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RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/16/2009 6:19:01 PM   
Musicmystery


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One thing about this, though...

The USPS is expected to offer the same, reliable coverage everywhere--including rural middle-of-nowhere, at a low, affordable cost, with its own Post Office. No business would expect to do that without specific regulations and/or subsidies.

The Postmaster here and I get to talking about these things sometimes for a bit. It's either gonna have to run at a loss, or the service will have to change. Frankly, I think higher rates would be quite reasonable, perhaps with separate bulk business rates. Cutting back to five day service is also reasonable. If not Saturday, then maybe, say, cut Wednesday. The main objection I've heard is seniors wanting that SS check if it's due Sat., and direct deposit would solve that.

On the other hand, higher rates might further check volume (e.g., more people paying bills online). Who knows.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/16/2009 6:24:54 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Well...this canard about how the USPS has terrible service is just that, a myth. The truth is, Consumer Reports compared USPS to FedEx and UPS and found that USPS overall gave the same service, at lower cost;

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/money/shopping/shopping-tips/fedex-vs-ups-vs-the-postal-service/overview/package-delivery-services-ov.htm?Extkey=SY95PI0&CMP=KNC-CROVMYSSP&HBX_OU=51&PK=yssp

Quote:

[in a head to head test shipment] Every package reached its destination the next day. But overnight shipping prices to the same place differed by as much as 281 percent. The Postal Service was the least expensive by far for local and long-distance deliveries. For letter-size envelopes, such as the ones it gave us for sending the books, it charges a flat rate of $16.50. (Flat rates for slower delivery are lower.)

The other shippers base prices on weight and distance traveled. UPS charged $62.87 to send our book next-day to Oregon and $29.55 to Manhattan. FedEx charged $54.57 and $27.48, respectively.

We also checked prices to send a 5-pound package from New York to California regular next-day, two-day, and slower ground. The Postal Service won again in the first two categories and more or less tied in the third (see 3 Shippers, 3 Time Frames). And unlike the other carriers, the Postal Service doesn’t add a fuel surcharge, which is adjusted monthly by the other carriers


Ronald Reagan made a lot of good common sense when he suggested that we run government like a business- in this case, it appears the solution is for USPS to just increase its rates to charge a price competitive with FedEx and UPS.

So yes, there will be Saturday health care, its just we will have to (gasp) pay (taxes) for the cost of providing it.
As Ronaldus Magnus also said, "We must pay in taxes for the services we receive. There is no free lunch."

A wise man, indeed.


Haha, well, I'm guessing they are using walk in prices for that article.

If you ship more than a few packages a week, FEDEX and UPS will give you discount, as in like 50% off air mail, if you want. However, they let you select what package categories you want your heaviest discount in. The more you ship monthly the better the discount. I'd guess the vast majority of packages are sent by businesses.

USPS, won't give you a discount unless you are a really heavy shipper, at least last time I checked about a year ago.

Anyway, as a business unless you are a megacorp, the USPS is terrible. Now if you ship like a couple packages a year, well they all are going to rape you.

Anyway, that article is pretty shitty in its thoroughness, as it mentions the online printing discount for the USPS, but doesn't mention anything about the large easily attainable to anyone shipping regularly discounts of FEDEX and UPS.


As far as it goes we have a program that checks UPS and USPS rates for every package, unless it's flat-rateable or teeny tiny, UPS wins like 8 to 1.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/16/2009 6:25:04 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The caps wont be necessary.

There is a huge difference you are overlooking.

The USPS has a decrease in usage, one of its main problems.

The health care doesn't, in fact, its underutilized until its an emergent case which drives up the cost. Catching problems in the beginnings... preventative care... is where the savings will be.


The difference is that the USPS doesn't not have to operate like a traditional business. It does not have to show a profit. There are no shareholders per se to answer to. Government run health care will be much like that. It already is in the form of Medicare. My girlfriend works in health care. They *love* Medicare patients. Why? Because their is no oversight. Her company does not have to jump through hoops to recieve payment. Medicare just goes out back and pulls more money off the money tree. Payments from private carriers are reviewed and approved to try to maintain costs because they are true businesses.



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(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/16/2009 6:44:42 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

One thing about this, though...

The USPS is expected to offer the same, reliable coverage everywhere--including rural middle-of-nowhere, at a low, affordable cost, with its own Post Office. No business would expect to do that without specific regulations and/or subsidies.

The Postmaster here and I get to talking about these things sometimes for a bit. It's either gonna have to run at a loss, or the service will have to change. Frankly, I think higher rates would be quite reasonable, perhaps with separate bulk business rates. Cutting back to five day service is also reasonable. If not Saturday, then maybe, say, cut Wednesday. The main objection I've heard is seniors wanting that SS check if it's due Sat., and direct deposit would solve that.

On the other hand, higher rates might further check volume (e.g., more people paying bills online). Who knows.


I would rather see Wednesday cut then Saturday.

I think direct deposit for Social Security was mandatory for those who filed after 2000.   So a person getting a paper check today had come in before that cut off line.

But your point is cogent- because there could be legal papers- and time sensitive mail that is not quite next day in price value- but still important.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/16/2009 6:46:21 PM   
Sanity


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I wonder what the carbon footprint for the USPS is... you just know its got to be horrendous.



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(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/16/2009 6:47:41 PM   
AnimusRex


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NeedToUseYou-
So actually, you and me and Consumer Reports all agree- that depending on what you ship, how often, to where, the three delivery services can be competitive, one edging the others out. However, USPS is almost always cheaper, which means they are not charging enough.

And like others have pointed out, the private ones don't have to deliver where they don't want to, and not on Saturday. So if USPS could deliver 5 days a week like the private ones, and eliminate unprofitable addresses, and raise rates to equal the others...then yes, they probably would make a profit.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/16/2009 7:00:28 PM   
servantforuse


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I agree rex, but congress keeps them doing all of the things that lose money. They don't care if the postal service loses 4 billion dollars. That's the problem.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/16/2009 7:32:25 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I agree rex, but congress keeps them doing all of the things that lose money. They don't care if the postal service loses 4 billion dollars. That's the problem.


"...doing all these things that lose money..."

But- maybe making money is not the purpose of the Postal Service? Maybe it was established for the purpose of facilitating information, making trade and communication easier? Even if it cost money to operate?

And maybe that is the point of government services- that they facilitate good things, they make possible benefits to society that are worth the cost of their provision.

The federal highway system and public school systems were exorbitantly expensive when they were built; and they were free to boot! Yet we would all agree that highways sped up transportation, made commerce much more efficient and productive, the school system produced this generation of technocrats, and both have paid back in public benefit many times over what they cost.

Maybe the time has come to say we don't need a public mail system; Maybe email and private carriers can do the task as well. Maybe we are willing to give up Saturday mail delivery, and delivery to rural routes, and pay higher prices in addition.

But we aren't really talking about mail, are we? The original post made a snarky reference to the public health system; Maybe there is a public benefit to having universal care, to make sure that businesses aren't crushed under the staggering burden of having tp provide private sector health insurance, that people don't avoid routine health screenings until they are forced to go to the emergency room, and end up going bankrupt or sticking the taxpayers with the tab.

Maybe the private sector provides efficient benefits, but the public sector provides universal benefits, and the two complement each other and the cost of one actually benefits the other.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/16/2009 7:32:57 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

NeedToUseYou-
So actually, you and me and Consumer Reports all agree-
No, we don't agree.

that depending on what you ship
Yes and the article chose an item that is close to the outer edge that USPS competes at all on price. They should price a 2 5 10 20 30 50 pound item, that doesn't fit in a flat rate box.
, how often
They don't mention how often once.
, to where,
the three delivery services can be competitive,
Only for small packages as in smaller than a flat rate box, and beyond that they(USPS), becomes highly uncompetive, once you apply the discount from UPS, or FEDEX for anyone shipping more than a few a week. As in most businesses that ship stuff.
one edging the others out. However, USPS is almost always cheaper, which means they are not charging enough.
LOL, you must work for them. IF USPS charged anymore they would only lose more package business. We can talk all we want, but when I go to ship, and the program that checks the rates spits them out, it becomes a fact, that USPS, is not competive most of the time, once you exceed small package size, which is most packages.

And like others have pointed out, the private ones don't have to deliver where they don't want to, and not on Saturday.
They do deliver on Saturday for express type services, and in 1000's of packages, I've only had like two problems with delivery in 4 years. It's true UPS doesn't deliver to PO Boxes (obvious), and they don't do Military Deliveries. The one time USPS is a huge saver is Puerto Rico (flat rate only), hawaii (flat rate only), pretty much us holdings.

 So if USPS could deliver 5 days a week like the private ones,
Go for it, I would be glad to not have to ship Saturdays..
and eliminate unprofitable addresses,
Ultra rare occurence...
and raise rates to equal the others...
They already charge more for the vast majority of packages, maybe not a tiny paper back, I don't ship books. See the article is shit because it chose a small package item and seems to project that case holds true, when in fact once you get larger than that the view drastically favors UPS the bigger the item gets, and they excluded shipping discounts.
then yes, they probably would make a profit.
Doubtful....





< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 11/16/2009 7:37:48 PM >

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 1:56:02 AM   
housesub4you


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Where does it say the USPS has to make a profit, since when is the US government about making profit????  How much profit did the US make from 2001 to 2008

It is a service, your police dept does not make a profit, nor your fire dept, your water dept, you get the idea.  the only difference is the USPS has to come up with its own funding, which no other gov service has to do. 

As for competing with private industry, I think the USPS is a great example of how many private business's can still make a profit even when there is competition from a gov run service like the USPS.  So all you people saying that private insurance will go broke because of a national health care system seems you lose this fight

Do I think health care will be run like the USPS, no because if you make that comparison then you have to look at everything the government runs and show how they all are failing for that to be a valid point.  You can't just pick one service and say see the US gov can't do anything, when in fact the US gov does a lot of things very well. 

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 2:04:08 AM   
Llyren


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The USPS really isn't part of the government anymore.  They have for the most part farmed it out to hired contractors.

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(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 2:50:34 AM   
housesub4you


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You can't tell that by the posts in this thread.  It seems when they want to slam our current President it is, or blame wasteful spending on our government it is, or running a poor service it is. 





(in reply to Llyren)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 3:12:45 AM   
kttqnp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Llyren

The USPS really isn't part of the government anymore.  They have for the most part farmed it out to hired contractors.


It is correct that the Postal Service has been an independent governmental agency since the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970, but to say that most of it is farmed out to hired contractors is somewhat of a stretch. Not that there haven't been repeated attempted to subcontract various aspects of the service over the last 39 years.

(in reply to Llyren)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 7:44:59 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

when in fact the US gov does a lot of things very well. 



Name anything that US government does better than the private sector that is of any significant scale.


< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 11/17/2009 7:45:29 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 7:46:57 AM   
mnottertail


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US military.

bye.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 7:53:32 AM   
servantforuse


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Maybe they wouldn't have to show a profit, but why can't they at least run that outfit and break even. The taxpayers are on the hook for the 4 billion.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 8:01:44 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

US military.

bye.


What makes you think the US military is more effective than a private army would be?

bye

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 11/17/2009 8:02:36 AM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 8:07:46 AM   
kttqnp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Maybe they wouldn't have to show a profit, but why can't they at least run that outfit and break even. The taxpayers are on the hook for the 4 billion.


Taxpayers are not on the hook for anything. The Postal Service does not operate with tax dollars. They have their own budget. So far, the only help from Congress has been to allow them to forgo certain obligations to pre-fund retiree health benefits.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 8:09:17 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kttqnp


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Maybe they wouldn't have to show a profit, but why can't they at least run that outfit and break even. The taxpayers are on the hook for the 4 billion.


Taxpayers are not on the hook for anything. The Postal Service does not operate with tax dollars. They have their own budget. So far, the only help from Congress has been to allow them to forgo certain obligations to pre-fund retiree health benefits.


Not true. The US has funded the post office several times with billions of dollars.

(in reply to kttqnp)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 8:16:26 AM   
kttqnp


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Explain please. The Postal Service is an independent governmental agency with its own budget. It's not a department like the IRS that gets a disbursement every year that has to be approved by Congress. Revenue comes from services sold to the public (postage sales, etc.), not from Congress.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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