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RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 8:18:55 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

US military.

bye.


What makes you think the US military is more effective than a private army would be?

bye



oh, the fact that there isnt a private army, by example. And since the private sector always does it better, it means that they cant do it. Your logic, not mine.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/17/2009 8:20:11 AM >

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(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 8:21:09 AM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		Well the fact is, there's no incentive for the post office to be run efficiently. Regardless of whether they make a profit or not, the government will bail them out if necessary. That's the whole problem with government competing with private industry. It's not fair competition and it rewards incompetency. Yes, some services must be ran by local government such as police, fire, and emergency personnel, and even the military must be ran by the government on a federal scale, but it's normally a bad and wasteful decision to subsidize competition with private industry. Capitalism works best when incompetency goes bankrupt and closes down, and innovation and efficiency are rewarded.

For example, if private industry were running the post office, they would have long ago gone to a different delivery schedule such as delivering to businesses on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and private residences on Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. This would cut the employment force almost in half.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 8:23:27 AM   
openmindedslave


Posts: 470
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Okay, so the Postal Service lost money. I am sure its due to many causes not just one .  People  paying bills on line / Retailers cutting back on direct mail pieces / Businesses not in business any more/ A labor force in the postal service may be larger than is needed/ I am sure UPS and others have taken business away from them also/ The cell phone and the internet have replaced alot of letter writing /and ofcourse people out of work are not buying or sending things in the mail as often I am sure.

The answer for the goverment is to raise mailing cost to cover the cost needed to have a postal system. And really I think we have  a very effective system..

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 8:42:11 AM   
kttqnp


Posts: 118
Joined: 1/21/2009
Status: offline 		It's the US Postal SERVICE. It's not a business. They are required to provide universal SERVICE to every delivery address in the United States, which is inherently unprofitable. Private delivery services are able to choose where and when they deliver, and to change their prices at will, adding "fuel surcharges" and the like. The Postal Service is locked into a rate structure for a year at a time, their rates must be approved by the Postal Rate Commission and are not to exceed certain parameters.

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 8:43:34 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kttqnp

Explain please. The Postal Service is an independent governmental agency with its own budget. It's not a department like the IRS that gets a disbursement every year that has to be approved by Congress. Revenue comes from services sold to the public (postage sales, etc.), not from Congress.


In the past when faced with a deficit, tax money was given to the USPS. There are USPS income statements that show that happened 2 or 3 times since the 80s.

(in reply to kttqnp)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 9:05:19 AM   
kttqnp


Posts: 118
Joined: 1/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: kttqnp

Explain please. The Postal Service is an independent governmental agency with its own budget. It's not a department like the IRS that gets a disbursement every year that has to be approved by Congress. Revenue comes from services sold to the public (postage sales, etc.), not from Congress.


In the past when faced with a deficit, tax money was given to the USPS. There are USPS income statements that show that happened 2 or 3 times since the 80s.



Can you tell me where I can find these statements? I am not aware of any taxpayer bailouts for the Postal Service. The only assistance I know of is the exemption from pre-funding retiree health benefits, and that was not really a cash gift, but more of a reduction in future payments. PMG Potter has appeared before Congress several times recently, but came back empty-handed.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 9:33:11 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Fire dept, Police, FBI, Secret Service, Education, water, National Parks,
You act like you never drink water, and Yes the Military, unless of course you're GWB, than you make all your friends happy and hire their private firms, which still rely on US forces to get them there, and protect them

If you think this country is so bad, why don't you move out?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 10:08:35 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		well we could start charging to GET mail.

Sorta like one pays to receive a cell call or text.

(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 10:21:01 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		LOL.. who would pay to receive bills and junk mail?

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 10:27:54 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		You pay to receive calls????  I don't text; the dam letters are so small i have no idea what I'm sending and people end up calling me when they receive their screwed up text message

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 10:28:34 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Why isn't the simplest solution ever considered?

Close the USPS; if there's a market and need the vacuum will soon be filled with business opportunity. All the 'good' workers can set up their own privatized product lines; part of the shut down should include seed money and/or grants to do just that. A one time assistance for start up replacement private postal service.

Businesses, like people, have a viable lifespan. They cost the most money when kept on life support beyond their time. For people an argument can be made for religious and/or sentimental reasons to maintain life at all costs. An obsolete business or service should not be given the same consideration.

Close it down, end of problem, end of waste, it will free up valuable resources and allow them to be allocated to living viable entities.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 10:31:35 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Hows the mail where you are??????  Italy and most European Countries don't rely on their gov run postal service because of the corruption

And if we close the USPS you lose a whole line of jokes for comedians and a easy target for people with nothing better to bitch about. 

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 10:34:22 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Name anything that US government does better than the private sector that is of any significant scale.



quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

US military.

bye.


What makes you think the US military is more effective than a private army would be?

bye


That was probably the most hilarious piece of weaseling I've ever seen on this board. Thank you; I was badly in need of a good laugh today.

So, Willbe - what makes you think single-payer universal health care wouldn't work better than the current health care model?

There! I win! I like these new rules...


< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 11/17/2009 10:40:46 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 10:43:40 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Hows the mail where you are??????

Inconsequential - you?

quote:

And if we close the USPS you lose a whole line of jokes for comedians and a easy target for people with nothing better to bitch about.
The best argument you have for not closing it; or do you agree with the idea?

(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 11:28:34 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Oh I see, so you sit on the sidelines, and when asked to compare it to where you are, you can't answer.  I lived in Europe for over 15 years and they have nothing that can compare to the USPS  all you offer is closing it, when it fact it does a dam good job, lousy marketing but a good job.

They stop at every home and business in the USA 6 days a week, nothing even comes close.

As for the 2nd part it was a sardonic remark

< Message edited by housesub4you -- 11/17/2009 11:29:52 AM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 11:38:22 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

You pay to receive calls????  I don't text; the dam letters are so small i have no idea what I'm sending and people end up calling me when they receive their screwed up text message


Have you thought about getting glasses?


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(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 11:41:51 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Oh I see, so you sit on the sidelines, and when asked to compare it to where you are, you can't answer.  I lived in Europe for over 15 years and they have nothing that can compare to the USPS  all you offer is closing it, when it fact it does a dam good job, lousy marketing but a good job.

They stop at every home and business in the USA 6 days a week, nothing even comes close.

As for the 2nd part it was a sardonic remark


As far as I know they are in California and the USPS still delivers there. What were you trying to get them to compare?


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(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 11:44:29 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Oh I see, so you sit on the sidelines, and when asked to compare it to where you are, you can't answer
I did answer appropriately. You asked; Hows the mail where you are?????? I answered - "inconsequential". You want me to expand on that theme? Okay...

Mail comes, it lays around for a time and gets tossed on garbage day. There isn't a damn thing I get through the mail that I can't and don't get from other, more reliable and timely sources. Better?

quote:

They stop at every home and business in the USA 6 days a week, nothing even comes close.
So? That's not a reason to keep it operating at an annual deficit in the Billions of dollars.

Your turn...

Do you have any reasoning, beyond the "sardonic remark" for NOT closing the US Postal Service?

(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 12:31:30 PM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Did you not move to Italy? If not then I am sorry I am wrong.  But still tell me 1 private company that stops at every USA address for under 50 cents OZ

What you do with your mail is not the problem of the people who deliver it, if it is waste, then the least you can do is tell them not to waste their money or time and get off their mailing list of the companies sending you their garbage.

Tell me 1 government service that creates a profit, if they don't create a profit are you saying we should stop them all? 

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: USPS posts $3.8B loss for 2009 - 11/17/2009 12:58:02 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		Taking you up on your offer of shutting down the USPS:

I suppose most Americans figure they can do without it; who really relies on the USPS anymore? Oh, the once a year Christmas cards, the occasional paperwork that can't be emailed, but for the most part, the average American is the recipient of mail, very few actually send any.

Which is the rub; the beneficiaries of the USPS are mostly direct mail advertisers, and businesses that rely on mailing bills and advertisements. As mentioned, USPS is not only cheap, it is universal- they can reach every single address.

If the utility companies and credit card companies had to find another way to get your monthly bill to your house, they might dispute your contention.

Electronic billing can handle a wide range of things, but the physical delivery of contractual items is still very important- if businesses were suddenly faced with paying much higher private company rates, and if they were faced with losing entire swaths of rural and unprofitable addresses, they might demand a publicly funded universal delivery service. Or pass the higher rates onto their customers.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 80
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