quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
So then, an occult conspiracy it is - a trick to cripple the US... hang on, the US is already in big trouble and it wouldnt need all this to tip it over the edge; calling in some debts would do that nicely.

E

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Well - you'd first have to provide one credited climatologist who can PROVE evidence of global warming. Not theorize it, not speculate, not form an opinion based upon data supporting that position, but disposing of other data that conflicts with their position.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PenOnBeadedChain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Well - you'd first have to provide one credited climatologist who can PROVE evidence of global warming. Not theorize it, not speculate, not form an opinion based upon data supporting that position, but disposing of other data that conflicts with their position.

See, as someone who has participated (and published) in peer-reviewed science and knows people in the climatology field, this is what I find so disheartening about the low level of understanding Americans have about what science even is. Mercnbeth, no one has ever "proven" the theory of gravity. It could turn out that planets and other heavenly bodies just suck, as some sort of compulsive habit (there's one people can have fun with here). Most philosphers will tell you, and rightly so, that no objective reality can be definitively established. The best we can do - and what scientists do every day - is develop theories, test them, generate evidence for or against those theories with every form of sensing and reasoning we possess as humans, and develop competing ones and test them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: PenOnBeadedChain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Well - you'd first have to provide one credited climatologist who can PROVE evidence of global warming. Not theorize it, not speculate, not form an opinion based upon data supporting that position, but disposing of other data that conflicts with their position.

See, as someone who has participated (and published) in peer-reviewed science and knows people in the climatology field, this is what I find so disheartening about the low level of understanding Americans have about what science even is. Mercnbeth, no one has ever "proven" the theory of gravity. It could turn out that planets and other heavenly bodies just suck, as some sort of compulsive habit (there's one people can have fun with here). Most philosphers will tell you, and rightly so, that no objective reality can be definitively established. The best we can do - and what scientists do every day - is develop theories, test them, generate evidence for or against those theories with every form of sensing and reasoning we possess as humans, and develop competing ones and test them.

Aha! Caught you out! You admitted its not proven and cant be proven! na-na-ner- ner - ner! etc ad nauseam
E

quote:

Its all very reminiscent of those folk in South America who live on the side of volcanoes. The scientists move in and tell them, "its going to erupt soon and you must evacuate". The residents reply "not at all! It has erupted many times before and we are still here", with the added perplexity of the residents having no idea what seismology and volcano prediction is about yet prepared to risk all on their ignorance, so that they might continue their lives unhindered, and only confirmed in that ignorance when one of the scientists is found not to have a PhD and this is held to discredit the entire project

quote:

The pro-side have to do what they can to set policy Mercnbeth, pending absolute disproof of their ideas, because if theyre right then we will have saved ourselves a whole lot of trouble and if theyre wrong then we will have gained a lot of fortunate spin offs, and I fancy, at no economic loss (rather a gain) in the short to medium term let alone the long term.

If we follow the anti-side then if we're right then all well and good, but if we're wrong then we are more xxxxed than we ever want to be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
In my opinion, this notion of wealth as a zero sum game is crap. The proposition that any gain by one must necessarily represent a loss to another has fueled all manner of intolerably airheaded denials of responsibility and ugly scapegoating, without having the slightest connection to reality. Wealth and economic vitality are not fixed quantities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PenOnBeadedChain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Well - you'd first have to provide one credited climatologist who can PROVE evidence of global warming. Not theorize it, not speculate, not form an opinion based upon data supporting that position, but disposing of other data that conflicts with their position.

See, as someone who has participated (and published) in peer-reviewed science and knows people in the climatology field, this is what I find so disheartening about the low level of understanding Americans have about what science even is. Mercnbeth, no one has ever "proven" the theory of gravity. It could turn out that planets and other heavenly bodies just suck, as some sort of compulsive habit (there's one people can have fun with here). Most philosphers will tell you, and rightly so, that no objective reality can be definitively established. The best we can do - and what scientists do every day - is develop theories, test them, generate evidence for or against those theories with every form of sensing and reasoning we possess as humans, and develop competing ones and test them.

This is what climate scientists have been doing for several decades now. The competing theories (solar forcing, random natural variation, interglacial cycle etc.), simply can't explain the sharp, quick increases we've seen as unprecedented (in human time) GHGs have built up in our atmosphere. This is why 97% of currently practicing climate scientists - and every major national and international science body - have concluded that humankind is driving this.

Every one of the red herrings you folks regularly bring up - suddenly excited like little children who've learned a new thing - have been looked at long ago, and are a continuing part of the complex picture the climatology community takes into account in their work. Just because YOU (speaking generally now) got interested in this just last week or last year when your favorite talk radio host got worked up about it, doesn't mean the scientific community doesn't take it into account as a matter of routine course in their models, discussions, and publications.

It's getting silly and tiresome. Greenhouse gases have residence times of many decades. Waiting till the world is in total, undeniable and irrevocable chaos will be too late to head off a lot more pain later.

This is one reason, by the way, that the Pentagon - yes, those ACORN-loving commie-pinko America-hating crusty generals in the DoD - are all over this as a national security issue. Yes, it's true. They're also in on Obama's nefarious plot to steal your money and give it to America-mocking Frenchmen to spend while drinking wine and laughing at you. They have been an integral part of The Big Plot since the Bush Administration, by the way:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1730759_1731383_1731632,00.html

So this is the bad news. You're surrounded. 97% of the climatology community, the major scientific organizations, that evil mainstream media, the military, even the damned insurance industry (who knows they stand to get soaked from all of this).

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2008/03/12/88138.htm

It's just you, Glenn Beck, and the oil industry left. The last valiant "patriot holdouts". Don't think Big Oil doesn't appreciate your pro-bono work on their behalf, though. Oh, they won't share in the millions extra in profits they pull in with each month we hold off on action - they're not that appreciative. But they do applaud the tireless, devoted work you are doing to contribute to the delay in making changes.

You're kids won't though (if you have them).

quote:

ORIGINAL: PenOnBeadedChain
See, as someone who has participated (and published) in peer-reviewed science and knows people in the climatology field, this is what I find so disheartening about the low level of understanding Americans have about what science even is. Mercnbeth, no one has ever "proven" the theory of gravity. It could turn out that planets and other heavenly bodies just suck, as some sort of compulsive habit (there's one people can have fun with here). Most philosphers will tell you, and rightly so, that no objective reality can be definitively established. The best we can do - and what scientists do every day - is develop theories, test them, generate evidence for or against those theories with every form of sensing and reasoning we possess as humans, and develop competing ones and test them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

In this case most of the money leads back to oil companies who are bankrolling naysayers. But apparently that argument means you've been brainwashed by Al Gore.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PenOnBeadedChain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Well - you'd first have to provide one credited climatologist who can PROVE evidence of global warming. Not theorize it, not speculate, not form an opinion based upon data supporting that position, but disposing of other data that conflicts with their position.

See, as someone who has participated (and published) in peer-reviewed science and knows people in the climatology field, this is what I find so disheartening about the low level of understanding Americans have about what science even is. Mercnbeth, no one has ever "proven" the theory of gravity. It could turn out that planets and other heavenly bodies just suck, as some sort of compulsive habit (there's one people can have fun with here). Most philosphers will tell you, and rightly so, that no objective reality can be definitively established. The best we can do - and what scientists do every day - is develop theories, test them, generate evidence for or against those theories with every form of sensing and reasoning we possess as humans, and develop competing ones and test them.

This is what climate scientists have been doing for several decades now. The competing theories (solar forcing, random natural variation, interglacial cycle etc.), simply can't explain the sharp, quick increases we've seen as unprecedented (in human time) GHGs have built up in our atmosphere. This is why 97% of currently practicing climate scientists - and every major national and international science body - have concluded that humankind is driving this.

Every one of the red herrings you folks regularly bring up - suddenly excited like little children who've learned a new thing - have been looked at long ago, and are a continuing part of the complex picture the climatology community takes into account in their work. Just because YOU (speaking generally now) got interested in this just last week or last year when your favorite talk radio host got worked up about it, doesn't mean the scientific community doesn't take it into account as a matter of routine course in their models, discussions, and publications.

It's getting silly and tiresome. Greenhouse gases have residence times of many decades. Waiting till the world is in total, undeniable and irrevocable chaos will be too late to head off a lot more pain later.

This is one reason, by the way, that the Pentagon - yes, those ACORN-loving commie-pinko America-hating crusty generals in the DoD - are all over this as a national security issue. Yes, it's true. They're also in on Obama's nefarious plot to steal your money and give it to America-mocking Frenchmen to spend while drinking wine and laughing at you. They have been an integral part of The Big Plot since the Bush Administration, by the way:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1730759_1731383_1731632,00.html

So this is the bad news. You're surrounded. 97% of the climatology community, the major scientific organizations, that evil mainstream media, the military, even the damned insurance industry (who knows they stand to get soaked from all of this).

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2008/03/12/88138.htm

It's just you, Glenn Beck, and the oil industry left. The last valiant "patriot holdouts". Don't think Big Oil doesn't appreciate your pro-bono work on their behalf, though. Oh, they won't share in the millions extra in profits they pull in with each month we hold off on action - they're not that appreciative. But they do applaud the tireless, devoted work you are doing to contribute to the delay in making changes.

You're kids won't though (if you have them).

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: PenOnBeadedChain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Well - you'd first have to provide one credited climatologist who can PROVE evidence of global warming. Not theorize it, not speculate, not form an opinion based upon data supporting that position, but disposing of other data that conflicts with their position.

See, as someone who has participated (and published) in peer-reviewed science and knows people in the climatology field, this is what I find so disheartening about the low level of understanding Americans have about what science even is. Mercnbeth, no one has ever "proven" the theory of gravity. It could turn out that planets and other heavenly bodies just suck, as some sort of compulsive habit (there's one people can have fun with here). Most philosphers will tell you, and rightly so, that no objective reality can be definitively established. The best we can do - and what scientists do every day - is develop theories, test them, generate evidence for or against those theories with every form of sensing and reasoning we possess as humans, and develop competing ones and test them.

This is what climate scientists have been doing for several decades now. The competing theories (solar forcing, random natural variation, interglacial cycle etc.), simply can't explain the sharp, quick increases we've seen as unprecedented (in human time) GHGs have built up in our atmosphere. This is why 97% of currently practicing climate scientists - and every major national and international science body - have concluded that humankind is driving this.

Every one of the red herrings you folks regularly bring up - suddenly excited like little children who've learned a new thing - have been looked at long ago, and are a continuing part of the complex picture the climatology community takes into account in their work. Just because YOU (speaking generally now) got interested in this just last week or last year when your favorite talk radio host got worked up about it, doesn't mean the scientific community doesn't take it into account as a matter of routine course in their models, discussions, and publications.

It's getting silly and tiresome. Greenhouse gases have residence times of many decades. Waiting till the world is in total, undeniable and irrevocable chaos will be too late to head off a lot more pain later.

This is one reason, by the way, that the Pentagon - yes, those ACORN-loving commie-pinko America-hating crusty generals in the DoD - are all over this as a national security issue. Yes, it's true. They're also in on Obama's nefarious plot to steal your money and give it to America-mocking Frenchmen to spend while drinking wine and laughing at you. They have been an integral part of The Big Plot since the Bush Administration, by the way:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1730759_1731383_1731632,00.html

So this is the bad news. You're surrounded. 97% of the climatology community, the major scientific organizations, that evil mainstream media, the military, even the damned insurance industry (who knows they stand to get soaked from all of this).

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2008/03/12/88138.htm

It's just you, Glenn Beck, and the oil industry left. The last valiant "patriot holdouts". Don't think Big Oil doesn't appreciate your pro-bono work on their behalf, though. Oh, they won't share in the millions extra in profits they pull in with each month we hold off on action - they're not that appreciative. But they do applaud the tireless, devoted work you are doing to contribute to the delay in making changes.

You're kids won't though (if you have them).

What a bunch of hot air.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The pro-side have to do what they can to set policy Mercnbeth, pending absolute disproof of their ideas, because if theyre right then we will have saved ourselves a whole lot of trouble and if theyre wrong then we will have gained a lot of fortunate spin offs, and I fancy, at no economic loss (rather a gain) in the short to medium term let alone the long term.

If we follow the anti-side then if we're right then all well and good, but if we're wrong then we are more xxxxed than we ever want to be.

Now, over to the "video extinction" thread to undermine my clovis extinction post if you will (its a gaping open goal)

E