Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: The new Iraq Enquiry


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: The new Iraq Enquiry Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 6:36:39 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
The point is that Bush said that there was a link, not that you now claim that he did not or that you now do not.

Further, the evidence coming out at the inquiry is now showing clearly that although in one sense your position is correct - that 911 had nothing to do with the attack on Iraq - the 911 attacks were used, by way of erroneous, deliberate and contrived association, to justify the attack on Iraq.

And that makes the whole thing not a lawfully defensible defence of the US (or for that matter Britain) but a criminal act according to the standards set and upheld by the US and Britain at Nuernberg and maintained in all other respects since.

The problem you have is that Bush is either a liar or an idiot by the testimony now coming out, as also is Blair, and only by one of those identities might he escape the strongest condemnation as to the war crime that ensued.



_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 6:43:42 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Ironic how the right want taxes to pay for military budgets but not for health care in the USA.

Was is that ironic? The military is the role of the government, health care isnt.

Say who ? This may come as a shock but the people should decide what is and isnt the role of the Government. Didnt the election result teach you anything ?


Sigh...Politesub, I will break this to you gently:
Establishing a civil society in Afghanistan, building their roads, sewers, hospitals, power stations and police stations, and deciding for them which sort of president to select, is the Constitutional duty of our American Empire- er, Government

"providing for the general welfare" of the American People is nowhere to be found in the Constitution.

Please keep this in mind.
Thank you.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 7:41:11 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Since 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq and it was never claimed to be so



As Jon Stewart would say, "roll tape!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYI7JXGqd0o&feature=PlayList&p=031A783F26865241&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=104

money quote at 2:30


Yeah, so it was pretty well confirmed that senior intelligence officials met in Prague. What is "money" about that?

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 7:43:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The point is that Bush said that there was a link, not that you now claim that he did not or that you now do not.

Further, the evidence coming out at the inquiry is now showing clearly that although in one sense your position is correct - that 911 had nothing to do with the attack on Iraq - the 911 attacks were used, by way of erroneous, deliberate and contrived association, to justify the attack on Iraq.

And that makes the whole thing not a lawfully defensible defence of the US (or for that matter Britain) but a criminal act according to the standards set and upheld by the US and Britain at Nuernberg and maintained in all other respects since.

The problem you have is that Bush is either a liar or an idiot by the testimony now coming out, as also is Blair, and only by one of those identities might he escape the strongest condemnation as to the war crime that ensued.




He said there was a relationship, not a link with 9/11. Youre usually better than this, thats been said 3 times in this thread.
They were not used to justify the attack, a link was explicitly denied.

Your last two paragraphs are conclusions based on erroneous premises. Dismissed.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 7:57:29 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What in gods name could you be responding to with this. I specifically said that 9/11 had nothing to do with going into Iraq, and it was never claimed to be a reason. Then someone posted a lie about Bush claiming that 9/11 was a reason. Maybe you were responding to him?


No Willbeur, it was your lie, or maybe just your wish to revise history.

The link I posted wasn't a lie and I could fill up 5 pages of this thread with Bush and other members of his administration implying Saddam's links to Al-Quaeda and 9/11.

Which most people seem to remember except for you.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 8:01:27 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The problem you have is that Bush is either a liar or an idiot by the testimony now coming out....


Are we allowed to choose both?

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 8:19:46 PM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline
hmm your memory seems kind of faulty lady E


Nonetheless, Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen testified to the 9/11 Commission in 2004, characterizing Al Shifa as a "WMD-related facility", which played a "chemical weapons role" such as to pose a risk that it, with the help of the Iraqi chemical weapons program connections he also testified to, might help Al Qaeda get chemical weapons technology.[8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shifa_pharmaceutical_factory


Now I don''t know if clinton was lying and just wanted to kill some Africans,( hundreds of thousands according to Noam chomsky).

But they clearly felt there was alink between OBL adn Saddams government, a strong enough link that they bombed 3rd paryt countries over it



_____________________________

I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/25/2009 8:41:59 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What in gods name could you be responding to with this. I specifically said that 9/11 had nothing to do with going into Iraq, and it was never claimed to be a reason. Then someone posted a lie about Bush claiming that 9/11 was a reason. Maybe you were responding to him?


No Willbeur, it was your lie, or maybe just your wish to revise history.

The link I posted wasn't a lie and I could fill up 5 pages of this thread with Bush and other members of his administration implying Saddam's links to Al-Quaeda and 9/11.

Which most people seem to remember except for you.




the link you posted didnt say that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. Most liberals who want to concoct "implications" can twist words for 5 pages. that doesnt make it reality. something you understand very well,because youre an expert at it.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/26/2009 5:08:47 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

hmm your memory seems kind of faulty lady E


Nonetheless, Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen testified to the 9/11 Commission in 2004, characterizing Al Shifa as a "WMD-related facility", which played a "chemical weapons role" such as to pose a risk that it, with the help of the Iraqi chemical weapons program connections he also testified to, might help Al Qaeda get chemical weapons technology.[8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shifa_pharmaceutical_factory


Now I don''t know if clinton was lying and just wanted to kill some Africans,( hundreds of thousands according to Noam chomsky).

But they clearly felt there was alink between OBL adn Saddams government, a strong enough link that they bombed 3rd paryt countries over it




Well, given that I didnt actually remember the detail I posted but had to go looking for it on Google you might say my memory is faulty, but what I posted came straight from reliable news sources online.

The Sudan and Afghanistan attacks were in response to attacks on US assets designed to send a message about providing a safe haven to Osama and Co. Nothing whatever to do with Saddam Hussein at the time, and one might ask how on Earth he might have benefitted from any WMDs from Sudan anyway, given the sanctions then in place?

E



_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to luckydawg)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/26/2009 5:20:41 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
I think I get it , in a "Malleus Malefecarum" kind of way; there are good guys and then there are bad guys.

All the bad guys must be acting in concert, (one might say an "axis of evil"), and any sign theyre not, (even signs theyre declared enemies), is actually just a ruse to trick the good guys.

If one bad guy does something against the good guys, its perfectly legitimate to hold all the bad guys responsible or just one of them that can be retaliated against most easily.

And anyone that disagrees must be one of the bad guys and definitely in league with them, so its OK too to attack him, and the more he disagrees and protests, the more evidence there is because bad guys are tricky sorts like that.

Thank goodness for the two term limit.  

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/26/2009 5:24:41 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline
I'm just glad he's gone. You can apply that statement to the attacker and the one attacked.

Both deserve to be gone.

I've always felt the Iraq war was a right war fought for all the wrong reasons, and done in an incredibly stupid way.

But there are millions of sand folk and liberal minded people who missed out on the opportunity to scream war crimes at me cause I would have found another Pershing to lead the war.


_____________________________


--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/26/2009 5:57:39 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


The military is the role of the government, health care isnt.


That is not what the constitution says.

H.


< Message edited by HunterS -- 11/26/2009 5:58:39 AM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/26/2009 7:35:35 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

I'm just glad he's gone. You can apply that statement to the attacker and the one attacked.

Both deserve to be gone.

I've always felt the Iraq war was a right war fought for all the wrong reasons, and done in an incredibly stupid way.

But there are millions of sand folk and liberal minded people who missed out on the opportunity to scream war crimes at me cause I would have found another Pershing to lead the war.


I'm not sure that's true. Certainly I don't get the impression that Iraq has become more stable since Hussein was deposed.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/26/2009 7:46:24 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
Oh I wouldnt for one moment hold that removing Saddam wasnt worth doing.

The problem was and remains, that by removing him we acted illegally according to war crime law we set up ourselves, and having no plan for the aftermath we opened up a huge power vacuum that the Iranians have stepped into - this latter is the danger realised by Bush I and Clinton at and after Gulf War I, which danger indicated the foolishness of Bush II on top of the crime.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/26/2009 9:06:47 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
I doubt that Iraqi gays were being tortured to death when Hussein was running the country either, come to that.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/26/2009 1:33:25 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
Today's revelations; http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSGEE5AP1L2

The evidence builds.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/26/2009 3:27:59 PM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Today's revelations; http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSGEE5AP1L2

The evidence builds.

E


Begin Article Quote

George W. Bush and Tony Blair APPEARED to have "converged" on regime change in Iraq after talks at the U.S. president's Texas ranch in April 2002, a former British ambassador to Washington said on Thursday.

Christopher Meyer, ambassador to the United States between 1997 and 2003, said PRIVATE ONE-TO-ONE talks between Bush and the then British Prime Minister SEEMED to mark an important point on the route to the March 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

"I know what the Cabinet Office says were the results of the meeting BUT TO THIS DAY I AM NOT ENTIRELY CLEAR what degree of convergence was, if you like, signed in blood at the Crawford ranch," Meyer told a British inquiry into the Iraq war.

Meyer said comments that Blair made after the Texas meeting SEEMED to signal that his views on whether to overthrow Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein had moved towards Bush's stand.

"There are clues in the speech that Tony Blair gave the next day ... To the best of my knowledge, I MAY BE WRONG, this was the first time that Tony Blair had said in public 'regime change'," Meyer said.

"What he was trying to do was to draw the lessons of 9/11 and apply them to the situation in Iraq which led -- I THINK not inadvertently but deliberately -- to a conflation of the threat posed by Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein."

Speaking to the inquiry in London on its third day, Meyer said: "When I heard that speech, I THOUGHT that this represents a tightening of the UK/U.S. alliance and a degree of convergence on the danger that Saddam Hussein presented."

Some U.S. officials had argued that there were possible links between Saddam and al Qaeda, which was blamed for masterminding the 2001 attacks on the United States. However, these suggestions HAVE SINCE BEEN discredited.

End Article Quote

I, like many others in the beginning of the Iraq War felt we were doing the right thing for the right reason.
Emotions were running high after witnessing the attacks on our fellow citizens, and whether blindly or
otherwise convinced, we stood behind our government's lead and supported their decisions. Alas, we
have since learned, that beyond removing a tyrant from his pedestal in the town square, our efforts to
bring justice to those whom did us harm, found us misinformed, misguided and mistaken about some,
if not all the reasons we entered in. We do not forget however, there exists to this very minute, a real
threat to our safety and well being by those whom wish us harm.

That said, as I read this article, should I be sitting in a court room with this testimony leveled against me,
my guilt or innocence riding on such, following the language, I would rise to my feet, stare my accusers
square in the face and shout, "OBJECTION'. I shall not be convicted by conjecture nor personal thoughts.

I see no evidence in this testimony, though someone appears to be attempting a royal mount of sorts.

I am no fan of the Iraq war or it's continuing fallout. Nor am I a fan of kangaroo courts bloating self satisfaction.

We already know that which has been discredited, must we simply discredit such from every possible angle?

Now would somebody pass the candied yams, please.

chia* (the pet)


_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/27/2009 2:22:52 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

lady E do you remember why Clinton bombed Sudan, Afghanistan and Iraq in 98?


Why was the Al shifa pharmacuticle campus in Sudan Bombed???



You posted a link about that, which said it was based on faulty intelligence. Do you not read your own links properly ?

(in reply to luckydawg)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/27/2009 4:47:05 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
Oh PS, youre so picky! You know as well as I that there were two paragraphs that supported the argument - we can surely ignore the remaining couple of dozen that contradict, undermine and refute the "intelligence" that those two paragraphs contain, for the purposes of reasonable debate?

I wouldnt be surprised if at that, we're next informed that Wikipedia isnt a reliable source anyway, at least as far as the majority of that article goes.

And I'm not at all surprised that the Republican knee jerk response at the time, that the attack was designed not for any other purpose than deflecting attention away from their rightful crusade against the immorality of a Democrat President they were at that time attempting to impeach, has not been mentioned.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The new Iraq Enquiry - 11/27/2009 5:10:13 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
Despite this new inquiry, it is going to be another whitewash, truth might be got at, but Blair will escape any condemnation, because he has too many influential friends, shit just doesn't seem to stick to that guy, he can do anything it seems and come out of whatever smelling of roses, a slippy slimy character.

The only people if any that will receive condemantion are the minnions, the unimportant people and scapegoats will be made.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: The new Iraq Enquiry Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078