Why don't male subs go to munches? (Full Version)

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BeachMystress -> Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 3:18:33 AM)


I've been attending munches now for about 18 months. The first munch I attended was a FemDom oriented one. It had two male subs who showed up regularly.The rest came and went, with few of them being repeat visitors. The current munch I attend has one regular male sub attendee- and he is collared/married to me. We've had a few other male subs show up once or twice, but not return. (We are a very friendly munch group and everyone is talked to and made to feel welcome, so that is not the reason.) We have female subs galore. We have a healthy number of Dom and Domme and a couple of Switches. Why is there this lack of male subs? Is this true at other munches? Do male subs not have the desire to know others in the lifestyle as just friends? Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others? What causes this? What's your opinion?



DragonNphoenix -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 3:53:38 AM)

I wish that I had more experience in this area to give you advise or just to tell you i know what you mean. We have not been to any munches.

1st girl phoenix



MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 3:59:26 AM)

quote:

I've been attending munches now for about 18 months. The first munch I attended was a FemDom oriented one. It had two male subs who showed up regularly.The rest came and went, with few of them being repeat visitors. The current munch I attend has one regular male sub attendee- and he is collared/married to me. We've had a few other male subs show up once or twice, but not return. (We are a very friendly munch group and everyone is talked to and made to feel welcome, so that is not the reason.) We have female subs galore. We have a healthy number of Dom and Domme and a couple of Switches. Why is there this lack of male subs? Is this true at other munches? Do male subs not have the desire to know others in the lifestyle as just friends? Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others? What causes this? What's your opinion?


It's not an unusual phenomenon. What I have primarily heard from the male subs I've spoken to on why they don't go to munches is that they would be happy to go WITH someone, but too shy to go by themselves. It's a cyclical argument, because going to a couple munches would increase their chances of finding someone to go with them to in the future.

The interesting thing is that although single male subs tend not to turn out at munches in any great number, I always end up meeting the subs I'm with for any significant period of time at such events (munches, parties, kinky book readings, etc) rather than online or the like. Something to think about.

I go to a femdom oritented munch myself, and there's usually a decent showing of male subs that go, if usually the same faces.



RavenMuse -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 4:39:11 AM)

I've not started getting into the local scene here yet but what I've seen in the past is a predominance of Male Dom/Fem sub and far too many of the Male Doms being the knuckle dragging macho posturing idiot types who tend to have bad attitudes toward male subs. Maybe one reason for male subs not quite being as confident in attending the scene... they may not feel particularly welcome.

Having said that, those I've seen in the past have been rather small. No I'm in London which has a Large.. no, huge! Scene I may find things are rather diffrent. Personaly the only time someones orientation matters much to me when I'm socialising is if I'm involved with them.... otherwise so long as they are good company I couldn't care less if they are Dom, sub, TV, whatever!



fldrkhorse -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 5:22:36 AM)

There could be several reasons.

1. It's awkward when you don't know anyone. Yes, the only way to meet people is to meet people, but it's still awkward.

2. Male subs are universally shy which adds to the uncomfortableness.

3. It takes quite some time for a male come to grips with his sub nature and it's still unmanly by society. It's not that he would expect to be humiliated at a munch, but it's still quite a leap to expose this nature publically. I had suggested to another group that they focus more on the message boards and chats until the males become more comfortable and also have an oportunity to make friends. This process could help break down barriers.



LadyShoshin -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 5:31:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress


I've been attending munches now for about 18 months. The first munch I attended was a FemDom oriented one. It had two male subs who showed up regularly.The rest came and went, with few of them being repeat visitors. The current munch I attend has one regular male sub attendee- and he is collared/married to me. We've had a few other male subs show up once or twice, but not return. (We are a very friendly munch group and everyone is talked to and made to feel welcome, so that is not the reason.) We have female subs galore. We have a healthy number of Dom and Domme and a couple of Switches. Why is there this lack of male subs? Is this true at other munches? Do male subs not have the desire to know others in the lifestyle as just friends? Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others? What causes this? What's your opinion?


I am in SW Ontario, Canada, when I first came into the lifestyle about 6 years ago, the situation was very similar. However, 2 male submissives and a FemDomme started a munch just for FemDommes and male subs so the subs could speak freely and meet other male subs. From there, more FemDommes and male subs began going to parties, there were even FemDom parties where male subs could feel welcome and not have to sit and watch Male Dom fem sub couples fill the event.

I run two munches and my information is in the web page for people to contact me if they have questions, I often have shy newbies contact me. Sometimes just getting to know me first helps. I offer to meet them ahead of time so they have someone to walk in with.

It takes great courage to walk into a room full of people you have never met, not knowing what to expect.

It is not that male subs in general are any less serious than fem subs or Dom/mes, we forget that admitting you are a submissive male flies in the face of convention and operant training. The unaware person hears submissive male and immediately judges him as less than a man. In our society men are generally socialized into the macho image, placed under the expectation of being in control, expected to be responsible for those under their care. Acknowledging one's submissiveness (even if only in the limited arena of BDSM) means challenging the stereotypes.

The male subs I know are very manly, very much male, they tend to be intelligent, creative, empathic, caring, strong mentally and emotionally and, depending on the person, physically. They are consumate gentlemen, there are a few I count as treasured friends and one I think of as a brother.

My best training has come from experienced male sub friends.

Meaning no offense, it might be best not to speculate why there are so few male subs at events, it might be better to ask them. Yes, I agree some will come to events and discover reality rather than the fantasy they had built up in their minds, but that can be said of fem subs and Dom/mes as well. Some people, no matter what their orientation, prefer fantasy to reality.



MstrssPassion -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 5:33:18 AM)

Shyness?
Could be.

They would rather attend with a person or group they are familiar with?
Could be.

Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others?
Many will agree with this & follow up this proposal stating that many men are only in this for kinky sex.

Myself & a few others have attempted to form groups both online as well as in a real time setting, thinking that this would give male subs a comfortable venue for discussion & support. All attempts failed. Sure there were a choice few who were sincerely grateful for such a place & utilized it in the manner it was intended... far more only checked it out thinking they were going to find female dominants offering training.

I would not say that male subs do not possess the level of intensity or desire to truly explore submission... but I would say that the numbers of males just looking for hook-ups & kinky encounters far outweigh those seeking genuine submission.



BeeQueen -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 7:56:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin


The male subs I know are very manly, very much male, they tend to be intelligent, creative, empathic, caring, strong mentally and emotionally and, depending on the person, physically. They are consumate gentlemen, there are a few I count as treasured friends and one I think of as a brother.

My best training has come from experienced male sub friends.

Meaning no offense, it might be best not to speculate why there are so few male subs at events, it might be better to ask them. Yes, I agree some will come to events and discover reality rather than the fantasy they had built up in their minds, but that can be said of fem subs and Dom/mes as well. Some people, no matter what their orientation, prefer fantasy to reality.



agree the speculate about the reason might bee countless. generally i found 2 kind of submales. those that enjoy the talks at the munch and are interessted in theoretic discurs. and those that have build up a fantasie in their mind and now want to go to a munch couse they want a domme now. the 2nd kind tends to not come back after they failed one or tow times in approaching a domme.
i often thought that it is a pitty that they only show up once and than never again. talking to others helps finding ur own way often, and to know ur not the only one with *this* kind of thoughts .
munch always is kinda more fun with more diversity ...free after the quote * the more the merrier*
Bee



GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 8:20:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others?
Many will agree with this & follow up this proposal stating that many men are only in this for kinky sex.

Myself & a few others have attempted to form groups both online as well as in a real time setting, thinking that this would give male subs a comfortable venue for discussion & support. All attempts failed. Sure there were a choice few who were sincerely grateful for such a place & utilized it in the manner it was intended... far more only checked it out thinking they were going to find female dominants offering training.

I would not say that male subs do not possess the level of intensity or desire to truly explore submission... but I would say that the numbers of males just looking for hook-ups & kinky encounters far outweigh those seeking genuine submission.


There ya go! I feel this may be the most true thing I have read thus far.
We read about stand ups for private local meetings, too often. If they are writing and can't even get to a coffee shop for a piece of pie and some one on one conversation, I shouldn't be surprised that they will never venture into a munch.
I smiled when I read a post by a submissive on one of the recent discussion threads. He was following up with a response to the oft repeated complaint of how hard it is to find a Domina because of that very tired 100:1 statistic. This boy had been to a couple of munches in which 4 Dominas were in attendance. He was surprised that he wasn't fighting off the other 400 male submissives that should have been there.
I am also one who has opened other venues for *shy* male submissives. They usually want to know where the location of the link to the photo album is, and the schedule for the kinky chats. I am still working on a small local public get together which will be more FemDom/male sub oriented. It's Me, My Domina friend and her slave, and one Male Dom friend. It's okay, because tjhe company is good, but I do have to wonder where all these boys are.
*Shrugs* All one can do is try. And then try to bite the tongue when the next, inevitable whine is posted.



amayos -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 8:31:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress

Why is there this lack of male subs? Is this true at other munches? Do male subs not have the desire to know others in the lifestyle as just friends? Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others? What causes this? What's your opinion?


Attendance at munches does not give a sign one way or the other about the sincerity of a submissive—or dominant, for that matter. Personally, munches don't appeal to me—but then again, it's rare for me to show up at clubs, too. I suppose in the end whether we attend them or not depends on our preference and social demeanor.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 8:44:04 AM)

Depends on your area.

I know in large part a lot of the munches I've been to are male dom/fem sub/het/monogamous oriented. Anyone else would be in the minority and thus not as likely to be comfortable or feel welcomed. In my area we have major munches and we have locale specific munches and we have orientation specific munches. There's at least one munch for everyone here and I think that helps.

But some munches are very welcome and opening and have chunks of all types involved.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 8:58:25 AM)

quote:

Do male subs not have the desire to know others in the lifestyle as just friends? Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others? What causes this? What's your opinion?


Consider this - costumes.

As others have already said, men as a gender are expected to be strong, assertive, and domineering. At a Munch, you can't have an obvious display of your orientation. As occurred last night, if you are interested in a person you have to walk up to them and ask the first time attendee Munch question most often asked; "What are you a sub or Dom? Think about it; here's a guy coming from his office, factory, store, whatever who now has to admit out loud where other people hear; "I'm a sub." Whoops typo - "i'm a sub." For some, that's the first time they've heard the words out loud that have been rattling in their head for years. To a guy, brought up with a society stereotype male image in his head, that's about as "naked" as he can get.

Contrast this with a club. I think you'll see many more unattached sub males. Why? Again, the costume. Putting on a collar, or as we saw last time at Lair, walking around naked wearing a cock harness and a flashing light banner sign saying "i'm here to serve"; doesn't require saying out loud; "i'm a sub." For males it may be easier to display their submission than say they are submissive.

Is that an indication of shyness? Well, maybe a different way of showing it, another difference between the genders. Females may be shy about their bodies. Males are more shy about their emotions/personalities.

What do you think?



thetammyjo -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 9:23:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress


I've been attending munches now for about 18 months. The first munch I attended was a FemDom oriented one. It had two male subs who showed up regularly.The rest came and went, with few of them being repeat visitors. The current munch I attend has one regular male sub attendee- and he is collared/married to me. We've had a few other male subs show up once or twice, but not return. (We are a very friendly munch group and everyone is talked to and made to feel welcome, so that is not the reason.) We have female subs galore. We have a healthy number of Dom and Domme and a couple of Switches. Why is there this lack of male subs? Is this true at other munches? Do male subs not have the desire to know others in the lifestyle as just friends? Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others? What causes this? What's your opinion?


I did notice a similar thing at both the NYC and the Bloomington munches I went too.

But it wasn't just submissive men but single or unattached men in general -- they'd come to one or two or maybe to 3 or 4 a year.

Sometimes from speaking with them it was clear that they were looking for a partner and not finding one, probably decided not to come back.

Other times it was a matter of work schedules or even we'd have these gentlemen who came through town only a few times a year.

I also though noticed fewer unattached people in general though the women who were unattached seemed to come more often than men and make friends.

At the munches I've been to couples and poly groups were the most common attendees. I think that being alone can just feel overwhelming very easily. At a munch its food and talk; at a club you can stand on the side and watch scenes and workshop you can sit in the back and watch/listen. I think the munch is more intimate and I can understand that would be less welcoming for single people.



luckyslaveboync -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 9:59:20 AM)

As a male sub, lucky has two observations on this topic.

1. Fear of being outed kept lucky away from groups for years. What can lucky say?: it was a mistake that lucky would strongly urge other male subs not to make.

2. lucky finds going to a femdom-only group a lot more comfortable and has heard the same from other male subs, who often do not like their treatment in mixed bdsm groups with male doms.

Just this sub's experience,
lucky




cloudboy -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 10:13:39 AM)


I would offer some comments on muches, but I've never been to one. I guess I fit the OP's theory.



FangsNfeet -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 10:53:37 AM)

quote:

Why is there this lack of male subs? Is this true at other munches? Do male subs not have the desire to know others in the lifestyle as just friends? Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others? What causes this? What's your opinion?


Most of these guys are thinking they'll meet someone to serve and have sex with right then and there. If they aren't getting what they are looking for, then they're going to look somewheres else. If they want to make friends, they are usally wanting the friendship to include bennifits.

Many will attend the munch to find someone or something to do for atleast the night. They usually get discouraged when they find that it's usually not that easy.



Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 11:45:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress

Why is there this lack of male subs? Is this true at other munches? Do male subs not have the desire to know others in the lifestyle as just friends? Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others? What causes this? What's your opinion?

Good question. Although I, personally, am not looking for a male sub, I have really noticed how few show up at our munches as well.

In a local vanilla group I belong to that has regular get togethers there are almost twice as many men on the membership list as women but except for one or two of the girls' husbands no men ever show up...although they occasionally post asking when the GT is, and appear interested. Related? Who knows.

I wonder about this myself...

Cin



Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 11:58:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
As others have already said, men as a gender are expected to be strong, assertive, and domineering. At a Munch, you can't have an obvious display of your orientation. As occurred last night, if you are interested in a person you have to walk up to them and ask the first time attendee Munch question most often asked; "What are you a sub or Dom? Think about it; here's a guy coming from his office, factory, store, whatever who now has to admit out loud where other people hear; "I'm a sub." Whoops typo - "i'm a sub." For some, that's the first time they've heard the words out loud that have been rattling in their head for years. To a guy, brought up with a society stereotype male image in his head, that's about as "naked" as he can get.
What do you think?

I think you've made an excellent point. I know I often forget what stigma it is, in our society, for men to be seen as less than macho. Sure, I have a few feminist theories to deal with, but since I don't follow their reasoning their voices are easily ignored for me.

Men have a much harder time being seen as emotionally vulnerable in our society.

I think there may be another side to the costume thing, as well...Most men are visual, and male subs, from what I understand, are highly attracted to, and turned on by, the female dominant outfits. The leather and whips are not to be found at munches. That must take some of the interest out of it, for a lot of them.

Cin



GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 12:36:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Most of these guys are thinking they'll meet someone to serve and have sex with right then and there. If they aren't getting what they are looking for, then they're going to look somewheres else. If they want to make friends, they are usally wanting the friendship to include bennifits.

Many will attend the munch to find someone or something to do for atleast the night. They usually get discouraged when they find that it's usually not that easy.


There have been several really good suppositions, and I am sure all of them hold true part of the time. However, I'm really glad you added this, Fangs. I have found your reasoning to be true, and this sad fact is much more palatable when offered honestly by a man.



MichMasochist -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 2:25:29 PM)

Had to think about this. Why I don't attend munches.

1) You women can possibly relate, I don't like getting hit on by guys. It seems a sub guy shows at a munch and a majority of those there right away think he gay. Male doms can be quite pesky.

2) All the women I have met, on the few occasions, are subs and collared. Well I'm not looking for a sub gal.

3) The only dom gals are pro and sometimes pushing the hard sell. Well, I'm looking for a partner not a cash arrangement.

4) After the usual polite greetings, I have often got the "Oh your a sub." then ingored. Or you're just here to play around.

5) For myself, particularly, I have quite the assertive personality. If not take charge, Alpha male type. So I find myself getting "Your not a sub. you're really a dom." Then atleast one or two woman will ask me to spank them. Well I can't do that hun, it's not me. I don't think women, in general, take too well to rejection.

Will I ever go to a munch this year? Probably not. Went twice last year. A couple of times the year before.

Mich



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