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RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 11/29/2009 10:20:22 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveana

of course, but what if you entered a relationship not knowing or if He became unattracted to her sexually after they had been together awhile. If both parties are acceptable to it , thats fine but what if its the slave who is not but the Master denies the slave sex, whether with another or using toys?

If Valyraen becomes unattracted to me sexually than we will either stay together as a sort of friendship or we will drift apart.

If I am denied sex... well then it's not the relationship I submitted to because that isn't the sort of relationship I would enter into. That change would fundamentally rip apart our relationships because I am such a sexual person. I would not be happy while denied sex so... I just wouldn't be his like that anymore. However we continued to relate or not to relate would depend.

Valyraen understands this. He, in fact, encourages this because as his pet, his property, he wants to know that I am the woman he fell in love with and wanted to collar. We might be able to forge a different power dynamic but it wouldn't be the same and it would be starting again. Which isn't to say it would be a bad thing. Relationships change and they can change dramatically. But the rules would change as well.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to slaveana)

Post #: 21

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 11/30/2009 12:52:58 AM

aldompdx

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Joined: 10/24/2004
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The vast majority of slaves in the world have existed for the purpose of service which is not of a sexual nature. The most prized slaves in the Southern U.S. were strong African males, owned by heterosexual European-American males.

(in reply to slaveana)

Post #: 22

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 11/30/2009 6:02:12 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

The vast majority of slaves in the world have existed for the purpose of service which is not of a sexual nature. The most prized slaves in the Southern U.S. were strong African males, owned by heterosexual European-American males.

Which as we all know was probably one of the biggest examples of non consentual slavery. Should someone enter into a "service" type of situation where sex and sexual attraction is not part of the deal from the start, that is one thing. When the relationship is one where sex and sexual intimacy IS part of the deal from the start, for that to change is something quite different. People are not cars that you simply turn in when you tire of them. They come with their own feelings and emotions.

I'm always amazed at how people will place so many "ifs" to a question. Ana's question was precise, the intimacy STOPPED. Therefore, by inference, it existed at one time. Advice on being a service sub/slave, or pre-relationship negotiations are irrelevant to the question at hand. As is your response adlompdx, with all due respect (I have almost always found your posts to be thoughtful and thought provoking). In this case, however, it is a comment to a question never asked. On that subject though, many young female slaves were purchased specifically for their ability to breed additional slaves, preferably with those strong fieldhands, in order to create a constant source of labor.

slaveana, thank you for the respectful title, but really I prefer just "Lafayette Lady" or even just "LL." And I'm glad that my comments provoked more questions. And let's be honest, it is highly unlikely that this scenario was one that someone just thought up. Someone experienced it, and is hurting because of it. I sincerely hope that they resolve it before it does too much damage.

(in reply to aldompdx)

Post #: 23

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 12:09:30 AM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
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This is one of those interesting questions for which there is absolutely no "right" answer in the context of BDSM.. So my answers are for me, rather than "in general";

quote:

If a Master is not physically attracted to His slave, can there be other attractions that sustain the relationship?

For me physical attraction is an important part of overall attraction, but it's not all of it - Chemistry is made up of that whole mix of physical appearance, kink, personality, values, and that "ingredient 'X'" that I can't properly define. If the answer to this equation was that I wasn't attracted to someone, the chances are we wouldn't be partners.

quote:

Can you live without that kind of intimacy?

If you're referring to physical sexual intimacy, then - perhaps - I have had non-sexual relationships with subs in the past, and they were fun - But (I have to admit) they didn't endure. If you're referring to "intimacy" in a broader sense then, for me, the answer would be no.

quote:

What if He wishes not to use you but doesnt allow you to be used , does that need to be important to a slave?

I guess that would depend on whether not using the sub and not allowing him/her to be used was a part of the D/s dynamic, or a result of dysfunction. As for whether that needs to be important to a sub or not, surely that depends on how the sub feels about it - If she/he is unfulfilled (in the broader sense rather than just the physical/sexual) then perhaps she/he ought to find a more functional relationship?

quote:

Basically, does it matter if a slave has needs or wants?

I grinned when I saw this - I have bumped into doms who would loudly proclaim "No, it doesn't matter", and I guess that's fair enough if they can find someone for whom that works (and ironically that would only work if the "no it doesn't matter what you need or want" line corresponded - ironically - to the needs and wants of the sub).

My personal take is - "Hell yeah!" I believe that whatever our roles or personality traits, a functional relationship depends absolutely on some equality (more or less) of benefit. The balance of power/rights/expectations in a relationship doesn't need to be equal for both parties to feel they are getting more or less the same benefit from it.

A sub who identifies as a slave, has wants and needs that must be fulfilled in order for the relationship to work - those wants and needs may be unconventional, but they're present, and ultimately if their needs aren't being fulfilled then it's time to talk, and if that doesn't work, maybe it's time to walk..

(in reply to slaveana)

Post #: 24

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 4:08:14 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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I think there is a right answer. If the relationship when started included sex, and he then changes the rules, he has thus invalidated the original relationship. At this point you sit down and discuss your present goals and if there is anyway for the relationship to continue which will satisfy both of you.

Saying "Ha ha, I lied. Now that you have a collar you will never have another orgasm" is bait and switch. If you did it in retail, you get major fines and possibly jail time. Inside a relationship? It ends the relationship as you know it. Should you decide to negotiate a new relationship that includes no sex ever, have fun. Should you say that you would not have entered into this relationship as is, which he knows, and that thus he's broken the relationship and you are not interested in entering into a new relationship with him that includes this, you have that right.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 25

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 5:31:35 AM

Elizabeth666

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Joined: 10/14/2009
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quote:

and stretch marks from bearing a trillion womb-escapers

LOL Love that expression! I think I may borrow it in the future

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 26

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 5:45:20 AM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

If this is a topic posited in order to apply it to a personal situation, then the entire premise is wrong.

The tendency to demean physical attraction as "superficial" guilt-trips a lot of people into feeling they must have some leniency about what they want aesthetically (usually in deference to the more popular 'personality'). We each make concessions in that department based on an honest appraisal of ourselves in that regard, and seek an equitable 'trade' in partnership.

If you were asking the question in order to garner a handful of "It doesn't have to be important because it's what's inside that counts!" just so you could turn around and point your partner at this thread with a "See!", then you've already lost the entire point of a relationship (or worse, tried to make him feel bad for being honest in saying what he feels/wants).

Each individual has prerequisites. We all compromise to a certain degree, but this is no different than trying to get enough public votes in favor of polyamory to convince a partner that they shouldn't want monogamy if that's what they say they wish for.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 12/1/2009 5:46:20 AM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to Elizabeth666)

Post #: 27

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 6:06:45 AM

Lucienne

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Joined: 9/5/2009
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That's a pretty uncharitable read of the OP and the responses.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 28

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 6:13:01 AM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

That's a pretty uncharitable read of the OP and the responses.

1) My post was begun with an "If".
2) I didn't think I needed to go to additional lengths to assure that even if she is doing what I suggest that it does not mean it's intentionally malicious or underhanded...but the results would be just the same regardless.
3) Deferring to "charity" when trying to be honest with someone is, ironically, the equivalent of what she appears to be asking us to suggest her partner should do.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to Lucienne)

Post #: 29

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 6:29:02 AM

Lucienne

Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

That's a pretty uncharitable read of the OP and the responses.

1) My post was begun with an "If".
2) I didn't think I needed to go to additional lengths to assure that even if she is doing what I suggest that it does not mean it's intentionally malicious or underhanded...but the results would be just the same regardless.
3) Deferring to "charity" when trying to be honest with someone is, ironically, the equivalent of what she appears to be asking us to suggest her partner should do.

Well, then, IF your comment was posited to apply to your personal experience and nurtured grievances, then I think you are projecting elements into the thread that aren't there.

IF the OP intended to induce a guilt trip on her partner or not, her original post has not resulted in evidence to support a guilt trip. People responded about how they feel, and the extent to which they could or can maintain relations that don't involve sexual attraction. Perhaps I missed it, but I don't see anyone arguing that the man should find the sub at issue (not the OP, by her own words) physically attractive. I see people saying - if you need the sex and he's not willing or able to give it up, move on.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 30

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 7:23:53 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveana

If a Master is not physically attracted to His slave, can there be other attractions that sustain the relationship? Can you live without that kind of intimacy? What if He wishes not to use you but doesnt allow you to be used , does that need to be important to a slave? Basically, does it matter if a slave has needs or wants?

I do not have to be physically attracted to anyone that serves me. They simply need to understand that it may not be a sexual relationship and that I will then have others that I am attracted to to satisfy that interest.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to slaveana)

Post #: 31

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 7:28:41 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveana
If a Master is not physically attracted to His slave, can there be other attractions that sustain the relationship? Can you live without that kind of intimacy? What if He wishes not to use you but doesnt allow you to be used , does that need to be important to a slave? Basically, does it matter if a slave has needs or wants?

The foremost requirement for a slave is that she obeys.

Yes, the master is responsible for the well-being of his slave. If he is not, the slave will cease to be a slave. If he cannot supply her needs, then he had better look for a solution.

(in reply to slaveana)

Post #: 32

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 8:00:43 AM

sedona

Posts: 1
Joined: 10/30/2009
Status: offline

I think pretty is as pretty does, and you can't judge a book by it's cover. But the same should apply to a Dom. Does a slave have to be physically attractied to her Dom? By the way I'm not vanilla as the picture under my name says.

< Message edited by sedona -- 12/1/2009 8:18:44 AM >

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 33

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 8:37:31 AM

aldompdx

Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

> If a Master is not physically attracted to His slave, can there be other attractions that sustain the relationship?
Yes, the attraction of non-sexual servitude, profitability, abuse, sadism, non-consensual enslavement as happens in many other parts of the world. That constitutes a relationship between owner and slave. See, e.g.:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/69769/global-voices-the-day-my-god-died
Every self proclaimed "slave" should watch this documentary to learn about the difference between the real thing, and their illusory fantasy.

> Can you live without that kind of intimacy?
Yes. Many REAL slaves have stayed alive without sharing intimacy with their owner.

> What if He wishes not to use you but doesnt allow you to be used , does that need to be important to a slave?
> Basically, does it matter if a slave has needs or wants?
Yes, in the context of consensual "BDSM slavery" which is not slavery at all, but surrender by ongoing free choice from self will.
No, in the context of REAL slavery, such as the kind shown in the documentary referenced above.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LafayetteLady,

First, thank you for the positive feedback...

I found the question to be ambiguous, and use terms-of-art which get redefined on this site to mean something other than their etymology indicates. As the above link to a REAL-LIFE documentary clearly shows, many people in the world are in fact used as "cars that you simply turn in when you tire of them." I find it abhorrent how many people here substitute their fantasy for the reality of which they speak. In my experience, most Americans in particular lead highly insular and privileged lives, having never experienced how more than 1/2 of the world actually lives.

< Message edited by aldompdx -- 12/1/2009 8:50:25 AM >

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 34

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 12:32:25 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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I don't think it is all that complicated....I could not be involved in a D/s relationship without:

a. mutual physical and emotional attraction
b. sex

Yes, you do need to look beyond looks, but I do not get anywhere unless intense chemistry is present.

(in reply to aldompdx)

Post #: 35

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 5:47:25 PM

Thatbastard

Posts: 25
Joined: 11/26/2009
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Well, I think for me, the key to your question is in how you phrased it.

His slave.

People tend to have this all or nothing, 0 to 60 view on D/s. It's HIS slave or nothing to them at all. A master might play with a slave. And there doesn't have to be a deeper relationship than that. I think people have confused play with courtship and dating like they tend to confuse a collar with a wedding ring. It's not necessarily the same thing, unless both conciously decide they want it to be, and what attracts a master to want to play with a slave might not necessary attract either to something longer term.

But I think for most having slaves connotates all the complications of attraction that might exhist in any relationship. I think what attracts one to want to make a slave HIS own is really widely varied.

(in reply to slaveana)

Post #: 36

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 8:40:44 PM

slaveana

Posts: 10
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline

Geetings, Master (aldompdx)

ana would like to say she tried to click on the link that You posted in Your post doesnt work. she would also like to say she appreciated Your answers and You gave us slaves fodder for discussion. We actually discussed it more today after seeing we had more posts!

Greetings to Everyone:

We are trying to be good slaves and please our Masters that is why we started a slave round table to have discussions about how we can better ourselves to please all the Free. Sometimes ana has slave friends come over but mostly we all meet on skype. We are never allowed to complain or talk about mundane things, it is strictly about us focusing our attentions on better pleasing the Free. ana did not mean to upset anyone with our questions but she saw the title 'ask a Master' and we thought who better to ask. There are many self proclaimed slaves , she sees many on CM and other websites, claiming to be submissive and slave but making demands of their needs, their wants and all about them them them but never asking how they can be of service, what they can learn to be a better submissive or slave. All ana knows is that ana and the slaves roundtable are truly not like that, we only wish to be of service. Again, ana did in no way meant to be offensive.

ana

(in reply to Thatbastard)

Post #: 37

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/1/2009 9:47:18 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveana

There are many self proclaimed slaves , she sees many on CM and other websites, claiming to be submissive and slave but making demands of their needs, their wants and all about them them them but never asking how they can be of service, what they can learn to be a better submissive or slave.
ana

ana,

You must remember that all slaves/subs who are seeking are seeking someone who will meet their needs, wants and desires. If that were not the case, they would consent to serve the first person that approached them and said they were a "master" or a "dominant." That physical and emotional compatibility needs to be present for it to work. No two M/s relationships are identical because people aren't identical. It is obvious from your posts that you are of the Gorean style. Imagine then being approached by a master who did not share that belief. Regardless of his being a master, you would be incompatible and you would likely CHOOSE not to serve him.

When seeking out a relationship, everyone needs to find someone that for whatever reason will fufill their needs. If the Gorean lifestyle didn't fufill your needs, you would not do it. In a sense, when you were searching you "demanded" to find a master who shared your beliefs in the Gorean lifestyle. A master who did not share this belief would not be fufilling to you. Likewise, someone who identifies as a slave but is seeking to have a loving, intimate relationship with the master they choose to serve has every right to state up front what their "demands," "desires," "needs," and "wants" are. Once in a relationship, if the master and slave have chosen wisely, certainly their life will consist at least partially of seeking out ways to best please their master. It may seem less so because the two started out with enough compatibility that it doesn't need to be a conscious thought.

No matter how you look at things, all slaves have these "demands." When you really look closely, simply having the desire to be someone's slave is really all about you. After all, having that desire, you wouldn't accept a relationship that didn't encompass that dynamic. Isn't it a wonderful thing that you were free to choose to be who you are? Even the level to which you serve is still your choice. Imagine if someone else decided for you whether you would be a slave or even a master, with you having no voice in the matter. Your needs wouldn't matter at all, and consequently, you would have a life that wasn't fufilling for you.

(in reply to slaveana)

Post #: 38

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/2/2009 5:45:24 AM

aldompdx

Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

Global Voices, The Day My God Died
Alternatively, the URL can be copied and pasted into the address bar of your web browser.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/69769/global-voices-the-day-my-god-died
The Hulu website requires the Adobe Flash plug-in to display the video.

This is a PBS "Independent Lens" documentary broadcast on 11/30/04.
PBS, Independent Lens DMGD
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/daymygoddied/
Young girls whose lives were shattered by the child sex trade describe the day they were abducted from their villages as “the day my god died.” By weaving footage from the brothels of Bombay with these girls’ stories, Levine offers an unforgettable examination of the growing plague of child sex slavery.

As I said before:
Every self proclaimed "slave" should watch this documentary to learn about the difference between the real thing, and their illusory fantasy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fulfillment is love. It arises in the only place it is ever felt, one's very own heart. The art of surrender is not in a bargain of giving or taking to get fulfillment, but of sharing the ever present love which shines forth from one's very own heart. By first becoming well established in one's own love, one then gains the capacity to share the most valuable thing of all in life. Sharing the light of one's heart is done with conscious awareness in free choice from self will. True surrender is with strength, not weakness. It is shared with love, not coerced through oppression, abuse, and violence. It is a gift, not to the recipient, but to the one who can share it. Love is amplified in its sharing without condition or bargain.

< Message edited by aldompdx -- 12/2/2009 5:59:05 AM >

(in reply to slaveana)

Post #: 39

RE: Do You have to be physically attracted to your slave? - 12/2/2009 2:44:46 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveana

If a Master is not physically attracted to His slave, can there be other attractions that sustain the relationship?

Yes.

quote:

Can you live without that kind of intimacy?

Personally, no... but I'm sure others can.

quote:

What if He wishes not to use you but doesnt allow you to be used , does that need to be important to a slave?

For some it'd be important, for others it wouldn't.

quote:

Basically, does it matter if a slave has needs or wants?

For some, it doesn't matter... for others it does.

All of this is little more than common sense.

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to slaveana)

Post #: 40

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