quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

These are very interesting questions. I tend to agree that when people start with the "I have a right to my opinion" argument, it's generally a sign that their opinion isn't worth jackshit. If it were, they'd have a better defense than "I have a right to my opinion." Right. I have a right not to pay attention.

As for the limits of free speech: I believe that as long as the purpose is to express a viewpoint, as you put it, there should be no limits whatsoever, regardless of how offensive that position is. The sticking point is that people expressing an extremely offensive point of view are rarely JUST interested in expressing that point of view. Usually they are also trying to arouse attention, incite hatred, berate minorities, etc. In the U.S., this fine line is carefully studied by the Nazi Party (among other hate groups), which always goes as far as it can to piss everyone off, but (usually) without crossing the line into the realm of speech that can land them in jail. It's a nuisance, but the alternative is a society that doesn't allow the expression of unpopular points of view, and that kind of intolerance can only come back to hurt us in the long run.

quote:

As for the limits of free speech: I believe that as long as the purpose is to express a viewpoint, as you put it, there should be no limits whatsoever, regardless of how offensive that position is. The sticking point is that people expressing an extremely offensive point of view are rarely JUST interested in expressing that point of view.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

Read the words carefully. I was responding to her but not stating an opinion of what she'd said.

There's a good psychological study here about how neutral comments reveals personal biases.

Indeed. One can very directly address somebody else while being indirectly neutral ;)

quote:

Or be preceived to, if the listener is sufficiently paranoid. In general, most fairminded people don't try to be mindreaders

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

Or be preceived to, if the listener is sufficiently paranoid. In general, most fairminded people don't try to be mindreaders

But why is a person perceived to be paranoid if he/she misunderstood?

quote:

We must defend both. It's a pity that intolerant views are sometimes given a voice, but it may be instructive to then discuss why that particular viewpoint is and should be unacceptable to society overall.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissymaidlola

quote:

An argument is a well thought out position intended to establish a contrary point of view, it is not discouraging discourse.

No, it isn't!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
The "Race Card" is a great catch-all whenever someone feels like they have been offended.

Funny thing...the "race card" - as you call it - is a very real problem we actually call racism. It's not some imaginary or pretended offense, it is an actual offense to lovers of equality everywhere. Racism is not a strategy to win an argument - it is a problem suffered by people all over the world.

Do not attempt to minimize the things we know are real problems just because you have a rhetorical point you wish to make.

Or do you live in a world where racism and profiling are not factors in how people are treated differently?

quote:

i am in complete agreement with you. The point i was making is (and it seems you agree), there are limits and boundaries to such freedoms.

quote:

ORIGINAL: windy135

When I read the joke I thought of my great uncle who was gay and passed away of AIDS and I stated that I didn’t find the joke funny. I never said his opinion was wrong or that it should be taken down. I used my freedom of speech to simply state my opinion no harm done… or so I thought. I believe that people should say what they want even if it does offend because it’s a great chance for those who are offended to grow from the experience. We all are taught something by one another even if we didn’t enjoy the lesson.

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

The right to free speech is one that comes at a high price. It comes at the price of having to sometimes work a little harder at not listening to that which you don't want to hear. Not reading that which you don't want to read. Not watching that which you don't want to watch. Or simply disagreeing and voicing your own opinion.

The right to free speech means that I have to acknowledge your right to free speech when you are voicing an opinion that goes against my beliefs, and I would spend the rest of my life opposing.

If you want censorship, it's pretty easy to do it yourself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrTiger

The joke was that the guy has aids because he is gay, and being gay is wrong so he needs to learn how to use his ass properly, how in any way could that not be considered a homophobic sentiment?. If someone had said that on any other message board other then the humour one it would have been taken down immediately. It does not matter if you find it funny or not is not the humour is not what I object to it is the sentiment underlying it. It does not really matter if peoples friends would be offended by it or not, the issue is the derogatory comment aimed at an entire community.

I do not agree with anyone who says that a bigot can be countered by people not listening to them, the only way people will know how offensive they are being and how wrong there viewpoint is if people counter them.

I define what I find offensive on a personal level, though common sense defines it in the broader sense, I am sure homophobes and racists know how offensive they are being to gay or black people. You can clearly see what I find offensive in my opening message I don’t think asking to define the obvious furthers debate it just stifles it.