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Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 10:19:41 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		This is directed towards christians (obviously).
How do you reconcile supporting the death penalty with your faith and the teachings of Jesus?
If you do not support the death penalty, is it your faith or your ethics that play a part?

the.dark.

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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 10:33:35 AM   
slaveluci


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

This is directed towards christians (obviously).
How do you reconcile supporting the death penalty with your faith and the teachings of Jesus?
If you do not support the death penalty, is it your faith or your ethics that play a part?

the.dark.

Common sense, mostly. As flawed as our legal system is, I don't support the death penalty. Too many innocent people are locked up, let alone executed. It's definitely wrong/unethical. People can and do pull justification from the bible no matter what side of the issue they're on. I stay away from that because it's pointless and never changes anyone's mind anyway. I guess I base my disdain for the death penalty on my own personal sense of ethics and sense of right and wrong..............luci

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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 10:36:01 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		The Lord is wise and merciful, and since it would be blasphemy to compare oneself to the Lord, one ought rather to be stupid and cruel; hang 'em all and let the Lord sort them out.

On the other hand, "judge not, lest ye be judged", I believe someone is held to have once said; though its unclear as to what connection, if any, he might have had to Christianity. Also ""vengeance is mine", saith the Lord", but this is the same Lord that apparently advocates the most cruel and unusual punishments for what seem to be rather minor offences.

Looking forward to what Christians have to say; in the meantime of course the heathen code applicable here is one that says that "a slave takes revenge immediately, a coward not at all, whilst the wise man takes his revenge later on", and this is hardly a better approach in that it speaks of revenge rather than justice, and such only leads to a cycle of death.

E



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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 10:45:13 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		It is obvious why Christians support the death penalty i.e. in their minds they are sending the guilty to some afterlife justice system more infallible that the earth bound one. What their hurry is in transporting them to this afterlife judgement is anyone’s guess. Atheists oppose the death penalty because well this life is all there is so any punishment must be meted out in this life.

edit: +1 number 'I' and 1 number 's'

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 11/12/2009 10:51:03 AM >

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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 11:20:04 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		As for myself I don't have to reconcile a conflict...That is for God to do on my day of reckoning...Thank heavens we can be absolved of all sin.

Butch

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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 11:34:31 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

As for myself I don't have to reconcile a conflict...That is for God to do on my day of reckoning...Thank heavens we can be absolved of all sin.

Butch


So as a christian, you are saved because you believe in Jesus, even if you disagree with or ignore his teachings?
And if you agree to killing a person and have no remorse and god tells you on your day, that what you did was incorrect, then it's already too late, because once you have died, you cannot have remorse.

the.dark.

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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 12:45:44 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

This is directed towards christians (obviously).
How do you reconcile supporting the death penalty with your faith and the teachings of Jesus?
If you do not support the death penalty, is it your faith or your ethics that play a part?

the.dark.


*snort*  If someone can be happy dashing babies heads against rocks, what is a little dealth penalty. 



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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 1:08:38 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

As for myself I don't have to reconcile a conflict...That is for God to do on my day of reckoning...Thank heavens we can be absolved of all sin.

Butch


You don't need to worry about  it, that's god's problem?


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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 1:09:49 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		of course god forgives me Panda, it's his FUCKIN' JOB!!!!!!

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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 1:15:16 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

of course god forgives me Panda, it's his FUCKIN' JOB!!!!!!


I'm thinking  he just doesn't know you as well as we do. Better watch yourself, or one of us is gonna give him a call.


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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 2:01:20 PM   
AnimusRex


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Status: offline 		As a wayward, disobedient, and heretical Catholic, I still go along with the Church's theory that it is almost never justified- When I was younger I disagreed and believed in the death penalty as a deterrent; but over the years I have come to believe it has a corrosive effect on us as a society- it causes us to champion bloodlust and revenge, which always turns out badly.

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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 2:13:13 PM   
MasterJack53


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Status: offline 		oh boy, same people different theme. wasnt it God who said an eye for an eye? and if thy right eye offend thee pluck it out? and such things? I dont entirely agree with the death penalty because there have been many innocent, of the crime convicted of, people executed. However, I also dont like paying millions of dollars in taxes to keep a person convicted of a capital offense alive after he has used all the legal appeals the law allows him. In that case, we spend more keeping them alive than we pay to educate our children from pre school to college graduation. as I said, some people are wrongly convicted of a crime they didnt commit but their record says they could have commited another crime that could rsult in the death penalty. This is not an infalable system but for right now its the best we have.

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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 2:17:38 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJack53

oh boy, same people different theme. wasnt it God who said an eye for an eye? and if thy right eye offend thee pluck it out?



..in the old testament for sure. Along with a whole bunch of stuff about shellfish and pork.

Now, as a self professed Christian, perhaps you can enlighten me as to what Jesus had to say about all this.......did he say 'turn the other cheek in order to get a good wind up to punch them back'?

(posted by the coalition of people thoroughly pissed off with so-called Christians who seem to miss the bits where the new testament over-rules the old testament)

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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 2:25:09 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJack53
In that case, we spend more keeping them alive than we pay to educate our children from pre school to college graduation. as I said, some people are wrongly convicted of a crime they didnt commit but their record says they could have commited another crime that could rsult in the death penalty.

I especially like the line where you are basically saying it's ok if they are executed for a crime they didn't commit because they "probably. maybe, perhaps" did something else that they got off scot-free with. Statements like this is what creates these misconceptions about such things in the first place, it's all usually unsubstantiated self fuelling tosh.

I think most have come to the conclusion that the death penalty administered as it currently is costs the state more than life imprisonment. I'm not sure how those figures compare to a child’s education but I expect in reality you don't either.


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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 2:27:53 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Where be these enemies? Capulet! Montague!
See, what a scourge is laid upon your hate,
That heaven finds means to kill your joys with love!
And I, for winking at your discords too,
Have lost a brace of kinsmen. All are punish'd.

Prince, scene iii

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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 2:29:17 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		~FR~

Some Christians on this topic need to do a bit more studying before they toss out half quotes with the wrong meanings. Judge not lest you be judged is a half quote, and it is not about judging, but about hypocricy. Plucking out an eye if it offends you is about removing temptation.

I am not a devout follower of Christ, but at least before I decided what was right for me, I studied the shit to know what I was making a decision on. Too many that claim themselves as Christians need to do their own research (at least three different translations of the New Testament, then actually read the Torah, Talmud, etc.). Hell at least know what at least one translation of the bible means when you quote it.

To the OP: If Death is supported in the Old Testament, then it is supported in the new, since Jesus said he was not here to change any of his Father's laws. This is clearly contrary to what many denominations promote though, since interpreation of the meaning of several things Jesus said, does go against the Old Testament (Laws of Abraham).

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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 2:31:56 PM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think it's a huge leap in logic for Christians to condone the death penalty. They believe that Jesus was the son of their god. Jesus believed that everything God did was justified and righteous. If one simply reads the Old Testament, and checks out all of the ridiculous reasons their God kills people (or commands his minions to kill them in many cases) then it becomes pretty clear that killing someone is a reasonable act.

The Jeez was really sort of fine with it. If you read the New Testament closely, you will discover that Jesus made some pretty remarkable statements that support the idea that he wasn't quite the peacenik Christians would have you believe he was. Here are some interesting Jesus quotes:

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Luke 22:36
He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Seems the Jeez wasn't too upset with the idea of whacking people either. Jewish law demanded that executions be carried out for everything from working on the wrong day to property crimes to murder, death, and fraud. It also punished victims of crimes in many cases, like the rape laws in Deuteronomy which included the death penalty for women who were raped, but failed to cry out even if their life was being threatened during the act.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Having said all of that, let me just say this. As an atheist, I support the death penalty.

-SD-




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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 2:33:47 PM   
GoDolphins


Posts: 78
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Status: offline 		I am mostly against the death penalty, although not quite 100% against it.  Part of that comes from my faith, part of it comes from how our legal system is.  Jesus Himself did say "he who is without sin, cast the first stone."  A big part of that was simply that the people of the group ready to stone that woman were being hypocritical about it, but I think that also says a lot about execution in general. 

I'm also largely against the death penalty because of the simple fact innocent people can be executed and if they are there's no way you can free them.  It's bad enough for someone to spend 20 years in jail and then somebody figures out they didn't commit a crime, but at least we can free them then, assuming they didn't die of natural causes (but you can't really do much about that).  But if you execute them...

There are a few situations where I don't have a problem with the death penalty.  Mass murderers, terrorists, serial killers...all those people should be eligible for the death penalty--IF they are convicted with rock-solid proof they committed the crimes.  If there is even any kind of realistic doubt they committed the crime, I don't think they should get the death penalty. 

If our justice system was 100% pefect in its convictions all the time, I wouldn't have a big deal with the death penalty for extremely heinous crimes.  But as we are human, that is impossible.   I don't agree with some of the crimes the death penalty has been used for in the past though. 

< Message edited by GoDolphins -- 11/12/2009 2:36:25 PM >

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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 2:39:55 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Your God is not mine I guess...sad but so I have killed in my life...many have and God tells us we can be forgiven for any sin if we are truly penitent.

Do you think every person that kills is doomed to hell? Some are of course if they do not repent. Are you and were your ancestors condemned to hell because in your country there was once capital punishment? I really don’t know because I don’t presume to know the mind of God.

All I know for sure is true repentance can assure forgiveness of any sin.

Butch


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RE: Christianity Vs. Death Penalty. - 11/12/2009 2:43:54 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoDolphins
If there is even any kind of realistic doubt they committed the crime, I don't think they should get the death penalty. 

Some old fashioned people would say if there was reasonable doubt then they shouldn't be convicted at all.

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