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RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/24/2009 3:20:34 PM   
Slavehandsome


Posts: 382
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		Daddy, its not that Clinton was seeking regime change before Bush was, but rather, the same guys in the Pentagon were always seeking regime change. Setting tyrants like Saddam up, is the same game as setting Clinton, Bush and Obama up. They agree to play the game, and when you think about it, its the same game of watching nations rise and fall.


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/24/2009 3:24:30 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Ironic how the right want taxes to pay for military budgets but not for health care in the USA.


Was is that ironic? The military is the role of the government, health care isnt.


Say who ? This may come as a shock but the people should decide what is and isnt the role of the Government. Didnt the election result teach you anything ?

Would he have spent the last nine odd months complaining about Obama if it had?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/24/2009 3:26:43 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Ironic how the right want taxes to pay for military budgets but not for health care in the USA.


Was is that ironic? The military is the role of the government, health care isnt.


Say who ? This may come as a shock but the people should decide what is and isnt the role of the Government. Didnt the election result teach you anything ?

Would he have spent the last nine odd months complaining about Obama if it had?


Good point.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/24/2009 5:03:51 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

Well, at least upon hearing this, Obama has pledged to 'finish the job', alternately titled 'stay the course' or 'bow to the same masters as Clinton, Bush etc'. Its funny to hear WillBeUrDaddy say that Clinton had it in for Saddam just like Bush did, and that's because they're given briefings from the same Pentagon sources, sources that do not come and go every 4 or 8 years. Of course the truth eventually come out, but now that we've thrown as much money and power to the same tyrants who caused all of this, the truth no longer matters does it? Nobody's going to rescind any of the Patriot Acts, or reverse any military and law enforcement budgets because of what comes out at those meetings. You'll just see a little story here and there, and then it'll be yesterday's news. Another day in paradise, another empire falls, at least we'll have our proud history right?

Slavehandsome


Why is it funny? You do realize that most people here are in denial that Clinton was also pursuing regime change?

And if this country falls, it will be because of asinine policies that rescind the Patriot Act and reduce miltiary budgets, not the other way around.


Wilbur is just doing his impression of Saddams information minister, the guy who was saying that the mother of all cataclysms was occuring to the american forces, even as we watched them cleaning out the imperial troops in the background at the airport.

What a fuckin card, this guy, huh?

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 1:49:33 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Since 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq and it was never claimed to be so....


What in God's name are you talking about?

It was never claimed to be so?

Bush Defends Assertions of Iraq-Al Qaeda Relationship

President Bush yesterday defended his assertions that there was a relationship between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda, putting him at odds with this week's finding of the bipartisan Sept. 11 commission.

The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting.






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/25/2009 1:59:56 AM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 5:32:39 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Oh dear - looks like the government took fright over the testimony on day one and has taken measures to reduce the damage.

At Prime Minister's Questions today, Gordon Brown was asked by Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg to provide an assurance that the only aspects of evidence that wouldnt be in the final report would be matters of national security.

Mr Brown responded that matters of national security and sensitive international relations would not be in the report but otherwise the enquiry set its own brief.

At which point Mr Clegg produced a government briefing document, apparently just issued, requiring the report to go to government prior to publication so that matters falling under any one of nine aspects might be examined and approved or redacted as required, prior to publication.

Now what could have prompted such a document? Surely, were it not based on the testimony of day one and the expectation of more alike to come, it should have been issued weeks ago when the enquiry was first announced and its panel formed? One wonders too whether civil servants yet to testify, have been similarly briefed on pre-emptive action, not to follow the example set by their colleagues on day one.

Another whitewash will simply not be acceptable, but it looks like its what we're in danger of getting. After all, although the enquiry isnt a Court where anyone will be held guilty for anything, there is a danger of it producing enough evidence for certain people to face one in the near future.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 5:38:50 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Another whitewash will simply not be acceptable, but it looks like its what we're in danger of getting. After all, although the enquiry isnt a Court where anyone will be held guilty for anything, there is a danger of it producing enough evidence for certain people to face one in the near future.

I'd imagine Blair in particular is worried about that possibility.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 5:57:15 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		You might say that MH. I meanwhile couldnt possibly comment. (because I have been pre-emptively briefed).

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 6:02:01 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Heh. As I recall, Bush and Cheney took steps to make sure that they couldn't be tried in the 'States at least afterwards. Pity that didn't occur to their poodle.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 6:05:13 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		It may well yet be that at some point a plane departs for the Hague with a certain person or persons aboard, destined to become on first name terms with Radovan. But it would be utterly amazing if it did, even though as far as I can see it, there is a clear case to answer.

E 

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 6:09:40 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		As it hasn't happened already, it probably won't. It isn't like Thatcher got tried for piracy over sinking the Belgrano is it?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 6:14:57 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Thatcher had no case to answer for the Belgrano, (one of few warships to be sunk twice by the way; it was also sunk at Pearl Harbor); war is war and regardless which way the ship was heading it was an enemy warship. The very essence of war is the absence of law, which is why I find the notion of crimes during war an odd attempt at distinguishing one crime from another when the whole scenario is a collection of crime; the real crime is in starting a war at all.

Which is not to say the loss of life on the Belgrano was in any way a good thing or anything approaching that. And which is not to say Mrs Thatcher ought not be brought up on other charges in my opinion.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 4:50:07 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Today's testimony - that the intelligence on WMDs was "patchy", "sporadic" and otherwise unclear according to those responsible for informing the UK government, at the very same time that Tony Blair was busily and very confidently telling us and Parliament that it was the very opposite and that a definite and imminent threat existed.

And then, days before the invasion the same bods from the Ministry relayed information in readiness for battle that even if Saddam had WMDs, he had no means of delivering them to the battlefield, let alone anywhere else.

And it seems that for the year or so after Saddam was toppled, "desks were thumped" in government frustration that no WMDs had been found, although Mr Blair maintained simultaneously that the evidence was there and was turning up.

"Curiouser and curiouser", thought Alice.... (from "Alice In WMDerland", the alternative title for the final report of the current enquiry).

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 4:52:22 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		How about "Alistair in wonderland" ?

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 5:23:18 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Since 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq and it was never claimed to be so....


What in God's name are you talking about?

It was never claimed to be so?

Bush Defends Assertions of Iraq-Al Qaeda Relationship

President Bush yesterday defended his assertions that there was a relationship between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda, putting him at odds with this week's finding of the bipartisan Sept. 11 commission.

The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting.







Apprently you dont understand that there is a difference between "a relationship with OBL", which there clearly was, and Iraq being complicit in 9/11.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 5:32:24 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		By that standard I have a relationship with Milosevic and ought to stand trial at the Hague; we're both white, we both speak an Indo-European language and we're both raised as Christians, and even though I had no hand in what happened in the former Yugoslavia, my relationship with those who have makes me vulnerable to "legal" remedy against me.

On the other hand, if youre arguing that because Saddam knew of Bin Laden and his movement this makes him liable to remedy for 911 even though as you seem to admit he was not complicit in it, does this not indicate that the entire population of the US must stand liable for any and all illegal acts committed in Iraq in particular and in the wider world more generally?

E



_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 5:59:16 PM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		lady E do you remember why Clinton bombed Sudan, Afghanistan and Iraq in 98?


Why was the Al shifa pharmacuticle campus in Sudan Bombed???


_____________________________

I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 6:10:06 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

By that standard I have a relationship with Milosevic and ought to stand trial at the Hague; we're both white, we both speak an Indo-European language and we're both raised as Christians, and even though I had no hand in what happened in the former Yugoslavia, my relationship with those who have makes me vulnerable to "legal" remedy against me.

On the other hand, if youre arguing that because Saddam knew of Bin Laden and his movement this makes him liable to remedy for 911 even though as you seem to admit he was not complicit in it, does this not indicate that the entire population of the US must stand liable for any and all illegal acts committed in Iraq in particular and in the wider world more generally?

E



What in gods name could you be responding to with this. I specifically said that 9/11 had nothing to do with going into Iraq, and it was never claimed to be a reason. Then someone posted a lie about Bush claiming that 9/11 was a reason. Maybe you were responding to him?

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 6:23:06 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Well now, I believe Clinton launched a combined attack on Sudan and Afghanistan in response to the bombings of US assets, to send the two countries a message about providing a safe haven to Osama and his followers, to whom the bombings had been linked.

Specifically, officials said that the attack on Afghanistan was not intended to kill Osama, who was unharmed. Sudan condemned the attack on its pharmaceutical plant, which I dont believe has been shown since to have been anything other than?

And I believe the attack on Iraq, some years before, was on the Iraqi Intelligence Ministry, it having been linked to a plot to assassinate Bush senior, albeit by way of some fairly dodgy intelligence originating from Kuwait.

I fail to see any relationship suggested or supported between Saddam and Osama by virtue of these two events?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to luckydawg)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 6:34:37 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Since 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq and it was never claimed to be so



As Jon Stewart would say, "roll tape!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYI7JXGqd0o&feature=PlayList&p=031A783F26865241&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=104

money quote at 2:30

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 40
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