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RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/5/2009 8:41:27 AM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
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I'll say this again...because I tend to do that.

A doormat is the first thing you see when you get home and it's always welcoming you in to the comfort of one's house.

From my experience..People that are considered doormats are very easy to get along with..They make great companions and friends, excellent workers, are very attentive to the people around them and just all around good people who I would love to surround myself with.

So send me all you can..whether it be just for friends or companionship. I'm good either way.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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Post #: 41

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/5/2009 8:46:41 AM

mareysexy

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/4/2009
Status: offline

i understand what you are talking about.i think am ready for it.but it all depend on you cos i serve my master with everything i got.

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 42

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/5/2009 10:08:02 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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Most people will be firm in their beliefs and actions at some times while not in others - that's natural - human anxiety/confidence issues that we all have.

I don't see why there's a need to pigeon hole people as either strong or weak......well I do actually.....it's bound up in the identity that we all crave....but in reality very few people could be described as doormats and zero people could be described as always 'strong'.

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Post #: 43

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/5/2009 10:45:04 AM

lally2

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Joined: 4/16/2009
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i think the terminology 'doormat' is more a mainstream derogative.

here our interpretations get muddled and contradictory because as icarys points out, and others, to be that compliant, obedient submissive is to fulfill and achieve the thing we all strive to be and/or find.

i dont believe the term has a place in this lifestyle atall.

as wisdomtogive says, to be a doormat takes huge strength and id agree with her. to give over that degree of control, compliance and trust requires an awful lot of internal strength and self awareness. therefore they are not a doormat by definition atall, which is why i cant help feeling the term just doesnt belong here.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

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Post #: 44

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/5/2009 12:06:27 PM

alittleevil

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebottomgirl
I have received many emails that start like this
I like a strong, independent sub, not a doormat.

many times I scratch my head in wonder, what is a doormat?

Hello,

I suspect that many of them think they are complimenting you or reassuring you and don't really have it all that well thought out.

Some, though, do. Some dominants find conquest satisfying. They want a tiger on a leash. A submissive who is submissive only to them because they are just that good. And some are signaling that they don't really want to have to take a lot of responsibility over a submissive or provide a lot of maintenance or oversight. Which does not necessarily have anything to do with whether one is "strong" v. "doormat," but that's a whole 'nother issue.

What is a doormat? Well, for starters it seems that the dichotomy of either you are "strong and independent" or "you are a doormat" is missing a lot of the in-between, but that's just me. In general, "doormat"
seems to refer to a submissive who is either a) in a relationship in which things occur that another would find unacceptable or b) a submissive who is more generally submissive. I'm not an assertive person. I am generally compliant, find comfort and satisfaction in being useful and pleasing and in the approval of others. I'm pretty malleable in my interests, tastes and even (some) beliefs and perceptions. I am this way with pretty much everybody as a default, and yes, even at my own expense at times. Does this mean i am submissive to everybody? I dunno. I don't submit to "just everybody" but it does mean that the times that i don't i am acting outside my preferred disposition and this can take effort. (Please keep in mind that in this i am talking about people i am actually face to face with--some random body ordering me about through email is not the issue, so no, i don't drop to my knees in response the second someone types "Kneel to me, slut". Heh.) I'm certainly not obedient to all and sundry--Master won't let me be ;-). Does this mean i put up with stuff from Master that another girl might tell him to go take a leap over? Probably. But that just makes us well suited to one another so it doesn't feel oppressive or bad or abusive to me, it just feels like life as it oughta be, probably much like others' lives feel to them :-).

One thing i've often been curious about, however, is the double standard for dominants and submissives in this regard. Has any submissive person ever said "I want a Dominant who is gentle, humble and servile to everybody but me and is ONLY dominant to me cause I'm so inspirational/I just draw that part of them out??" Seriously. Anyone?? This truly is not meant to deride those that have a preference for tigers on leashes, cause i get that, i really do. I'm just curious because if anything, my observation is that submissive people tend to look for those who are more generally dominant in personality and demeanor. Why do some think that okay but more general submissiveness suspect?
Peace,
aj

< Message edited by alittleevil -- 12/5/2009 12:12:32 PM >

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Post #: 45

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/5/2009 12:11:22 PM

wisdomtogive

Posts: 636
Joined: 11/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i think the terminology 'doormat' is more a mainstream derogative.

here our interpretations get muddled and contradictory because as icarys points out, and others, to be that compliant, obedient submissive is to fulfill and achieve the thing we all strive to be and/or find.

i dont believe the term has a place in this lifestyle atall.

as wisdomtogive says, to be a doormat takes huge strength and id agree with her. to give over that degree of control, compliance and trust requires an awful lot of internal strength and self awareness. therefore they are not a doormat by definition atall, which is why i cant help feeling the term just doesnt belong here.

Here! Here! Lally..Passing out egg nog and good cheer:)

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Post #: 46

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/5/2009 12:39:39 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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For myself, and ONLY for myself, I think the whole discussion of 'doormat' vs. 'not-a-doormat' is inconsequential to the discussion of authority-transfer relationships. Personally, I -like- having one or more of the exceptionally yielding servant-types about... you know the ones... the one's who yield always, because it is their nature to yield, and because, like the willow, they thrive even when the winds of power whisper through their midst. At the same time, especially when our household is larger, having servants who are able to plan, direct others, and who are responsible enough to be able to act as the Keepers' voice without losing their sense of submission to our will... priceless.

Nobody has to tell me whether xhe's a doormat or not -- sufficient time spent with hir will let me know, without question, what type of yielding personality xhe has, or whether xhe has a motivation that has nothing to do with yielding authority, in which case, xhe would be distinctly unsuited to a servant's place with us. I hold no disdain for the submissive individual who acknowledges hir preference to yield, whether it be abject prostration before the authority of another, or directed submission to another's will while maintaining the capacity to manage those whose framework of yielding is softer and more encompassing.

Why we argue about these things is beyond me. Find people with whom you mesh. If someone's attitude or demeanor disturbs you, move on to someone else -- but there is no RIGHT way or WRONG way to go about -being- what we are...we just ARE that thing that is natural to us, and will fit where such a person meshes, regardless of how many statements we make about what we are, aren't, will, or won't be.

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 12/5/2009 12:41:45 PM >

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Post #: 47

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/6/2009 3:12:33 AM

Santoro

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Joined: 9/16/2009
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I suspect I could be viewed as a doormat; I make every attempt to submerge myself in whatever state of mind my lover is in, to intuitively sense her needs at the moment and positively respond to her changing moods. I am there for her anger and her joy, I am there for her frustrations and those moments when she needs to be held or feel safe and secure. Yes I suspect I could be viewed as a doormat.

(in reply to subtlebottomgirl)

Post #: 48

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/6/2009 7:17:19 AM

RealSub58

Posts: 1073
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i think the terminology 'doormat' is more a mainstream derogative.

here our interpretations get muddled and contradictory because as icarys points out, and others, to be that compliant, obedient submissive is to fulfill and achieve the thing we all strive to be and/or find.

i dont believe the term has a place in this lifestyle atall.

as wisdomtogive says, to be a doormat takes huge strength and id agree with her. to give over that degree of control, compliance and trust requires an awful lot of internal strength and self awareness. therefore they are not a doormat by definition atall, which is why i cant help feeling the term just doesnt belong here.

A doormat is not MEEK, tis why I questioned the word meek.
Neither is a doormat weak, as written well by others here.
Generalized society tends to equate meek with weak... not so.

meek
1. Showing patience and humility; gentle.

2. Easily imposed on; submissive. weak1. Lacking physical strength, energy, or vigor; feeble.
2. Likely to fail under pressure, stress, or strain; lacking resistance3. Lacking firmness of character or strength of will.4. Lacking the proper strength or amount of ingredients5. Lacking the ability to function normally or fully6. Lacking aptitude or skill7. Lacking or resulting from a lack of intelligence.8. Lacking persuasiveness; unconvincing9. Lacking authority or the power to govern.10. Lacking potency or intensity

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 49

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/6/2009 10:44:33 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

what is a doormat?

Doormat: One who submits meekly to domination or mistreatment by others.

Not necessarily, as some ENJOY that particular type of submission.

Personally, I define it as one who submits to something they have NOT consented to from fear (of loss) or insecurity (of self).

< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 12/6/2009 10:54:30 PM >

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Post #: 50

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/7/2009 1:10:53 AM

WyldHrt

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The problem with redefining nilla words is that the connotations, positive or negative, follow along. "Doormat", when referring to a person, has a definition that is very negative. It indicates a weak willed person who lacks a sense of self and will accept being abused by anyone, no matter how miserable that abuse makes them.

quote:

I've seen a few of these as well..One for instance might be Merc's beth..I'm sure more than a few people would call her a doormat...Yet she seems to pull it off fine.

Beth will disagree with me here, but she is in no way a doormat, IMO.

_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

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Post #: 51

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/7/2009 1:19:49 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
A doormat is the first thing you see when you get home and it's always welcoming you in to the comfort of one's house.

This - I LOVE!
Warm fuzzies all round.

FR ~
People use the word doormat to be a derogatory term much in the same way as 'vanilla'.
If you don't want to be the first and the last thing Master/Mistress sees day to day - then don't be one.
For me, it rocks.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 52

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/7/2009 8:19:23 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

The problem with redefining nilla words is that the connotations, positive or negative, follow along. "Doormat", when referring to a person, has a definition that is very negative. It indicates a weak willed person who lacks a sense of self and will accept being abused by anyone, no matter how miserable that abuse makes them.

quote:

I've seen a few of these as well..One for instance might be Merc's beth..I'm sure more than a few people would call her a doormat...Yet she seems to pull it off fine.

Beth will disagree with me here, but she is in no way a doormat, IMO.

that's awful sweet of you Wyld!!! however, this slave would disagree with you because she has ALSO been guilty of fitting the negative connotation pretty accurately, in her previous life, from time to time.

spent years in a miserable abusive relationship...only managing to get out once this slave realized her ultimate destruction WAS his plan and the wee ones needed her alive a bit longer.

thing is...a doormat, like a toilet slave, is only positive in the eye's of a desirous ethical beholder...and a digusting waste of time/willing abusee for those who squick at such a thing/really intend to bury it in the yard once it has been destroyed.

Vive la difference!!!

(in reply to WyldHrt)

Post #: 53

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/7/2009 9:00:38 AM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

It all depends on what spin you decide to put on a word. I choose to see a doormat when it comes to people as a thing of beauty.

Like others have stated..It's used as a way to belittle someone..I personally think that comes from a bit of jealousy. Maybe they have reached a state of being that some may find difficulty obtaining or they feel inadequate in some way because they have yet to find a way to be comfortable with their idea of what submission is.

< Message edited by Icarys -- 12/7/2009 9:02:46 AM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 54

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/7/2009 3:12:22 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Santoro

I suspect I could be viewed as a doormat; I make every attempt to submerge myself in whatever state of mind my lover is in, to intuitively sense her needs at the moment and positively respond to her changing moods. I am there for her anger and her joy, I am there for her frustrations and those moments when she needs to be held or feel safe and secure. Yes I suspect I could be viewed as a doormat.

I don't see that as doormat. I see that as being caring and deeply devoted.

- LA

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Post #: 55

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/7/2009 9:14:21 PM

SlayerZ

Posts: 100
Joined: 3/28/2005
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Ahh, the old "Doormat Vs Not-a-doormat" debate rears its ugly head.

For me, personally, I view a "doormat" as someone that would be willing to take everything and anything that their Dom/Domme could muster, and not only take it, they would take it with a smile on their face and a song in their heart.

Personally I couldn't be doing with a submissive who was willing to submit 100%, with no flash of resistance or questioning, and someone who was willing to take anything that I thought of with both grace and humility. Not to judge anyones ideals or sensibilities but I cannot for the life of me fathom why a Dominant would be bothered with a sub/slave that lived and breathed with the "I'm a doormat, ask me how" badge pinned to her lapelle. But I guess it takes all kinds.

As for me, I would get bored with such a submissive who would cater to my every whim, who would accept all my demands with not a not a hint of resistance. I'm after a submissive with fire in her belly, someone who is moderately bratty and someone who isn't afraid to speak her mind and struggle against me. If I procured a sub who was 100% subservient then I'd get very bored very easily.

So, in closing, a "I'm submissive but not a doormat" would suggest that said person is of the more submissive persuasion, they would be willing to submit and give up ownership to their control, but at the same time they wouldn't accept every idea and wish that passed their Dom's/Dommes' kinky imagination.

The new term for 2010 will be "I may be a submissive but I'm no Doorbell!" - Watch this space..

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 56

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/8/2009 1:43:47 AM

WyldHrt

Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

that's awful sweet of you Wyld!!! however, this slave would disagree with you because she has ALSO been guilty of fitting the negative connotation pretty accurately, in her previous life, from time to time.

spent years in a miserable abusive relationship...only managing to get out once this slave realized her ultimate destruction WAS his plan and the wee ones needed her alive a bit longer.

Ok, I definitely stuck foot firmly in mouth a bit on that one

, but I lubs you and couldn't help myself, lol.

quote:

Vive la difference!!!

As always

_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 57

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/8/2009 9:58:56 AM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlayerZ

Personally I couldn't be doing with a submissive who was willing to submit 100%, with no flash of resistance or questioning, and someone who was willing to take anything that I thought of with both grace and humility.

And, from the other side, I'm not sure what the allure is to have a D/s relationships thrive on struggle. It seems to me that attaining the status of 'doormat', as an s-type, means you are at a point of complete comfort and trust with your D-type...unless you're being told to start 'fights' just to keep the fires stoked.

I tend to view things from an M/s position, rather than D/s, but an s-type arguing or disobeying my demands does not keep me in check; that just irritates me (I certainly encourage curiosity or logical discussion, but that's another issue). What does keep me in mental check is knowing that my s-type will follow whatever order I give. It places the onus on me to be as vigilant and critical of my own decisions as possible to ensure the best result because that responsibility (of us both/all) is yielded to me.

But, as I mentioned earlier, as opposed to some, I'm not the kind of person that finds his dominance validated by being able to enforce it upon the (momentary) rebellion of a sub/slave.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 12/8/2009 10:00:45 AM >

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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(in reply to SlayerZ)

Post #: 58

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/8/2009 1:35:54 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

...As for me, I would get bored with such a submissive who would cater to my every whim, who would accept all my demands with not a not a hint of resistance. I'm after a submissive with fire in her belly, someone who is moderately bratty and someone who isn't afraid to speak her mind and struggle against me.If I procured a sub who was 100% subservient then I'd get very bored very easily.

indeed. it has been this slave's experience that you are in the majority with your desires. most folks find absolute subservience a great big turn off and do not seek to engage folks of that type. some even go so far as to call those that are 100% subservient names with a derogatory intention...(like doormat or slave) thankfully, though, there are a few folks out there who appreciate it, enjoy it and find it neither boring nor filled with worry that their partner is afraid to speak their mind.

quote:

...willing to submit and give up ownership to their control, but at the same time they wouldn't accept every idea and wish that passed their Dom's/Dommes' kinky imagination...

for this slave, it's an either/or proposition. but go figure, she readily admits to being a doormat and a slave without feeling bad about it!

it isn't possible for her "to submit and give up ownership to another's control", and at the same time retain the authority to deny the one who is supposed to be "in control" any of His kinky imaginative ideas.

additionally, it doesn't sound like M/s or even D/s, to her. it just sounds like two folk negotiating their conventionally-based relationship as equal partners. this slave finds it hard to fathom why folks put all of the "submit and give up ownership to another's control" stuff on it if that's not what either person is actually doing...but like you said, it takes all kinds!!!

(in reply to SlayerZ)

Post #: 59

RE: stong, not a doormat ? - 12/8/2009 5:30:31 PM

ncbabe

Posts: 1060
Joined: 4/19/2009
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With all due respect, beth, and with no offense intended, I do not consider you to be a doormat because to me a doormat is a someone who submits because they do not feel strong enough to oppose the dominant, not because they want to and it makes them happy to do so. For me it is all about the reasons for submitting, not the actual submitting.

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Nichts ist unmöglich

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Post #: 60

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