision, I'd put a requirement that the bailout funds be reinvested exclusively in the US or not give them. The bleeding of blood and funds fighting in foreign occupations should have ended day 1 of the Administration. Far from seeing that allocation of resources trending down, there is no leadership being provided for a plan of actions, short or long term. More revenue will be required. As a result the tax benefit from ending foreign occupation and 'protection' will not be realized. All those are specific contributors to the deficit problem. But the major problem is one of confidence. The only confidence that any potential US investor has is that taxation and regulation will expand. The heath care issue is a major case in point, but it isn't even the most troubling. The biggest mismanagement being conducted by this Administration is that facing increased deficits and decreasing revenue the push coming from the Obama Administration has been to increase the bureaucracy. No businessman, required to first find resources before adding employees would ever consider that action. Knowing that basic economic premise businessmen also know that reality will require more revenue in the near future. That can only come from taxing and additional fees from the remaining 'successful' entities and individuals. There is no confidence that Washington is inclined to change from their stated intention more entitlement programs requiring more bureaucrats to oversee its implementation. The most simplistic of solutions is how about Obama being a leader and thinking outside the box as was promised. Stand up to foreign governments with their protectionist practices and policies by proposing some of our own. While in Italy, I saw many opportunities for US goods and services to be exported there. Why weren't they? The tariff would be prohibitive. You can't buy leather in Italy not made in Italy, or other EU partners. You can't buy a lot of stuff at a reasonable cost for that same reason. Instead of apologizing for past US policies out of the context of time, this is an opportunity to reestablish the strength of the US by making it incumbent to make goods in the same target market a company wants to sell them - the USA. It may be too late for that. We may have too many laws on the books that preclude a US manufacturing renaissance. I've come to learn recently, the US is no longer a target market. The stock market is advancing on growth plans projected outside US borders. Nobody believes the status quo regarding regulations and taxation will change in the near future. Nobody believes that scrutiny for unsuccessful entitlement programs will result in them being closed. Nobody believes any PAC represented special interest group will be denied. Environmentally, as long as the philosophy that a blind salamander's well being exceeds that of an unemployed factory - building a new factory will not happen. The is no reasonable expectation for reasonable-ness. There is no leader. BTW - Don't discount the Bush tax cuts expiring as being non contributory. It does get lost with all the counter productive actions taken; however it is not insignificant. If nothing else it indicates an administration position adverse to letting people make their own decisions and keep more of the money they have earned. Not conducive to stimulating private investment. Maybe if they saw some positive impact for those funds attitudes would change, but bailing out corporations and assuring ongoing corporate welfare by nationalizing entities that haven't changed their policies and mission statements from the position that caused them to fail in the first place can't be pointed to as 'CHANGE!' of any kind.

MzMia -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 5:32:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Okie dokie. There will never be economic activity ever again, because no one can predict the future. About as smart as supply-siders maintaining that "supply creates demand," but they certainly cling to it faithfully, and you will no doubt do the same. Not surprising that this is your only response. It's the only possible position when you hang your hat on "all is well" and "somebody will invent something" surrenders to the consequences of that position. It doesn't take a soothsayer to predict the future when all manufacturing jobs have moved off shore where production doesn't have to consider the depressive regulatory and environmental issues an USA manufacturing plant would incur to say - those jobs aren't coming back. Any ground breaking idea will not be implemented in the US where the knee jerk reaction of the bureaucratic system is to provide you a list of regulations as to why you can't build a factory, generate power, or start a business. Overcoming those major hurdles, you then have to jump through hiring hoops quotas, OSHA, AA/EEO, and promised mandatory health coverage. Manage to make a profit and you're labeled an exploitive and corrupt (see Walmart) business. Manage to turn too much of a profit and make more money than is socially acceptable as an individual and pay at a higher tax rate. That's the economic environment that creates initiative to invest in the USA and is the fertile ground for your "someone will invent something" faith? Damn it merc, I am agreeing with you 100% on this post. I guess YOU are becoming more of a Liberal? eh? Are you a closet Michael Moore fan? admit it! YouTube - Roger & Me (1989 trailer) a film by Michael Moore You are spot on with this post, and I will never understand why the "masses" don't fucking get it, yet. I am far from an economist, and I saw this coming years ago. I agree with you on how hard it will/would be to "bring back manufacturing jobs". My thoughts are, "WHY THE FUCK DID WE sit back and ALLOW BIG BUSINESS TO OUTSOURCE our country in the first damn place?" According to your post, we sold ourselves down the damn river, and then created laws that will make it almost impossible to succeed in the manufacturing area. It is almost always harder to recreate what you HAD 20 years ago, and make it work. I never, will ever fully understand why we {the American populace} allowed this too happen. Anyway, have you sampled any "benissimo" Vino Rossa? MzMia is becoming a red wine snob! mama mia!

Musicmystery -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 5:58:19 PM)
Such a comforting religion, Merclandism. Inventories never deplete. Before I converted, I'd have needed workers! Thankfully, those days are over! No more relying on faith! GDP is up 3.5%. Productivity is up over 9%! And unemployment is in double digits. So employers cut costs to raise profits. Not exactly new. Good for stockholders; sucks for labor. Now, in the old days, I'd only be able to keep that up for a quarter or two before I'd have to hire, however reluctantly, new workers to replenish inventories. No more! That's because, as Merclandism explains, that 3.5% GDP increase is not due to any demand! Demand is dead! Those sales just magically happen now, with no one demanding any goods. The old market rules are dead; market incentives are a thing of the past. Long ago, those profits would have helped create new jobs, driven by the economic cost of just hanging on to them. But now, with no demand, no problem! Merclandism is also very instructive on foreign trade, and I'm glad I've converted. Just think--I used to foolishly believe that since so much of our production goes to foreign markets, that those sales were significant, and that trade barriers would only kill those markets and hurt ourselves. It's the one of the few things I agreed with the right-wingers about. But since demand is dead, who cares! Trade barriers are the way to go. Kill those markets and slow economic recovery even further--that's the ticket out of recession! And eliminating all those customers will actually increase demand again! Sure, those numbers don't add up, but you must have faith in the Merclandish Monks. Increase the cost of all the goods we consume by restricting trade, so that people demand fewer goods, and we'll all be far better off in the new booming Mercland economy. Oh, and cut taxes. During good times and bad times, that's essential. Back before we had taxes, the economy was always booming, never a recession or depression ever. Everyone prospered, there was no poverty, no sickness, no government intervention, no immigration, no abortions, no crime, no conflicts, no stress, no deficits either--life was calm, the weather was never inclement, and everyone was beautiful and above average. Let go of the pain of the past. Become a Merclander. You'll never need a worker, a foreign good, or an inventory again. Peace and prosperity be upon you.

slvemike4u -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 6:02:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Perhaps the "chicken little" referrence was a bit much....how about a pessimistic outlook....The main confusion, on my part anyway,is other than allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire....Just what has this administration done...exactly and in laymens terms that you feel has added to the burden ,and in your view a burden so onerous as to make investment ill advised. This is where you lose me...hiring quotas,enviormental impact studies and OSHA are hardly new...what has occured under Obama's watch that is so onerous? I was going to call you out on the "chicken little" remark. This IS the politics and religion section, ain't it? Are we not allowed to express ourselves here {to a point mod 11}, and say what we think or feel? The unemployment rate is over 17% NOW, and for most Black people it is probably 25% or higher. What the fuck should I say, mike? Shit is great? [;)] "Let's all hold hands and sing where have all the flowers gone?" I say, and have said for over 2 years , that I THINK, things are bad and getting worse. That is my OPINION, and you don't have to share it, OR agree with it. That does not make me, a "chicken little". I am entitled to MY opinion, and in MY opinion, the economic situation for many Americans is bad, and for many people it is going to get worse. A co-worker told me today, that he feels that many in the "middle class" are no longer "middle class" and are sinking into the "lower middle class". Of course, he would feel that way, he is fighting to keep his home! If I see a fucking hurricane coming, I am not the one that will sit back and say, "Oh don't be a chicken little, don't worry about the hurricane, it will be alright". Maybe you think everything is sunshine and roses, but those of us that don't feel that way, have a right to say it. I will continue posting my "chicken little", " sky is falling threads", "shit is bad and getting fucking worse", "here comes the next Depression (my personal favorite} threads as long as I feel like that is indeed the situation. Damn, I forgot one of my favorite lines! "We outsourced our country, and now we are going to pay the price for that one." What YOU and those that feel like YOU, should do, is tell us why/how our feelings and thoughts, are wrong. I HATE to see this happening to the country that I love, I HATE that I feel this way. I look forward to the day, I can happily say, "I think we are coming out of the wilderness/and darkness". I will be the main one celebrating that day, if I am not too old to shake it fast, and show you what I am working with.[;)] I just don't think I will be saying THAT, for at least 5-8 years, dude. Peace Out. Take a deep breath Mz Mia...i never implied Merc didn't have the right to post as he wishes.....all I'm saying is his attitude,on the way out the fucking door is a little much.....he has made his and it seems like he feels he is jumping ship right before the ship goes under.I operate under no illusions things are bad and probably will get worse before they get better.....but ,and its a big but...getting rid of regulations,OSHA and EEO legislation isn't the answer.....responsible business practices were not enforced voluntarily.....as I said in my first post...I don't have the answers...but Mercs outlook is too close to burning the barn down on your way out to suit me.If you took offence sorry...hell if he takes offence sorry...but as you rightly pointed out we each are entitled to our opinions.

MzMia -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 6:12:43 PM)
I am not saying getting rid of regulations is the answer either. I AM saying we the people ALLOWED Big Business to screw us and sell us down the fucking river for the last 25-30 years. I remember growing up and do you know what the tags said, that I loved to see, as a little girl? The tag said "MADE IN AMERICA". YouTube - Jobs outsourced to India I never really see THIS issue addressed to my satisfaction, especially with unemployment rising and no real end in sight. merc, can speak for himself. It was the "chicken little" comment that got me, I resemble that remark. [;)] I would like to add a caveat, I have a great job, that pays well and that I enjoy. I am also fortunate to be paid by the taxpayers, and in a field of work, that must keep their doors open. [;)] I am just the type of person, that will speak up about "how bad things are" , no matter how well I am personally doing. When many other people around me are hurting, I can't pretend "everything is fine". sorry mike, but that's just how I roll.

MstrPBK -> RE: 10.4% Unemployment (11/9/2009 6:19:07 PM)
NO we sold ourselves out when we went to foreign 'outsourcing'. And we weakened a whole lot of things when that happened. We need to return to US Made, US Built; it may cost more but it keeps us employed MstrPBK St. Paul, MN USA

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