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RE: the trouble is - 11/18/2009 3:07:04 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Hmm...
Kim and I have at times been referred to as "vanilla with Dominance", or "vanilla with kink", or some such. We play lightly, some spanking and cropping, but are very far from edge play, or pain sluttery.

And yet- her submission to me is expressed in the most simple and innocuous yet profound and moving of ways;
The other night I came to the table and found my dinner cooked a certain way, and wondered if I told her how to fix it; she smiled and said no, she had simply noticed, 3 months ago, that I selected the one cooked this way instead of that way, and remembered.

She really does revolve her life around me, my comfort, my happiness. I doubt there ever was a slave who served so completely. I genuinely am delighted with her and "the interplay of dominant and submissive natures melding like any other relationship and just being the ying to their yang and symbiotically, naturally just being themselves without effort and protocol slowing it all down."

I also find it insulting and tedious to have our natures distilled down into a checklist of "what kind of manacle do you prefer".

I don't have a suggestion here, just an echoing observation that others feel as you do, and that maybe you just want a relationship that incorporates BDSM within its boundaries, rather than the other way round.


My fiance and I are similar, not the same level of D/s and we do engage in kink but for the most part it's the vanilla activities where I really treat him like 'the man of the house'.

I like to call it 'French Vanilla' because it sounds sexy and also is a delicious flavour of ice cream



< Message edited by Elisabella -- 11/18/2009 3:08:01 AM >

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: the trouble is - 11/18/2009 10:12:49 AM   
TheOldMan


Posts: 19
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline 		Wellll lally, I know how you feel , it can be a bummer but lets take a look closer.

First, You are NOT unattractive physically.  Remember what one finds attractive another finds repulsive,  nearly all of us are guilty of this to some extent.
Second, your very abilty to engauge in this topic speaks to your maturity, insight and self understanding which only makes you that much more attractive to many of us.  Trust me on this,  as a human being you are a far more interesting indivdual now than you were 20 years ago.  Age and experience give us depth that firm flesh cannot.
Third, the conclusion you reached about limits as opposed to self understanding is both correct and totally incorrect.  While it may seem today in the internet age to be all about how much you can take and how low you'll go,  It all depends on who you talk too, some are shallower than others but real depth requires looking deeper.  I suspect for the one you seek it's more about what's in your heart and soul.   Now that's an easy statement to make but what counts here is the carry through.  How do you MELD two hearts and souls of complementary desire and need?
Take a look at what AnimusRex wrote.  He mentioned how his SO cooked his dinner in just such a way.  That hit ME like a ton of bricks!!!!
For better than 30 years I have sought just such a sub.  One for whom it is not ALL ABOUT HERSELF.  Small considerations, but meaningful ones, the concern to remember and give a damn.  Small things can mean so much.  While I work on the boat does she happily sit with me, not intruding but content to be with me and help in any way I might ask or does she suddenly decide she's going shopping or in to watch TV because she's bored or some such?  Where are her priorities?  On her.......or US?   Some will accuse me of insecurity or being "undom like"  but when it seems 99% of the subs you meet come back around to it being all about them,  Personally I began to question my choices in subs.  Well, I've concluded that at the very least it's not just me, it's the mindset of the times we live in.
Read through enough profiles, talk to enough people and it all can begin to sound the same.  It's ALL ABOUT THEM.  Dom or Sub,  it matters not.
Welllll I've alwas seen my Dom side as coming from a giving place.  I am the enabler, the tool that takes her to where she needs to go and back safely and what's in it for me is what comes back,  a loving, compliant woman eager to please me.  It's symbotic, simple as that.
Symbotic, that's damn tough to find.

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: the trouble is - 11/18/2009 10:36:10 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

i wonder at how dignified it is for a woman of my age to be dragged around by her hair or by a collar in a club with next to nothing on. not very.

At any age, weight, height, or experience; there shouldn't be a concern about the image you are portraying. Focus should be on the how the act, or experience, fulfills the relationship; whether that relationship is long term, or one day.

quote:

is all about how much pain you can take, how long you can kneel in one position, how submissive you are to having youre nipples twisted so hard its unbearable. what sort of gobshite does it make me to be humiliated and objectified and made to struggle to prove my submissive nature.

all the hours ive spent struggling with myself, internalising, growing, developing, changing, hankering, trusting, trying, crying, pushing limits, pushing myself all for the glorious accolade of a 'good girl' pat on the head.
Striving for confirmation and validity is a sure way not to get it. You're 'good girl' pat should come from within as much as from a complimentary partner. Basing your self worth on someone else before they've shown they can be trusted with that power and it could be used against you. You also can end up locked into a character and won't be able to stop acting as you believe your partner wants and/or expects. You'll end up forgetting or hiding who you are. Acting is work, and can't be maintained long term.

Whatever you identify in your heart, sub, slave, or just a person who likes certain sensation from either end of the flogger - be that, however you define the labels other people try to apply to you. Avoid the 'one handed websurfers' looking to fulfill some checklist of experiences they think they would like. You don't get to know anyone by picking from menu. You have to see how they dine, their table manners, and what seasoning they put on the food to know if you can cook for them.

quote:

has the simple art of Ds in its simplest format of two people simply being themselves without the trappings of floggers, chains and paddles to express themselves got lost somewhere.
No. But to get 'simple' you have to have the self confidence to not try to please anyone else but yourself; unless/until you find your compatible partner and trust them to allow you to be natural in whatever dynamic that is the relationship formed.

Don't give up, or at least don't close the door. Try and keep it fun and have fun without the pressure you've placed upon yourself to be in an ideal relationship by a certain point in your life.

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: the trouble is - 11/18/2009 2:45:40 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

bottom line is that in amongst this lifestyle there is an understanding of how a Dominant works and how a submissive works - each understands the other and so when i feel the deepest urge to sit at my Masters feet as he's watching footie or reading the paper or enjoying the cup of coffee ive just made him and just rest my head on his thigh and drift away, i can. if i did that to a mainstream he wod very probably feel extremely uncomfortable - just an example, but you get the drift.



Oh contrare my dear. I think their is many an alpha male who would relish you sitting at their feet and you would make them feel quite manly and wanting to cherish and protect you.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: the trouble is - 11/18/2009 2:53:16 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

so im asking you guys, has the simple art of Ds in its simplest format of two people simply being themselves without the trappings of floggers, chains and paddles to express themselves got lost somewhere. im not talking to the absolute exclusion of BDSM, whips and chains but i am talking about the interplay of dominant and submissive natures melding like any other relationship and just being the ying to their yang and symbiotically, naturally just being themselves without effort and protocol slowing it all down.



I'm reading this through and I can't help thinking that this isn't so much to do with 'the lifestyle' or BDSM per se as an independent entity or community but with what is going on either around it or outside it.

When you take a look at what makes up this lifestyle or community what do you really see? I see people from all walks of life identifying themselves as kinky, as different, as somehow not part of mainstream society and they feel this way because they have interests or seek relationships which involve components which you cannot mention or openly talk about as you can about the weather.

This is why we are all here, and we are all here focussed on relationships of some sort, whether it be a relationship with another person, with ourselves, with 'people' in general, or with abstract concepts - pain, love, sexual pleasure, acceptance, understanding, validation, support, friendship, love. However this isn't very much different from outside the community, which is why I've stopped using the term 'lifestyle', because whichever way you look at it, it is still living, and people from outside this community often seek the very same things as above, only they do so unaware of the labels and that increased awareness which we all share.

I feel not only that I can relate to what the OP is going through, but also that I know others who are also experiencing similar situations, and not all of them are here in this community.

However there's two things which I personally keep in mind when it comes to relationships. The first is that we all have a past and are all going through life with different life objectives, which we decided in our childhoods as to how our lives are going to look, what the point of our lives is going to be, we all decided our own Mythos or character and how we are going to relate to other people. As we grew up and got through our teens and into adulthood all these things slip into our subconscious and we gradually become less and less aware of this until we stop noticing. But other people notice, and it is still there. It is always there, and I feel you never really get to know someone until you can accurately work out that person's character through their eyes, the pattern of their life and what their main objective in life is.

Similarly until you have become aware again of this you will never really know yourself, or be able to develop an objective view of life as it stands for you today or be able to influence it or the people you come across. This is what helps you differentiate the present from the past.

This is the constant, people are people, and this is why the community and what we see as BDSM is truly cross-cultural where assuming you can communicate in a common language you can attend a munch in St Petersburg in Russia and meet with similar people and talk about the same things as you can in London, in San Francisco, or anywhere else in the world.

However the second point I bear in mind is that we are all influenced by things outside our control, and which also influence our characters, our thinking, our way of communicating with others and interacting. We are influenced by the generation we grew up in, because when we were deciding as kids what we were going to do in life, how our lives would look, our Mythos and how we would relate to other people we were making those decisions on the basis of the way society and the world looked then. This also influences the way we look at things and how we see other people.

This is also what influences society in general. We've just gone through twenty to thirty years where we were conditioned to be self-sufficient, competitive, to take opportunities, and beyond this we have also lived through perhaps one of the biggest social revolutions in our entire history thanks to technological advances brought about by the development of the microchip and computers and so on. This has been an experience perhaps very similar to the Industrial Revolution but perhaps it's had an even greater effect because more areas of life and living have been transformed.

However what is becoming more and more apparent I feel is that on the whole much less is guaranteed in life than perhaps we thought it would be. People don't work in jobs or careers for all their lives as our grandparents or even parents did, in fact I feel it is more commonplace that people find jobs and develop careers hoping for the best and life has become much more transient, and as a result relationships also have become much more transient, even if the relationships last a long time.

This is causing a lot of people to become much more insecure, and because they are insecure they seek to escape from the present reality of their lives and who they really are and they go back to living in the past, which kind of distorts their perception of reality and other people, and they start looking for relationships which reflect past relationships and as such the relationship cycles they seek actually become vicious circles. This I feel explains why it is so hard to find the opportunity for a new relationship when you are actively seeking one. Your headspace is playing mindgames with your heart which is responding to shut out the insecurity by bringing up past feelings and emotions or longings for such feelings. All this is projected outwards and other people see it and notice it.

I'm finding that the only way out of this is to let go, take a step back, and look within yourself for ways of providing your own validation, happiness, and occupation without needing or involving other people, and by developing ways of doing things which occupy your mind but also are pleasant and enjoyable enough to give you a good feeling and just simply be yourself - as you are today, without any compromise, and look for and hold out for the other people who are doing the same thing.

Everyone who comes here comes here because they want attention from others, they would like some external validation, some positive reinforcement from others and some sign that they are still very much thought about, liked, accepted, understood and loved by others and that they are part of the world. It's only human to want these things. However many feel that getting attention is enough, irrespective of whether that attention is positive or negative and that being hated, shunned, rejected, and disliked is much more preferable to being ignored. This is also quite human and would go some way to explain some of the other less desirable behaviour we come across when sat in front of our keyboards and monitors. It's the Internet, and where the good and bad come together and get mixed up with each other.

This is why also the online BDSM community in some ways is not much different to your average pre-school kindergarten or playgroup for 3 and 4 year olds. You get the same patterns of behaviour - people looking to meet and play together, others just coming here to dress up, others coming to show off their toys, others acting up because they think it will get them a spanking, others come here to tell porkies, others come here to call other people rude names and others come here looking what whatever it is they're looking for and they throw incredible tantrums when they don't get their own way.

And this is not forgetting those who come here just to show off their rude bits and willies.

_____________________________

CM's Resident Lyricist
also Facebook
http://stella.baker.tripod.com/
50NZpoints
Q2
Simply Q

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: the trouble is - 11/18/2009 2:59:47 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2




i think its just that there are rules to getting older and im starting to face that.






um - lally, i hate to be the one to tell you this but there is no hand book for getting older. At least, i haven't been issued my copy yet.
When i was 21, i wanted to be like my mother when i was older - dignified, ladylike, never wore trousers, hair always looked great etc etc etc

The problem is is that i am not my mother, i am me - and i wear trousers, and sit on the floor, and , my hair gets messy because it is a different texture than my mothers. I can't age like her, because i am not her. I have to age like my self, and that means i am not as dignified as she is, and my hair is long - even though "old" women shouldn't have hair past their shoulders (yes, that is one of my mums edicts). And there is always going to be something that she (or someone ) is going to disapprove of, or think i should be doing differently, or not at all.

I have to be the person i am supposed to be, and i am comfortable with that - and some of my comfort has come with the realisation that i can't ever be as good as my mum - because the way i saw my mum was coloured by who i was at the time i was seeing her. I always thought i was a lousy housekeeper, because my mum vaccumed every day and i didn't, and she cleaned the floors every week and i didn't and so on and so on - but the reality is and was was that i worked full time and raised kids and cleaned - where my mum didn't have a full time outside of the house job. I didn't and don't have the time or the resources that she had and has, and there is no way i can live up to that standard - that i made up. It certainly wasn't my mums standard.
Now i know that she vacuumed every day because there were eight people living in the house, and it needed it. She didn't want to do it that often. She had to - and i didn't need to vacuum that often.

The point i am making is that you are imposing an articial standard on yourself. Regardless of where it comes from, the idea that you can't be naked infront of others because you are 40 and not 20 is absurd. No-one expects a 40 year old to look like a 20 year old - and the truth is they can't. But you can look as hot as you want at 40, and carry it off way better than any 20 year old, because you have the experience to back it up.

please excuse the lenght of the post - apparently this is something i have been thinking about in the back of my head.

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: the trouble is - 11/18/2009 3:26:28 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2


quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

As trite and cliche as it may sound, I've found it to be true over and over.  It always shows up when you stop looking.  I was looking for a one night stand 14.5 years ago, and have been with M. ever since.  I wanted NO relationship, I just got out of one 2 days before.  I just wanted to get laid.  I was specifically NOT looking for a relationship.  Then I met B. almost 3 years ago now.  I was specifically NEVER looking for another partner.  Guess what...  I met the pet about 3 years ago now too.  I was very blatantly NOT looking for a sub.  I specifically said to a friend of mine not 3 hours before "I don't want a sub right now.  I don't think I'm in the best point in my life to be seeking."  HA!  Too damned bad, I suppose.  And my ex, we were together for 4 years.  I wasn't wanting a relationship then.  I wanted to go to the craft store and do some ceramics projects.  Pfft.  The universal cupidmonster had other things in mind I guess.

So seriously, stop actively looking.  Probably go with pointedly NOT looking.  It seems to work pretty damned well for some reason.




okeydoke!! - and now that cupidmaster has done for you can you send him over here please!


It happened just this way for me too; I wasn't looking at all and he found me.

So, I will send Cupid to you straight away, but you have to promise not to look.

"so, am i the sum total of my ability to submit to BDSM play?. nope and i never was and yet that seems to be the expectation out there. so im asking you guys, has the simple art of Ds in its simplest format of two people simply being themselves without the trappings of floggers, chains and paddles to express themselves got lost somewhere. im not talking to the absolute exclusion of BDSM, whips and chains but i am talking about the interplay of dominant and submissive natures melding like any other relationship and just being the ying to their yang and symbiotically, naturally just being themselves without effort and protocol slowing it all down."
 
lally,
I think many people get caught up in the packaging of BDSM.
But as you know, this is not a one-size-fits-all world.
Often the accoutrements are a distraction from the dynamic and for some people that is all they have.


While you are busy doing other things (and waiting for Cupid to strike) maybe taking time to figure out what you really want, as part of this chapter in the lally Is Magnificent book would be a useful thing to do.
Knowing what you want (and don't want) can go a long way in warding off disillusionment.

I think the wisdom of experience is more beautiful than a prettily wrapped but empty box.




_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: the trouble is - 11/18/2009 4:35:56 PM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

as a woman gets older her identity and sense of self changes. as missokyst says 'you dont want to be that old broad' (love that line). im pretty damn sure i dont look so good trussed up like a turkey as i used to and in there are all sorts of insecurities about what im doing.

there is great dignity and beauty in submission, years back i knew a sub in her late fifties whose serenity and grace completely blew me away, she was completely stunning in her poise and self certainty. her relationship was more Ds than bdsm, though i know there was bdsm in her relationship. id like to be like her and find what she had there.

trying to make this forty something woman into a twenty something kitten just aint workin' for me.


Then stop trying! 

This sounds like you're coming to terms with getting older.  We all hit that wall at one time or another.  Do I, at 44, look like I did at 22?  Hell no.  Does my Sir look the way he did at 22?  Hell no.  lol  Don't get me wrong - we find each other enormously attractive - just not in the same way as when we were younger.  I wouldn't have it any other way.  To know that he does the things he does to me even when I'm nowhere near in the shape I want to be in, or that he loves my breasts even though they've nursed 3 kids - to know we have that physical connection even with all of that - to me, that's what's helped solidify our relationship. 

My sense of self has changed as I've gotten older.  I'm more confident.  I don't give a fig about what others think.  I say what I mean and mean what I say.  I'm more relaxed.  I do things with E that I can't imagine ever doing in my 20's with the same sense of confidence, or dare I say it, sexiness! 

I think you're looking at limitations as you're getting older, but maybe you will come to see freedom instead.  Self-confidence shines through regardless of wrinkles or cellulite. 



_____________________________

** Owned by E **

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: the trouble is - 11/18/2009 5:23:40 PM   
AnnaOfAramis


Posts: 523
Joined: 7/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

am i wrong in my conclusion then that this lifestyle or whatever it is, is all about how much pain you can take, how long you can kneel in one position, how submissive you are to having youre nipples twisted so hard its unbearable. what sort of gobshite does it make me to be humiliated and objectified and made to struggle to prove my submissive nature.

all the hours ive spent struggling with myself, internalising, growing, developing, changing, hankering, trusting, trying, crying, pushing limits, pushing myself all for the glorious accolade of a 'good girl' pat on the head.

someone sent me a cmail today asking me what it is exactly that makes me a slave. damn good question. i suppose the answer is 'depends who im with'.

the thing is that in my heart i am a sub i can be a slave and over the years ive developed a taste for some of the BDSM activities around. but that isnt why im here and it isnt why i started out and so when i get cmails from guys wanting a long list of kinky things from me all i can think to myself is 'oh god, here we go again, the same old boring, one dimensional crap'

so, am i the sum total of my ability to submit to BDSM play?. nope and i never was and yet that seems to be the expectation out there. so im asking you guys, has the simple art of Ds in its simplest format of two people simply being themselves without the trappings of floggers, chains and paddles to express themselves got lost somewhere. im not talking to the absolute exclusion of BDSM, whips and chains but i am talking about the interplay of dominant and submissive natures melding like any other relationship and just being the ying to their yang and symbiotically, naturally just being themselves without effort and protocol slowing it all down.


Hi lally,

For me it isn't at all abut how much pain one can take and all of that. Quite simply in my dynamic with my Master, it's about a man mastering a woman. I agree with how Master AnimusRex and Lovingpet describe it. To me, everything else is activities. Activities alone are one dimensional and superficial. It is what is built internally within the people in the dynamic that is important. Everything else is just window dressing.

Well wishes,
anna

_____________________________

in obsequium hominis

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: the trouble is - 11/18/2009 9:14:59 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
so im asking you guys, has the simple art of Ds in its simplest format of two people simply being themselves without the trappings of floggers, chains and paddles to express themselves got lost somewhere. im not talking to the absolute exclusion of BDSM, whips and chains but i am talking about the interplay of dominant and submissive natures melding like any other relationship and just being the ying to their yang and symbiotically, naturally just being themselves without effort and protocol slowing it all down.



Your entire OP was rather beautiful to me.  They say with age comes wisdom (we can hope, anyway!).  If we're lucky we can have some introspection and understand ourselves better anyway. 

You and I are the same age (well, next week I'll be older than you).  I have finally begun to recognize I'm in my 40s and not getting any younger, and with that, I wanted to find meaning in my life, in who I am, and in the relationships I am in (friendships and otherwise).  Earlier this year I decided I just wanted to be me for awhile, absent any relationship.  I spent a good deal of time getting to know myself, and *gasp* coming to love myself.  I learned sometimes we learn what we don't want before learning what we do want.  It's a good starting point, anyway.

I came to realize I really liked my life, in fact, my life was really good as it was, and being single was just fine with me.  I looked around at the friendships I had (and have), and saw my good fortune to be surrounded by so many awesome and loving people.  I could grow old with these people, my friends.

So when Mr. Man came along and engaged me in conversation, my thought was "My life is pretty damn good right now, and it's going to take someone pretty spectacular to add to the goodness I already have."  I told him that, too.  But he approached things much differently than I had experienced before, in fact, his approach was much like what you described in your OP:  Let's just focus on you and me, being you and me, and the fun and "kinky" stuff will come as it comes, but will not be the focal point of how we relate to each other.  For the first time in my life, at almost-44, I'm in a well rounded, healthy, wonderful relationship, and at its foundation is love, respect and care for each other. 

It can happen.  It begins with you being happy with who you are and where you are, whether someone is in your life or not.  Love yourself, enjoy your life, and be open to possibilities.  In time, what you desire will come to you and you won't even be looking for it. 

I applaud you for sharing with us, and for realizing what's important to you goes way beyond whips and chains and "bdsm stuff."  That's an added bonus with someone you love, but it isn't the foundation to your (future) relationship.  And, yanno?  As men get older (and wiser, we hope), they start thinking these things, too.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: the trouble is - 11/19/2009 3:57:43 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheOldMan

Wellll lally, I know how you feel , it can be a bummer but lets take a look closer.

First, You are NOT unattractive physically.  Remember what one finds attractive another finds repulsive,  nearly all of us are guilty of this to some extent.
Second, your very abilty to engauge in this topic speaks to your maturity, insight and self understanding which only makes you that much more attractive to many of us.  Trust me on this,  as a human being you are a far more interesting indivdual now than you were 20 years ago.  Age and experience give us depth that firm flesh cannot.
Third, the conclusion you reached about limits as opposed to self understanding is both correct and totally incorrect.  While it may seem today in the internet age to be all about how much you can take and how low you'll go,  It all depends on who you talk too, some are shallower than others but real depth requires looking deeper.  I suspect for the one you seek it's more about what's in your heart and soul.   Now that's an easy statement to make but what counts here is the carry through.  How do you MELD two hearts and souls of complementary desire and need?
Take a look at what AnimusRex wrote.  He mentioned how his SO cooked his dinner in just such a way.  That hit ME like a ton of bricks!!!!
For better than 30 years I have sought just such a sub.  One for whom it is not ALL ABOUT HERSELF.  Small considerations, but meaningful ones, the concern to remember and give a damn.  Small things can mean so much.  While I work on the boat does she happily sit with me, not intruding but content to be with me and help in any way I might ask or does she suddenly decide she's going shopping or in to watch TV because she's bored or some such?  Where are her priorities?  On her.......or US?   Some will accuse me of insecurity or being "undom like"  but when it seems 99% of the subs you meet come back around to it being all about them,  Personally I began to question my choices in subs.  Well, I've concluded that at the very least it's not just me, it's the mindset of the times we live in.
Read through enough profiles, talk to enough people and it all can begin to sound the same. It's ALL ABOUT THEM. Dom or Sub, it matters not.
Welllll I've alwas seen my Dom side as coming from a giving place. I am the enabler, the tool that takes her to where she needs to go and back safely and what's in it for me is what comes back, a loving, compliant woman eager to please me. It's symbotic, simple as that.
Symbotic, that's damn tough to find.


im not clever enough to highlight from two posts, but i want to take what youve said and what merc said and explore the dichotomy a little. (mercnbeth). also stella actually. all three of you have hit on the difficulty many people experience.

we all come with certain ideals or expectations, hoping to find them met, but so do the people we meet. on one hand there is the excellent advice to stick to what those ideals are but in almost all relationships i know of, compromise is key. in the end very often you take good with a certain amount of not so good because the good outweighs the less so. the problem with that is often there is one likely to compromise more than the other, Dom or sub - and i fully take on board the fact that Doms have as much trouble trying to find the givers rather than the takers.

because of what this represents to us, and by 'us' i mean the guys actively looking for a relationship rather than a fling we go one of two major routes. we either throw ourselves right into it and give like crazy and cause an imbalance or we take whats given as a meeting of our needs and believe that by doing that we are fulfilling our end of the bargain. whichever one we are at any given time when these two things happen a vacum is created.

why - i think because what we do here is is all about 'I/i'. I want to give, i want to serve, i want to be spanked on my birthday, i want him to control me more/less, i want him to hold me more and ..... so on.

the trick is to transfer the 'I/i' to 'We/we'.

i want to say here that in my last relationship i was very much the taker, not me atall and not how i like to be. he was very generous and really didnt give me much opportunity to be anything more than the taker. and that oddly enough is just as destructive as being the giver into a black hole of taking.

symbiotic relationships are near on impossible to find and maybe more so here when needs and desires, dreams and personalities are so tied up in extra curricular activity that work on different levels for different reasons for different people. is why im returning more to Ds as my starting point.

what this thread has helped me to see more clearly is that who we are is far more important than what we are. but the who gets muddled with the what and then the BDSM adds in its oar too. knowing this and applying this is what i have to do now.

yes, im feeling a bit fragile about my age at the moment and yes NV i do need to spend some time accepting the changes and seeing them as OK. a friend on the other side pointed out that i should stop harking back to when being pretty was all it took to get the man, but in truth it never really did, all i got were men who were into the pretty and werent interested in the me. so no loss there really. and as vapid as that may make me sound it is an adaption im finding a little difficult. in my defence.. lol - plenty of women botox and face lift all over the place and im not going to do that, im going to age gracefully if a tad reluctantly.

actually as i wrote that a little trill went up in my tummy. yeah, a sort of freedom leapt out there for a mo.

to use missokysts words again. i am that old broad or im getting there and actually, now that ive shared this with everyone and got it off my chest it feels ok, its as stella was saying, we do live in the past and hold onto what we remember as ourselves and that holds us back. accepting the changes and changing how we see ourselves and how what we need and hope for has changed too, is incredibly healing.

youve given me heaps to think about, thank you. xx

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to TheOldMan)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: the trouble is - 11/19/2009 4:11:31 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2


quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

As trite and cliche as it may sound, I've found it to be true over and over.  It always shows up when you stop looking.  I was looking for a one night stand 14.5 years ago, and have been with M. ever since.  I wanted NO relationship, I just got out of one 2 days before.  I just wanted to get laid.  I was specifically NOT looking for a relationship.  Then I met B. almost 3 years ago now.  I was specifically NEVER looking for another partner.  Guess what...  I met the pet about 3 years ago now too.  I was very blatantly NOT looking for a sub.  I specifically said to a friend of mine not 3 hours before "I don't want a sub right now.  I don't think I'm in the best point in my life to be seeking."  HA!  Too damned bad, I suppose.  And my ex, we were together for 4 years.  I wasn't wanting a relationship then.  I wanted to go to the craft store and do some ceramics projects.  Pfft.  The universal cupidmonster had other things in mind I guess.

So seriously, stop actively looking.  Probably go with pointedly NOT looking.  It seems to work pretty damned well for some reason.




okeydoke!! - and now that cupidmaster has done for you can you send him over here please!


It happened just this way for me too; I wasn't looking at all and he found me.

So, I will send Cupid to you straight away, but you have to promise not to look.

"so, am i the sum total of my ability to submit to BDSM play?. nope and i never was and yet that seems to be the expectation out there. so im asking you guys, has the simple art of Ds in its simplest format of two people simply being themselves without the trappings of floggers, chains and paddles to express themselves got lost somewhere. im not talking to the absolute exclusion of BDSM, whips and chains but i am talking about the interplay of dominant and submissive natures melding like any other relationship and just being the ying to their yang and symbiotically, naturally just being themselves without effort and protocol slowing it all down."
 
lally,
I think many people get caught up in the packaging of BDSM.
But as you know, this is not a one-size-fits-all world.
Often the accoutrements are a distraction from the dynamic and for some people that is all they have.

yes. and in my attempt to absorb that to one degree or another in my relationships thus far, ive felt who i am spirralling away, noones fault, cept mine i spose. in fact as im writing this i am realising that my attempts to inject me into the equation has got lost somewhere amongst the visual expectations from myself and who i was with. and since the visual aint so great any more it has resulted in me feeling worse than i should about myself. so thank you
While you are busy doing other things (and waiting for Cupid to strike) maybe taking time to figure out what you really want, as part of this chapter in the lally Is Magnificent book would be a useful thing to do.
Knowing what you want (and don't want) can go a long way in warding off disillusionment.

laughing head off here! 'lally the magnificent' not sure im ready for that quite yet! but i get youre point completely. it is time for a whole new chapter and i like a challenge!
it is
I think the wisdom of experience is more beautiful than a prettily wrapped but empty box.

i think so too. i find wisdom in others such a turn on





_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: the trouble is - 11/19/2009 4:19:25 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

i think ive lost faith in myself or at least i think ive lost faith in 'this' as a process or as a means to finding happyness with someone.


Bottom line...this is a positive thing to realize. Happiness does not come from With-out. It comes from Within.

We will never be happy if we look outside of ourselves to fulfill us. Its our job to be complete without another person completing us. I think only then can we really attract a healthy person to our lives.

And frickity frack! i have to make it all work for myself by myself.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: the trouble is - 11/19/2009 4:23:53 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mc1234

quote:

as a woman gets older her identity and sense of self changes. as missokyst says 'you dont want to be that old broad' (love that line). im pretty damn sure i dont look so good trussed up like a turkey as i used to and in there are all sorts of insecurities about what im doing.

there is great dignity and beauty in submission, years back i knew a sub in her late fifties whose serenity and grace completely blew me away, she was completely stunning in her poise and self certainty. her relationship was more Ds than bdsm, though i know there was bdsm in her relationship. id like to be like her and find what she had there.

trying to make this forty something woman into a twenty something kitten just aint workin' for me.


Then stop trying! 
.I think you're looking at limitations as you're getting older, but maybe you will come to see freedom instead. Self-confidence shines through regardless of wrinkles or cellulite. 





you know, i just did a moment ago! - a kinda releasing myself from the pressure of wanting to be that tight little package i used to be. in my head has been this feeling/thought that i wanted to be beautiful for my Master, whoever he may be. im not saying that ive gone to hell in a basket here lol, but, well, yanno.

ah, this has been really cathartic, thank you, everyone. xxx

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to mc1234)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: the trouble is - 11/19/2009 4:36:41 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12


quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2




i think its just that there are rules to getting older and im starting to face that.



um - lally, i hate to be the one to tell you this but there is no hand book for getting older. At least, i haven't been issued my copy yet..

well there ought to be one to help twats like me!!!

.The point i am making is that you are imposing an articial standard on yourself. .

yes, i realise that now. i kinda knew it but hit a big low a few weeks back, had it shoved in my face a bit too much and came out feeling like a crone - well i am a pagan! lol, i actually started looking up stuff on old witches and comparing myself with them - i dont have the nose or warts but my hair might go that way if im not careful! - oh jeeze!

please excuse the lenght of the post - apparently this is something i have been thinking about in the back of my head.

well, im glad. always when i post some sort of self indulgent anxt on here , i hope that it is topical enough to touch other peeps too - doesnt make it feel quite so self indulgent



< Message edited by lally2 -- 11/19/2009 4:37:41 AM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: the trouble is - 11/19/2009 4:53:41 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		I had to take a peek at your profile to see how "old" you are.  Heck I was your age when I really began this journey in earnest.  I was 55 when I met my Master.

But there was a time when I wondered if I would ever be good enough to be wanted in the kind of relationship I wanted.  Then I realized I did myself a disservice to worry about things over which I have no control.  I have no control over getting older (other than the obvious and that's not an option for me).  I have no control over the Dominants who seek to prove themselves to others by what they dangle on a leash.  I have no control over what others find beautiful or attractive.  So it makes no sense to worry about those things.

What did I really want?  In a nutshell, to feel necessary, needed. to be able to serve others, to feel bound and controlled.  Could I really accomplish this without a partner?  Yes!  Yes, I can!  I began looking for opportunities to serve, not as a sex object but as a submissive woman.  Opportunities abound!  And there were countless opportunities to engage in bdsm activities without some forever-after attachment.  Not casual don't know his name trysts, but fun, friendly relationships with good people not seeking permanance.

I was able to see myself as a solitary submissive, find the real advatages of being solitary and rejoice in it.  Being solitary really opened me up to be more to more people, to serve on a very different level, to find new challenges and adventures.  Plus, the idea of being some kind of "rogue" submissive appealed to me on a romantic level.

Funny, once I got really into my new role, happy and contented, busy and fulfilled, my Master found me. 

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: the trouble is - 11/19/2009 5:37:09 AM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

you know, i just did a moment ago! - a kinda releasing myself from the pressure of wanting to be that tight little package i used to be. in my head has been this feeling/thought that i wanted to be beautiful for my Master, whoever he may be. im not saying that ive gone to hell in a basket here lol, but, well, yanno.


  Wonderful! 



_____________________________

** Owned by E **

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: the trouble is - 11/19/2009 6:44:50 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

I had to take a peek at your profile to see how "old" you are.  Heck I was your age when I really began this journey in earnest.  I was 55 when I met my Master.

But there was a time when I wondered if I would ever be good enough to be wanted in the kind of relationship I wanted.  Then I realized I did myself a disservice to worry about things over which I have no control.  I have no control over getting older (other than the obvious and that's not an option for me).  I have no control over the Dominants who seek to prove themselves to others by what they dangle on a leash.  I have no control over what others find beautiful or attractive.  So it makes no sense to worry about those things.

What did I really want?  In a nutshell, to feel necessary, needed. to be able to serve others, to feel bound and controlled.  Could I really accomplish this without a partner?  Yes!  Yes, I can!  I began looking for opportunities to serve, not as a sex object but as a submissive woman.  Opportunities abound!  And there were countless opportunities to engage in bdsm activities without some forever-after attachment.  Not casual don't know his name trysts, but fun, friendly relationships with good people not seeking permanance.

I was able to see myself as a solitary submissive, find the real advatages of being solitary and rejoice in it.  Being solitary really opened me up to be more to more people, to serve on a very different level, to find new challenges and adventures.  Plus, the idea of being some kind of "rogue" submissive appealed to me on a romantic level.

Funny, once I got really into my new role, happy and contented, busy and fulfilled, my Master found me. 



xx

im ok being solitary - im just not ok with this awful stop start here we go again thang i have going here after a while it kinda knocks youre confidence and leaves you wondering what the hell is wrong with you. in the end you internalise the failures and realise something has to change.

you guys have helped me to realise that its me that has to change - change sucks.

like you and NV spending time on my own working myself out has been a big part of this year and like you both and others too, i reached a point where i was extremely happy doing my thing and being submissive, infact to the processes of pagan spiritualism, that has helped me an awful lot and has helped me to find some serious inner peace.

its just like ive said earlier, if youre on here youre gonna be approached and i dont want to get it wrong again.

keeping in focus who you are now, not who you were or who youd like to think you are and like a friend asked me on the other side 'work out what makes you feel loved' - that is a really hard question to answer.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: the trouble is - 11/19/2009 7:02:58 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

i think ive lost faith in myself or at least i think ive lost faith in 'this' as a process or as a means to finding happyness with someone.


Bottom line...this is a positive thing to realize. Happiness does not come from With-out. It comes from Within.

We will never be happy if we look outside of ourselves to fulfill us. Its our job to be complete without another person completing us. I think only then can we really attract a healthy person to our lives.

And frickity frack! i have to make it all work for myself by myself.


i agree but we interract all of the time with whats outside of us, infact its that interraction that fuels and changes what we become internally. if i stood in the middle of a field and simply reflected on me i would miss the point of being in the middle of a field.

im not being facetious here, i genuinely want to understand what you mean by happyness coming from within.

id argue that everyone has that happyness, it might not come in huge bursts, it might just be that youve bought youreself a bar of choccy and are about to sit infront of a dvd youve been gagging to watch and never got around to.

being self sufficient without the need for a man in my life, well, i reckon after nearly 10 years on and off ive pretty much cornered that. lol

it isnt about needing a man - sorry guys but really, i have close mates, i have a vibrator, i can go to bed when i want, eat when i want, go out when i want, have all my spare time to myself - its ok, im ok - but yes, having someone to curl up with, share the sort of intimacy that only two people who are really into each other can share and explore things that only a Ds couple are likely to explore in the manner and spirit of Ds, yes, that would be good too.

but i might well be missing the point youre making. its been known

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: the trouble is - 11/19/2009 7:04:29 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mc1234

quote:

you know, i just did a moment ago! - a kinda releasing myself from the pressure of wanting to be that tight little package i used to be. in my head has been this feeling/thought that i wanted to be beautiful for my Master, whoever he may be. im not saying that ive gone to hell in a basket here lol, but, well, yanno.


  Wonderful! 




yes, it was and im gonna work on it and its thanks to all you guys that ive reached this, sometimes you cant see whats right there in front of you, all by youreself.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to mc1234)
Profile   Post #: 60
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