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RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/8/2009 5:43:03 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		..and yet there is no cure and no vaccine for the common cold.

Razzle dazzle we cured all the other gunk=- but a simply common cold is not curable.  A curious riddle to be sure.

There is also no cure for the bubonic plague- the h1n1 vaccine does nothing for that.  Nothing.  We will all be dead in a few years- if the virus spreads from the Ukraine.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/8/2009 5:44:34 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Just twiting you a bit Magiks. 

But yes, vaccines do have a death rate associated with them.  However it is FAR FAR FAR less than the death rate without vaccination. 

One of the reasons that so many are given in a series is to help reduce the risk of the full blown disease. 


Almost ALL medications have some sort of risk attached simply becuase different people's bodies react differently to them and some people just dont tolerate them well and some are allergic which can have dire results however, we are talking about cost benifit here.

Magik


I have never denied that vaccines are a good to be embraced.  They are a prevention and herd immunity protects those that cannot have the vaccines. 

I think that those who deny the benefit of vaccines should study up on what these childhood diseases did and the deaths that they caused before we had them. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/8/2009 5:56:11 PM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

..and yet there is no cure and no vaccine for the common cold.

Razzle dazzle we cured all the other gunk=- but a simply common cold is not curable.  A curious riddle to be sure.


You do KNOW that there are over 200 viruses that can cause the common cold, right?

quote:

There is also no cure for the bubonic plague- the h1n1 vaccine does nothing for that.  Nothing.  We will all be dead in a few years- if the virus spreads from the Ukraine.



The H1N1 vaccine wouldn't do anything for plague it is a different bug altogeather.  However while there is a vaccine for the plague, it is not commercially available in the US.  Since we mostly do not have a plague problem. 

Otherwise, antibiotics:

Streptomycin
Gentamycin.
Tetracyclines
Chloramphenicol

Also supportive care. . . treating symptoms. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/8/2009 6:33:06 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Since we mostly do not have a plague problem. 



Hmmm... I don't know about that. Have you seen the state of national politics  ?

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RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/8/2009 6:39:11 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Since we mostly do not have a plague problem. 



Hmmm... I don't know about that. Have you seen the state of national politics  ?






_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 10:16:54 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		First off I want to say I am sorry for my crude attempt at a joke- when I said "thin out the herd".

Next- I want to apologize for having only 1/2 of my facts on making this argument.  I spoke to my sister and her comment on 60 shots was made flipant.  She did not recall even saying this.

I asked which shots that she refused on UM,  and both the flu and h1n1 are refused.  He started nursery school and the staff was awestruck that the h1n1 was refused.

When we talked about the shots she gotten on him- they sound like the one in the list above. (thank you for that post!)

I personally would have waited on the hep vax- but she and her hubby are the parents- and it is already done.

I got to thinking- do we know each of us which shots we all had?   Maybe not.     Anyhow- she seems to be going with the shots that are "required for school", and waiting on those that are not.  Which from our brief chat lines up with the list above.

So- for the most part- I do support the essential vaccines.    I cant recall the name of it but the one they now push for teens I do not support.

I thought long and hard when I got the hep series.   I did so in an informed manner.   So if things go arye- I did this to me.  I like that better then just automatically getting shots simply because everyone else is.

So it would appear her 60 shots comment was made in humour- and not actual 60 shots.

I do like that she seems to investigate all of it before she does it.

My sister is sort of my baby.  I experience alot of joy thru her life.  That may sound odd- but she is close to her 3 older brothers.  It is so cool to be an uncle from a sister this time.  The mom seems to decide whom may be in the kids life- so this is a joy for me.

Anyhow-  sometimes I am right on. Sometimes I mis-understand the ordeal and do not present a good argument.

We have a large menonite/Amish population here and they do not believe in shots.   When I see them around they are the picture of health- hard working- good color in the face, happy-

Anyhow- that is where I stand.   trust but verify--    and on that point- I do not conciede.   trust- but verify.  :-)

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 12:37:10 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

i believe the risks of NOT immunizing outweigh by far the risks of getting the shots and that parents or caregivers should not have an opt out option....delay yes, opt out totally, no


I have to speak up on this, not because I necessarily disagree with either decision, but EXPRESSLY because I believe that it MUST be a decision made by the parents and that every parent should -absolutely- have the right to decide what medical care they give or do not give their children, including vaccination.

The idea of governmental control of my children's (or my) health, compulsory medication, etc., appalls me more than words can say. I would absolutely not tolerate forced vaccination/medication, etc. and defy anyone to tell me that I shouldn't have the right to decide what is best for my own children.

(Yup, kettle's on the boil)
DC


_____________________________

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 12:52:25 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		So this is ok with you Calla?

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RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 12:57:11 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So this is ok with you Calla?


please re-read the link Ken.  Otherwise your post appears antagonistic.

The UM was SICK.  The parents did not get medical care.

That is not the same thing as filtering which medical implements are necessary.  

This tread asks about vaccinations.    Not a UM which is sick and then not offered care.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 1:35:29 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		My post is antagonsitic intentionally. Too often people behave as if they own their children. Children should not be injured by the bad decisions of their parents whether it is belief in faith healing or anti vaccine woo.

Furthermore there are people who really cannot be vaccinated for legitimate health issues. Those people have to rely on what is called herd immunity to protect them from diseases. IOW they are safe because the overwhelming majority of people cannot catch the disease in question and therefore the vulnerable unvaccinated person never comes in contact with the pathogen. However every time some parent chooses to not get their child vaccinated for no good reason that erodes the immunity of the population and puts those who cannot be vaccinated at ever greater risk.

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RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 1:39:44 PM   
estah


Posts: 491
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		Not my place to mix in between two Free.
.

< Message edited by estah -- 11/9/2009 1:41:24 PM >

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It all comes down to choice...we chose how we see things...we chose what we say...what we do...we chose who we are.

Better a cold truth then a warm lie

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RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 2:01:40 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

My post is antagonsitic intentionally. Too often people behave as if they own their children. Children should not be injured by the bad decisions of their parents whether it is belief in faith healing or anti vaccine woo.

Furthermore there are people who really cannot be vaccinated for legitimate health issues. Those people have to rely on what is called herd immunity to protect them from diseases. IOW they are safe because the overwhelming majority of people cannot catch the disease in question and therefore the vulnerable unvaccinated person never comes in contact with the pathogen. However every time some parent chooses to not get their child vaccinated for no good reason that erodes the immunity of the population and puts those who cannot be vaccinated at ever greater risk.


Yes but with junk science you can not blame people for being cautious.

One has to be a chemist to buy groceries.   All the crap that is in the food- processed white flour- and HFCS.   Then look at the explosion in RXs.   To include bad RXs like neurotin, Bextra, celebrex, and a bunch of others.

Consider that anything in America is measured by dollars and not the curing of the problem- health included.

So why would one go ga ga over any prescribed pill, shot of remedy?

Junk science.     The AMA enhances the studies which can sell pills and the like.  It is money based- not science based.

Next we have the  perpetual state of emergency in government.   Sort of like a car jacking.

So- I think it is great the people are catching on.   It is necessary.   The Amish do just fine. 

I think you should re-evaluate your over exuberance toward the so-called "wisdom" of the establishment.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 2:36:12 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

My post is antagonsitic intentionally. Too often people behave as if they own their children. Children should not be injured by the bad decisions of their parents whether it is belief in faith healing or anti vaccine woo.

Furthermore there are people who really cannot be vaccinated for legitimate health issues. Those people have to rely on what is called herd immunity to protect them from diseases. IOW they are safe because the overwhelming majority of people cannot catch the disease in question and therefore the vulnerable unvaccinated person never comes in contact with the pathogen. However every time some parent chooses to not get their child vaccinated for no good reason that erodes the immunity of the population and puts those who cannot be vaccinated at ever greater risk.


Yes but with junk science you can not blame people for being cautious.

One has to be a chemist to buy groceries.   All the crap that is in the food- processed white flour- and HFCS.   Then look at the explosion in RXs.   To include bad RXs like neurotin, Bextra, celebrex, and a bunch of others.

Consider that anything in America is measured by dollars and not the curing of the problem- health included.

So why would one go ga ga over any prescribed pill, shot of remedy?

Junk science.     The AMA enhances the studies which can sell pills and the like.  It is money based- not science based.

Next we have the  perpetual state of emergency in government.   Sort of like a car jacking.

So- I think it is great the people are catching on.   It is necessary.   The Amish do just fine. 

I think you should re-evaluate your over exuberance toward the so-called "wisdom" of the establishment.


And you should stop believing all the conspiracy crap you read.

BTW on the subject of the Amish they don't do just fine. They have a very high rate of genetic disease and have some serious issues in regard to domestic abuse.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 2:53:16 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

My post is antagonsitic intentionally. Too often people behave as if they own their children. Children should not be injured by the bad decisions of their parents whether it is belief in faith healing or anti vaccine woo.

Furthermore there are people who really cannot be vaccinated for legitimate health issues. Those people have to rely on what is called herd immunity to protect them from diseases. IOW they are safe because the overwhelming majority of people cannot catch the disease in question and therefore the vulnerable unvaccinated person never comes in contact with the pathogen. However every time some parent chooses to not get their child vaccinated for no good reason that erodes the immunity of the population and puts those who cannot be vaccinated at ever greater risk.


Yes but with junk science you can not blame people for being cautious.

One has to be a chemist to buy groceries.   All the crap that is in the food- processed white flour- and HFCS.   Then look at the explosion in RXs.   To include bad RXs like neurotin, Bextra, celebrex, and a bunch of others.

Consider that anything in America is measured by dollars and not the curing of the problem- health included.

So why would one go ga ga over any prescribed pill, shot of remedy?

Junk science.     The AMA enhances the studies which can sell pills and the like.  It is money based- not science based.

Next we have the  perpetual state of emergency in government.   Sort of like a car jacking.

So- I think it is great the people are catching on.   It is necessary.   The Amish do just fine. 

I think you should re-evaluate your over exuberance toward the so-called "wisdom" of the establishment.


And you should stop believing all the conspiracy crap you read.

BTW on the subject of the Amish they don't do just fine. They have a very high rate of genetic disease and have some serious issues in regard to domestic abuse.


No.

Not when I see obesity all around me.    

The Amish are in good health.  

The food and DRUG industry is all about monetization.  Not good health.

One does not have to be a smart person to figure that out.  Just look at the sickly public- all obese and popping pills in the hundreds of dollars a month.

Greed is nothing new.  It has been around for ages.

Most the groceries at a store are junk.   Loaded with HFCS.  

But have it your way for you and your kin.     I choose actual health for myself and kin. 

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 3:05:56 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		That's the sad thing, you don't watch out for your health. Not that long ago you were solicitng advice on here about having repeated black outs and seizures and adamantly refusing to get a real diagnosis from a professional. Do you know how dangerous that was?

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RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 3:13:58 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I did see a DR for the black outs.   They found nothing.

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RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 3:16:49 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

(Yup, kettle's on the boil)



What about sharing a cup of tea for everyone

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The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

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RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 3:21:35 PM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I did see a DR for the black outs.   They found nothing.


Did you go to just one Dr. or did you ask another one for an answer as well???

Just asking because at the place where I was living in 2007 they did not get it that I have fibromyalgia...I was in agony and suffered every night immense pain as I woke up every 60-120 minutes my whole body stiff and the side I was lieing on was feeling as if I am in fire...turning over was agony pure due to the stiffness and due to the pain I was in. Going to bed and getting up was hell every single night...the time in between was ok-ish...if I would not have gone AGAIN to another Dr. after my move I would still not have the right medication for it, would still be horrified about going to bed and would even still taking the wrong medication which was suggested from the previous Dr. who did not get it (as that one prescribed dicloflenac for the pain, which is nonsense for fibromyalgia). So I would have fed myself with medication I should not take in the first place and would not be better. 

Sometimes it is necessary to get different opinions as even our great Dr's don't necessarily get it right.

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 3:24:02 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

No.

Not when I see obesity all around me.

There is no causation between vaccines and obesity.    

quote:

The Amish are in good health.  

Define "good health."  Having a high rate of pre-mature births and genetic disease is not particullarly healthy.
quote:

The food and DRUG industry is all about monetization.  Not good health.


So. . . what you are saying is that they are NOT supposed to be trying to make money?  What would be the point of doing anything then?
As far as the drug industry goes. . . do you have ANY idea just HOW much R&D costs them? 
quote:

One does not have to be a smart person to figure that out.  Just look at the sickly public- all obese and popping pills in the hundreds of dollars a month.

And look at life-expectancy compared to what it was before all this pill popping.

quote:

Greed is nothing new.  It has been around for ages.

Well yes.
quote:

Most the groceries at a store are junk.   Loaded with HFCS.  

I would disagree with this.  Grocery stores have LOTS of healthy food.  The snack food and ready made stuff is not so good for you, but moderation is really the key there. 
High-Fructose-Corn-Syrup is NOT evil.  Yes, there is lots of things that contain it.  And while I do not think that it should be a staple of a diet, it is not dangerous.  Moderation, once again.
quote:

But have it your way for you and your kin.     I choose actual health for myself and kin. 



No, you have choosen to be reactionary.  I would highly suggest that you take a nutrition class.  I know that there are TONS of fads out there.  But it really comes down to eating sensibly. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Vaccination of Children. - 11/9/2009 3:31:56 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I did see a DR for the black outs.   They found nothing.


Did you go to just one Dr. or did you ask another one for an answer as well???

Just asking because at the place where I was living in 2007 they did not get it that I have fibromyalgia...I was in agony and suffered every night immense pain as I woke up every 60-120 minutes my whole body stiff and the side I was lieing on was feeling as if I am in fire...turning over was agony pure due to the stiffness and due to the pain I was in. Going to bed and getting up was hell every single night...the time in between was ok-ish...if I would not have gone AGAIN to another Dr. after my move I would still not have the right medication for it, would still be horrified about going to bed and would even still taking the wrong medication which was suggested from the previous Dr. who did not get it (as that one prescribed dicloflenac for the pain, which is nonsense for fibromyalgia). So I would have fed myself with medication I should not take in the first place and would not be better. 

Sometimes it is necessary to get different opinions as even our great Dr's don't necessarily get it right.



Thank you.  Your point is well taken.

I did bring this up with my psychiatrist as well.   Thats when we got into a fight.  I did not have his "permission" to reduce down my meds.   As a result of this- I will not return to him.  I wanted to reduce down my meds which were are 7 pills a day to the cost of about 14k a year.  Yes I have insurance so that was not a part of it.  But I supected that one pill created a need for a 2nd pill... and so on.  

I was unable to delete all of the pills-- but I have made substantial progress on this goal.   Happily.

Note that after some adjustment period- of this new regiment- there have been no black outs what so ever.

The bad news is I may never totally get off of all the chemicals.  The good news is I made substantial progress and feel better today because of it.

Many medications are meant for a period of time- and not forever and ever.   The body chemisty can adjust back in many cases.

The odd thing is- of late my REM sleep has been VERY good.  


It was a good goal.  I am pleased with where I am at on all of it.

:-)

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 80
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