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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/22/2009 3:04:33 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Killing everybody in Somalia would involve a pretty large scale, and so expensive military exercise.

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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/22/2009 3:44:03 PM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

Popeye I never said we (the US) should give them anything. I restate - We (the US) are not responsible for the world.

I think "blowing them out of the water" saves the ship that kills them but there will be more pirates after that. Why not look to the root cause for why people with money can hire them to be thugs??

People who believe in Capitalism think the market can solve everything. Why not create a business that hires people for a decent wage and makes a profit at the same time??


While it is true that the place is such a shambles that piracy IS lucrative, however, they DO have the choice to invest their energy into infrastructure development as opposed to becoming robbers, brigands, and murderers.  This of course is a long term solution.

Yet because they have choosen the short term solution of becoming robbers, brigands, and murderers, they should die. 


The pirates in the boat don't own the boat. Go after the money-men behind the piracy through the courts, create an infrastructure (hopefully at a profit for the financiers of legitimate business) that creates jobs that people can actually live on.  Everybody wins.

Sometimes short term is all one has to go on. If your family is hungry and desperate enough, you would steal, rob and extort, too.


I disagree with that idea, it is akin to the thought to go after big drug barons, rather than the small fry dealer on the street. Make life very hard for the barons and big money behind piracy, (if indeed there is big money behind it), by getting them on the front line first, and keep getting them. That way people, the common or garden desperate crook gets the idea that doing someone elses bidding for whatever rewards is just not worth it. I mean mr pirate could be promised rich rewards for attacking shipping, go out on his first mission and die, the more of these people that either get captured, or blasted out of the water, the less likely others will follow in their footsteps, that way whoever is behind this has difficulties because he can't buy the manpower.

If the stance is taken to go after mr big, whilst that is happening, off trundles the small fry to attack shipping, if mr big is taken down, another will step in their place, life continues with the piracy as it does with any other crime. The only solution, is to tackle the crime at the level it is committed.


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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/23/2009 1:12:58 PM   
hlen5


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Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		(In answer to Kirata) This is the first link I have found that mentions money behind the scenes. I'm looking for more. http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0531/p06s03-woaf.html

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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/23/2009 1:24:06 PM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		Here is a second link. I can't look for anymore  today. http://www.newsweek.com/id/194899/page/3


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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/23/2009 2:14:27 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

(In answer to Kirata) This is the first link I have found that mentions money behind the scenes.

Yes, I see that this is becoming quite a little industry and attracting investors. It didn't start out that way, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Thank you.

K.

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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/23/2009 2:43:19 PM   
HunterS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

So I am the only one who thinks pirates should be shot?


"Level the fucking shithole....... " Mnot post 2

"Those pirates have no respect what so ever for law and order. Only raw and brutal power. Well the yanks got a simple creedo. Send the marines. Every single ship laying off the coast of Somalia in the hands of pirates should find them self suddenly in the presence of a warship, with the apache helicopters hovering above and special ops forces been lowered down from hueyes. The forces under order to shoot first and ask silly questions later. No prisoners to be taken. Some warships stationen in the area with helicopters on board surveying every craft coming of the coast and if they armed like the pirates blast them out of the waters. " Rockspider post 4

"All it needs, is an old time raider, a warship disguised as a merchant ship, lure them in with promises of fat goods to be seized, then drop the hoardings and blast them out of the water. " anerin post 6

"I have to agree with Ron. I would go even farther. I would ask the pirates if they have any family back home, and if they say yes, obliterate their country. "Now MF you wanna play ?'' Termin8tor post 8

"I don't know. Have we done anything with a few of these yet? " (picture of a destroyer) Kirata post 27

"NOW the only option is to clean them out but the real mistake was people that gave in to blackmail in the first place. IF from the very beginning countries had taken the line of the United States there would be no piracy today." (shooting them in the head) Kd sub post 32

"FR-
I agree with Kirata. "animus rex post 45

"Personally, I'm partial to a flight of F-18s. At over 1100 MPH, they can get from Point A to Point B quickly enough to actually influence the outcome. Optimally, by blowing the pirate vessel out of the water. The only way this piracy fad is going to be snuffed out is by sinking some of the bastards. No mercy; destroy them. Many of them, often."" Panda post 53




So I am the only one who thinks that way? A consensus of one?

Welcome to the world of trolls who attack on person, even when what they are saying is nonsesne. or unedeucated types who don't know what "consensus" means.

And not a single post saying we have to arrest and give them trials....



A gang of ignorant thugs expresses the consensus of that gang of thugs and no other.

H.

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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/23/2009 7:49:26 PM   
Rhodes85


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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

The pirates in the boat don't own the boat. Go after the money-men behind the piracy

Where did you get that idea? The pirate gangs are predominantly composed of local fishermen...



And thanks to their financially stunning success, they don't need any "money-men" to help them.

K.



heh I showed that to a brazillian guy and he replied 'damn! they have boats in the favela now?!'

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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/23/2009 8:09:35 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


A gang of ignorant thugs expresses the consensus of that gang of thugs and no other.

H.



Interesting that those of us that believe that these robbers, murderers, and brigands should be eliminated are the thugs.  Crazy us that believe in the rule of law and those laws state that pirates forfiet their lives. 

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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/23/2009 8:13:57 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


A gang of ignorant thugs expresses the consensus of that gang of thugs and no other.

H.



Please educate us ignorant thugs. What would be your solution?


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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/23/2009 8:18:38 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		It is, at least, an instructive lesson in why we should give a damn when a country has no effective government.


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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/24/2009 1:48:22 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

(In answer to Kirata) This is the first link I have found that mentions money behind the scenes.

Yes, I see that this is becoming quite a little industry and attracting investors. It didn't start out that way, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Thank you.

K.

Actually I'm glad you asked me to supply any evidence. After you asked me where I got that idea, I needed to double check it for myself. Thanks!!

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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/24/2009 1:27:41 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


A gang of ignorant thugs expresses the consensus of that gang of thugs and no other.

H.



Interesting that those of us that believe that these robbers, murderers, and brigands should be eliminated are the thugs.  Crazy us that believe in the rule of law and those laws state that pirates forfiet their lives. 



Perhaps you might want to do a little personal research because you do not seem to have too firm a grasp on the particulars of the situation. Robber,thief,murderer,brigand....all words used to describe Washington,Adams,Franklin ....et al.

H.

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/24/2009 1:30:41 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


A gang of ignorant thugs expresses the consensus of that gang of thugs and no other.

H.



Please educate us ignorant thugs. What would be your solution?




I read your post a lot and you are a bright person. It would take you about an hour or two to bring yourself up to speed as to why the "pirates" are pirates.
Once you know the depth and bredth of a problem then solutions seem to cry out.

H.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/24/2009 1:39:53 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		On the subject of pirates and though this was a few weeks back, Gordon Brown came out with a gem when asked about the Chandlers. "I believe those holding the Chandlers should respect international law".

Hmmm. How to be a pirate, whilst respecting international law...... I guess the solution is to make the international law and be its arbiter.

E

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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/24/2009 1:43:51 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


A gang of ignorant thugs expresses the consensus of that gang of thugs and no other.

H.



Interesting that those of us that believe that these robbers, murderers, and brigands should be eliminated are the thugs.  Crazy us that believe in the rule of law and those laws state that pirates forfiet their lives. 



Perhaps you might want to do a little personal research because you do not seem to have too firm a grasp on the particulars of the situation. Robber,thief,murderer,brigand....all words used to describe Washington,Adams,Franklin ....et al.

H.
And just whon,other than the King and his minions ever characterised Washington,Adams,Franklin....et al as Robber,thief,murderer or brigand....hell Franklin was the most celebrated person at court in Paris during the entirety of the War for Independence!
His likeness was used to sell numerous trinkets,his attendance the most saught after at every salon in France!

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RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/24/2009 1:47:30 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

On the subject of pirates and though this was a few weeks back, Gordon Brown came out with a gem when asked about the Chandlers. "I believe those holding the Chandlers should respect international law".

Hmmm. How to be a pirate, whilst respecting international law...... I guess the solution is to make the international law and be its arbiter.

E

That said, at least Brown did say something. He normally refuses to open his trap until the story's rolled over and died, doesn't he?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/24/2009 3:15:40 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


A gang of ignorant thugs expresses the consensus of that gang of thugs and no other.

H.



Interesting that those of us that believe that these robbers, murderers, and brigands should be eliminated are the thugs.  Crazy us that believe in the rule of law and those laws state that pirates forfiet their lives. 



Perhaps you might want to do a little personal research because you do not seem to have too firm a grasp on the particulars of the situation. Robber,thief,murderer,brigand....all words used to describe Washington,Adams,Franklin ....et al.

H.


So the F*** what!  They have all been dead and buried for 2 centuries.  That has NOTHING to do with the current situation. 

Or are you suggesting that these poor little misunderstood pirates are really just upset about taxation without representaion?  Is there some insane monarchy making them pay for a war? 

Perhaps you should book passage over there and expalin that you understand their "pain" and are there to help them out.  See how that works out for you. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/24/2009 4:30:39 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


So the F*** what!  They have all been dead and buried for 2 centuries.  That has NOTHING to do with the current situation. 

Or are you suggesting that these poor little misunderstood pirates are really just upset about taxation without representaion?  Is there some insane monarchy making them pay for a war? 

Perhaps you should book passage over there and expalin that you understand their "pain" and are there to help them out.  See how that works out for you. 



Far better to curse the darkness than light a ...blah blah blah


H.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/24/2009 4:43:00 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
And just whon,other than the King and his minions ever characterised Washington,Adams,Franklin....et al as Robber,thief,murderer or brigand....hell Franklin was the most celebrated person at court in Paris during the entirety of the War for Independence!
His likeness was used to sell numerous trinkets,his attendance the most saught after at every salon in France!


Being,arguably, the most powerful nation on the planet at the time I should think that might give them some standing.

Franklin was in and out of favor at the whim of the King. One of the trinkets with his likeness that was most sought after were the "chamber pots" that the king had cast with Franklins face in the bottom....seems 'ol Ben' had been dippin his quill in royal ink...and Le Roi....was not amused.

Yesterdays terrorists are todays freedom fighters...if the Britts had won that war how many high schools or streets in this country would be named Washington,Jefferson,Franklin.....et al?

H.

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: paying ransoms to pirates - 11/24/2009 4:47:29 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

On the subject of pirates and though this was a few weeks back, Gordon Brown came out with a gem when asked about the Chandlers. "I believe those holding the Chandlers should respect international law".

Hmmm. How to be a pirate, whilst respecting international law...... I guess the solution is to make the international law and be its arbiter.

E




Did he also caution the U.S. to do the same with those whom they are holding hostage?

H.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 100
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