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RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 10:18:30 AM   
TeeGO


Posts: 451
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress


I've been attending munches now for about 18 months. The first munch I attended was a FemDom oriented one. It had two male subs who showed up regularly. The rest came and went, with few of them being repeat visitors. The current munch I attend has one regular male sub attendee- and he is collared/married to me. We've had a few other male subs show up once or twice, but not return. (We are a very friendly munch group and everyone is talked to and made to feel welcome, so that is not the reason.) We have female subs galore. We have a healthy number of Dom and Domme and a couple of Switches. Why is there this lack of male subs? Is this true at other munches? Do male subs not have the desire to know others in the lifestyle as just friends? Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others? What causes this? What's your opinion?



I may regret opening my mouth here (so to speak) but I will attempt to give you some straightforward thoughts I have on this matter. I can only speak for myself obviously, but to answer your questions:

Do male subs not have the desire to know others in the lifestyle as just friends?
I have a great desire to make friends in the lifestyle, what could be better than having people that truly understand you.

Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others?
I am very serious about BDSM, the energy exchange within a relationship, the desire to serve, the fulfillment of a need within a relationship that is far deeper than marriage. It's who I am, so yes I'm serious.

What causes this? What's your opinion? (Not attending munches.)
Well, I would say it's the reputation that munches have that keeps me away. The things I hear here are munches are cliquish, political, and snobbish. That male subs are disrespected by make Doms and even more so by female subs. That the prevailing idea is that Male Dom/ female sub is the true way of BDSM. Is all this true about munches? Probably not, however, some of the comments I've read in here support this. There was a local munch group that had a yahoo discussion group. I checked that place out, trying to get a feel for it. The group “think” was very strongly M/f with no room for F/m. One female sub made a comment about M/f as the only true way in life and I challenged her on this, respectfully. Immediately others jumped on my comments as attacking her. I did not attack her, only her view. As a matter of fact we had a good discussion, she even backed up a bit trying to show her respect for others and their kinks. She had no problem with my alleged attack. My point is even though we came to an understanding, I had no desire to meet that group. I live near Chicago and I know of several munches. I may try on out at some time. But just the idea that I would get my hackles up going to one even before going. Thinking about the potential disrespect has me thinking why subject myself to this. Even worse, I am a kindhearted, easy going, respectful cheerful person by nature, but when I’m disrespected I can become belligerent, I can also be that way when another innocent person is disrespected. I absolutely loathe disrespectful people. The last thing I want to do is go someplace where I will be riled up to a belligerent combative state. I could just see myself thrown out for fighting or something. This is not my experience I’m talking about, just my perception of what could happen based on the things of heard about munches. It’s hardly something enticing, so I just avoid.

A Femdom munch would be different, but the closest one I've heard of is better than 2 1/2 hours away in Indianapolis.


(in reply to BeachMystress)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 10:28:51 AM   
MichMasochist


Posts: 234
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline 		Amen to that Bro.

Come to think of it as I recall. Even the female doms appeared to be quite submissive to the male doms. But maybe they were really subs????


Mich



quote:

ORIGINAL: artglfr

Male subs that I talk to don't enjoy munches . Male Doms seem to be in the Power positions and a male sub that is seeking a Fem Domme is ignored or often made to feel like they are good for setting up and breaking down equipment, paying for stuff and then can get out of the way so the "Men" who have been hanging around being "Domly" in their circle "supervising" the work but not helping, can play. Poly relationships are another and many males are wanting to serve a Mistress NOT a Mistress and a Husband and a boyfriend or two or three and a girlfriend etc. It will be very unpopular to mention and unpolitically correct but also male subs appear to rank very very low on the totem pole...Female subs, Female switches, Female lesbian subs and switches, gay male subs and switches appear to rank much higher and are more in demand. Hetero male subs are treated almost as "Vanilla" as in not really being in the Lifestyle but only looking for a quick thrill and sex and this is so NOT true .



< Message edited by MichMasochist -- 3/16/2006 10:57:32 AM >

(in reply to artglfr)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 10:54:06 AM   
MichMasochist


Posts: 234
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline 		A femdom munch, as in no male doms, now that is interesting. From my "limited" experience; (MsSonnetMarwood); my visions of attending kinksters, would be high male sub to low female dom ratios. Or only pro doms. I might even go just to see if what the ratio is.

(in reply to TeeGO)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 11:27:01 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO

A Femdom munch would be different, but the closest one I've heard of is better than 2 1/2 hours away in Indianapolis.[/color]




Start one. I've started a few munches and it's all not the hard. I usually pick a corner of a mall food court, let people know, put a black rose on the table and wait for them to gather.

Of course, I'm sure you know that in a few months you'll be getting complaints that your munch is "cliquish, political, and snobbish."

Learn to live with it.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to TeeGO)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 11:50:29 AM   
justatoy2


Posts: 163
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		a munch/slosh whatever you want to call it is a gathering of people. There will be good people and not so good people. Its a shame more male subs don't come out more. I do go to a slosh on a regular basis. My experience has been that the male submissives are very very very quiet. Im an outgoing person, and its hard to start a conversation with someone when i get one or two word replies when talking to someone. I adore having male submissives as friends. And seeing how my husband is a male submissive himself...it would be wonderful to have him have other people to talk with. Teego since i am aslo in the chicago area i sent you a message and if you would like more information about the slosh i attend please write back.

(in reply to TeeGO)
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RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 12:10:05 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		yes, however when you tell someone to come because you'd like to meet them , and then not say word one to them because you're with your click. That's rude.


Not every one has to be invited, I'm talking about in room dureing the munch, some people, hell most people in the case of one group however not the one I went to tuesday , are extreamly unwelcoming to newcomers, and like only one or two of them will take the time to speak to any one not a friend already. Infact a lot of times the rules of the group aren't even made known, like do not name names of people at events, and then someone new mistakenly calls out on group like did happen to a poor new sub guy hey anna banna* a fictious name for this point* It was good to meet you last night. Thanks


And then 5 people jump on said new person who didn't know better, and chastise them about confidentiality rules.




quote:

ORIGINAL: MysticalPhoenix


quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion
Plus I find munches*very* clicky a lot of people know one another from before and very quickly pair off.


We've been having some issues at our local munch with the "clickyness" factor. We've got a number of poly people, and they tend to travel in packs with their partners, their subs, etc. And, they tend to do things within their poly group that they don't do with the rest of the munch bunch. So, we get whining about clicques.

It's silly and childish to start pointing fingers and talking about "clicks". Although it's nice that everyone mix and mingle at the munches, there is no rule, anywhere, that says if one person, or a group of people, host a party of any type or go somewhere, that they have to invite everyone on the munch mailing list. This is not elementary school, we are allowed to choose our friends and associates.

We don't see many unattached male subs at our munches. So much so, that when I brought my newly collared boy to one of the munches while he was visiting, one of the FemDoms swooped in and asked him directly about his 'orientation' within minutes of our arrival. I just smiled at her, hooked my finger under his collar and said, "he's mine."

There are a number of female and male dominants looking-if anyone who happens to be the Kalamazoo area is reading this-male subs are always welcome.

Phoenix

quote:

usually in the low single digits, even at a munch of fifty-plus. As an aside, I can be almost totally certain there won't be great number of fellow (sister?) CDs there either.

(in reply to MysticalPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 1:23:16 PM   
justatoy2


Posts: 163
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		i can only go by my own experiences. I have only begun going to the local munch/slosh since November. I found most of the group to be extremely welcoming. Sure for the first 20 minutes i felt a bit uneasy, but i also don't expect people to just come and talk to me. I had to go in there and make my self known. The group was so welcoming that i ended up staying until past midnight...well after the slosh was officially over at 10:30 or so. The next week i went again and the new people i had just met invited me to visit a local club with them (gulp). Yes i went and ended up having a wonderful time. I now warn any new person i bring to the slosh that i won't spend the entire night glued to their side. I will be glad to introduce them to people but they have to do their part too and partake in the conversation. I try to get them involved as much as possible, but you can't hold a knife to someone and make them talk..oh wait maybe you can...lol. Just a note to share with you all...this group of people that i have known only a short time recently threw me a lil birthday party. They hardly know me, but had heard my birthday was comming and brought me kinky gifts and made me feel like a princess at a recent slosh. So my experinces with it so far have been very positive. They all know i have a Dom and a husband, both of which were there at the slosh, and so its not like they are being nice to me just so someone can hook up. they just are a great group of people.

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 4:16:03 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		And that just covers the complaints from people who know how to spell!

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Of course, I'm sure you know that in a few months you'll be getting complaints that your munch is "cliquish, political, and snobbish."


(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 5:58:58 PM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO
Well, I would say it's the reputation that munches have that keeps me away. The things I hear here are munches are cliquish, political, and snobbish. That male subs are disrespected by make Doms and even more so by female subs.


I guess I have been lucky with the munch groups I have attended. I wouldn't say they are any more cliquish than any small group - there is an initial level of friendship, but it takes time for real trust to develop.

I was warned about male doms being disrespectful, but I really wouldn't say its been my experience. Although I have occasionally encountered some of that weird vibe (possibly homosexual anxiety) that others have mentioned. On the other hand, the female subs have been terrific! We share a common point of view and common experiences, and there is no heterosexual anxiety because we know that we aren't looking to one another for a relationship.

But that is just my experience and it may be different in your neck of the woods.

Edit:
quote:

A Femdom munch would be different, but the closest one I've heard of is better than 2 1/2 hours away in Indianapolis.

TeeGO, there is a ClubFEM slosh in Chicago this Saturday - you might want to look into it.
http://www.collarchat.com/Chicago_ClubFEM_slosh%21/m_294796/tm.htm

< Message edited by onceburned -- 3/16/2006 6:43:02 PM >

(in reply to TeeGO)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 7:54:25 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		I stopped attending Munches when I was informed by a few male Dom's that they didn't believe in male sub's. I had particular trouble with the so called Gorean "Master" and his wife, that argument almost led me to invite him outside.

I was treated great by the Hostess, until she found out I was a sub, and not a new Dom of the week.

I believe like most others here that Munches are cliquish, and male subs are frowned upon. I also heard that the Femdom Munch in Indianapolis was mostly Pro Domme's looking for new clients, but I don't know for sure, and haven't had time to attend and find out for myself.

(in reply to onceburned)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 10:17:10 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		I have seen and heard that Doms treat male subs pretty bad---this is not an across the board statement, but I see it more often than not--

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


(in reply to BeachMystress)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 10:33:22 PM   
TeeGO


Posts: 451
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Of course, I'm sure you know that in a few months you'll be getting complaints that your munch is "cliquish, political, and snobbish."

Learn to live with it.


Your point is very well taken. One should not judge the majority based on a minority. It's for that reason I was somewhat reluctant to make my post. But as wrong as it may be, it's how I feel so I threw it out there.

I know a few male Doms. They are great guys and I have nothing but respect for them. I'm sure it's a small percentage of insecure Doms that need to belittle others to make themselves seem dominant. But it's back to my point that the reputations of the munches is why I think the male subs stay away. At least that has been the reason I have stayed away thus far. Of course I've only been out of the closet and "in the lifestyle" for about 8 months. (Lived with/controlled by the kink for over 30.)

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/16/2006 10:38:48 PM   
TeeGO


Posts: 451
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned

TeeGO, there is a ClubFEM slosh in Chicago this Saturday - you might want to look into it.
http://www.collarchat.com/Chicago_ClubFEM_slosh%21/m_294796/tm.htm


Thanks, I will check that out.

(in reply to onceburned)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/17/2006 5:11:52 AM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		You guys are looking into this too much perhaps? Maybe you attitude should be "I should go and meet this GROUP and see how they treat ME" Maybe if you are a good person, who can carry a conversation people will like you for you and not your orientation? After all it is a social group?
Perhaps Im wrong perhaps Im right.

(in reply to TeeGO)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/17/2006 6:07:38 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I stopped attending Munches when I was informed by a few male Dom's that they didn't believe in male sub's. I had particular trouble with the so called Gorean "Master" and his wife, that argument almost led me to invite him outside.

I was treated great by the Hostess, until she found out I was a sub, and not a new Dom of the week.

I believe like most others here that Munches are cliquish, and male subs are frowned upon. I also heard that the Femdom Munch in Indianapolis was mostly Pro Domme's looking for new clients, but I don't know for sure, and haven't had time to attend and find out for myself.


That's a horrible experience to have had.

I wish the Headspace munches of the past were still around. We tended to have poly and switch people most often and then female doms (maybe because I was hostess for a while). But we also tended to be younger (20s to 30s range of ages) because of the time to the university by the group. Finding "private" space was also very difficult (if you wanted price, food variety, and age range) so it was very much just a munch, not playing.

I went to the Indy munch years ago -- too big for my tastes -- and yes, the couples did tend to be 40+ in age and male dominant in nature but I had friends who went regularly and they were a femdom younger couple who was poly. Then there were some issues about being too public and then went to a "private list" and at that point I stopped being interested. I'd say though that you should try again and if you are treated the same way, try to find the Slosh if you 21+ in age.

Never been to the "femdom" munch but given the ads I've seen for it, I'd suspect you were correct. But would it harm you to try it once?

Since I'm assuming you are in Indiana I'd get on the IndianaBDSM yahoogroup and see the regularly posted munches and other events. For a hardcore "redstate" it has a good number of events. If you have time and money for gas you could try out several things and see if you can find a good fit.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/17/2006 7:17:10 AM   
tabooless


Posts: 10
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline 		Agreed. I’ve never been to a munch myself, just because of a lack of interest on my part not because I’m worried about how others will treat me, but I assume that it’s no different than any other kind of social gathering. If this was a book club and we had gatherings, no one would immediately disrespect someone else without even knowing them first. And if they did, the appropriate um… actions should be taken to remedy the situation. I maybe a sub to the right woman but I’m far from submissive with anyone else and anyone disrespecting me will get my submissive foot on their dominant ass. If I understand correctly, munches are for meeting people not BDSM role playing so everyone is as important to the meeting as anyone else. I may not be interested in actively playing with a male Dom for instance but I may enjoy chatting with him about some interesting experiences we’ve each had. If I have an interesting session with a female Domme and I tell him about it, he may get some ideas from it that he can use with his subs. Everyone has value and can bring something interesting to the group.

(in reply to Moloch)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/17/2006 7:56:24 AM   
LadyKim


Posts: 191
Joined: 11/11/2004
Status: offline 		From my experience with male submissives, it is because the munches are purely social without play. Male subs want to feel the physical dominance of a Mistress, and 'talking about it' just isn't high on their list of priorities. Men in general would rather do than talk, so they are more apt to go to a bdsm club than a munch at a vanilla restaurant.


Regarding the conversation on munches being clickish...... Yeah, they generally are because these people have known each other for a while and attended the same events which makes them comfortable with each other. The way to get into that 'click' is to be have a pleasant, interesting, jovial personality with something to say, and continue to attend. It is the same whenever you join any group that is already in existance. You have to give them a chance to get to know you, so they can decide if you are the type of person they want to associate with. We all know there are a bunch of fakes and frauds out there, and far too many people that look at bdsm as kinky sex or easy sex. When something matters to you, you tend to safeguard it and use sound judgement before trusting it with someone else. So, it is only natural for people involved in an alternative lifestyle gathering to be a bit leery of the new people coming in, and expect them to show they have more than just an instant gratification intrest in the lifestyle. Should the people at the event be friendly towards new people and try to get them involved? Yes. However, the entire event cannot evolve around one or two new people joining in the group. The new person coming in has a responsibility to take initiative also.

The only munch I really attend is the Atlanta Regional Munch held the first Saturday of the month at one of our local bdsm clubs. (Though, I don't go to that one with any degree of regularity.) Atlanta has various munch groups from all over the city and surrounding counties that meet independantly throughout the month, then they all get together once a month at the Regional munch. The majority of the reason I don't go to the county specific munches in my area is because they are held on a week night when I have a pre-existing commitment to something that is important to me.

< Message edited by LadyKim -- 3/17/2006 8:10:49 AM >

(in reply to BeachMystress)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/17/2006 8:02:31 AM   
TeeGO


Posts: 451
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyKim

From my experience with male submissives, it is because the munches are purely social without play. Male subs want to feel the physical dominance of a Mistress, and 'talking about it' just isn't high on their list of priorities. Men in general would rather do than talk, so they are more apt to go to a bdsm club than a munch at a vanilla restaurant.


That may be true with some, perhaps even most, I have no idea, but certainly not all.

(in reply to LadyKim)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/17/2006 8:02:32 AM   
MysticalPhoenix


Posts: 212
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Kelloggsville, Vanilla County MI
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyKim

From my experience with male submissives, it is because the munches are purely social without play. Male subs want to feel the physical dominance of a Mistress, and 'talking about it' just isn't high on their list of priorities. Men in general would rather do than talk, so they are more apt to go to a bdsm club than a munch at a vanilla restaurant.



Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. They don't want to meet a Mistress in a non-play social setting, they just want to play, they just want to play...

Yeah, right, guys.

Phoenix



_____________________________

---------------------------------------------------------
Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are.

(in reply to LadyKim)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? - 3/17/2006 8:26:48 AM   
TeeGO


Posts: 451
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tabooless

um… actions should be taken to remedy the situation. I maybe a sub to the right woman but I’m far from submissive with anyone else and anyone disrespecting me will get my submissive foot on their dominant ass.


I agree with this as I can I get very angry and very quickly when disrespected. Now if I was just interested in getting in a fight, maybe I would go. But that is not what these groups are for and somehow I don't think that would be appreciated by the rest of the group, or the community as a whole.

Although the truth is people rarely disrespect me to my face. Maybe confrontation is the answer to changing this perception. Maybe it's time for change, time to rise up and demand respect, time for a BDSM civil war! It’s been said that male subs are the most numerous. Think of the power, think of the glory, victory is all but assured.

But only if the Domme’s will let us. Ma’am’s can we do this? Can we please? Oh please, please, please, please. Can we? Can we huh?




(in reply to tabooless)
Profile   Post #: 60
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