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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:43:26 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I"LL BET THE OP WISHES HE DID NOT HAVE TO SHOOT THE KID TOO.

Yes, I think so too. But I hope you notice that the operative phrase there is "have to".

The kid made that choice, not Orion.

K.


It seems everyone thinks I disagree with his actions... dam it I don't...but can't we talk about what could have been done where he was not shot without being cussed at?

Maybe I read the thread and misunderstood it’d direction but I don’t ever back down from my beliefs.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:51:08 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

I do not blame him in the least for defending himself and family…I just think he handled it wrong and it unnecessarily caused the loss of life.

Did you actually read the thread before you got on your soapbox? From what Orion has said, the kid survived.


Yes I did...but it was pure luck... and I am not on a high horse...just think may have been a better way...and it would behoove us all to have a plan in this situation that does not involve gunfire.

Butch



Don't you think it would help if you actually acknowledged the chain of events.

As in he didn't know there was a criminal in the house, only heard something, and investigated. He saw the man, told him to freeze, then told his wife to call the cops. The guy went for a weapon, so he shot him.

Listen, I hear shit regularly, that I investigate, most of the noises end up to be nothing. In your world, I guess every time anyone hears a odd bang, or shuffle, we should dial 911. If that was the case we'd see cop cars running all over the place non-stop pursuing pans the kitty cat knocked over.

So, "Normal" people investigate. Notice he never heard a voice, just noise, which could have been caused by a number of things other than a criminal.

He instead of finding grandpa, or son scrounging for something in the garage, found a  strange man, going through his shit. He told him to freeze, told the wife to call the cops. The guy didn't comply. He chose to get shot.

And taking those events you say, we should examine how not to shoot the "KID", a gun toting 19 year old gang member, that is going through your shit in the middle of the night is not a kid, but someone that has chosen to possibly escalate the situation to murder by bringing a deadly weapon into their victims house.

There were children, and the elderly in the house, and you are worried about saving the life of the Gun toting thief!!!! Amazing. Just Amazing...

If the guy died, it would have been 100% the criminals fault. There is no need to "reevaluate" on the home owners part because they weren't the ones breaking in with a gun!@!

Fucking hell.... is this hard to understand. The aggressor and instigator was the criminal, if he had not broken in, nor went for a gun, he wouldn't be in the hospital with bullets in him.





< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 12/7/2009 10:01:41 PM >

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:53:33 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

BUT you are all right hindsight is great so I place no blame... just saying there were better way...

Oh there's plenty of blame here. You just don't want to put it where it belongs. I don't know why. The kid was the one who engineered the night's events. Start to finish. He didn't have to decide to go breaking into someone's home. He didn't have to carry a gun. And even then, right up until the last minute, he didn't have to get shot.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/7/2009 10:07:31 PM >

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:54:41 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

Yes I did...but it was pure luck...

So... if you shoot someone and they live, you have somehow caused a loss of life? How does that work?
quote:

and I am not on a high horse.

Yes, you are.
quote:

..just think may have been a better way...and it would behoove us all to have a plan in this situation that does not involve gunfire.

Okies. You've got yourself and your girl in the room next to where the bad guy is, a four year old down the hall, grandma upstairs in the great room, papa also upstairs in a bedroom, and an adult son who may or may not be home. How exactly are you going to call the cops, get the kid, get up the stairs, secure the granny and papa, and find out where the other son is without the intruder hearing you??


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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:55:54 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am sorry you feel that way...I may have done the same thing as the OP. The thread is to talk about it so in the future it may be handled differently.

Would it not have been best if no one was shot and the burglar was caught?

I am certainly not putting the life of a burglar in front of a family. Only tying to talk of ways this could have been avoided in the first place.

We have a plan at our house now after the break in.

Do you think your laptop is worth a life for you to keep?… if you do and you still think I am an ass for talking about it then fuck you too.


I"LL BET THE OP WISHES HE DID NOT HAVE TO SHOOT THE KID TOO.



My laptop isn't worth a life but, if someone *breaks into my home* to take it it certainly is!
How do *I* know what their motives are when they break into my home? There won't be *ANY* exchange of words if that ever happens and I'll do a few headshots for the coup de grace!

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:04:16 PM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It seems everyone thinks I disagree with his actions... dam it I don't...but can't we talk about what could have been done where he was not shot without being cussed at?

Maybe I read the thread and misunderstood it’d direction but I don’t ever back down from my beliefs.


You know what fine, you want to talk about alternatives to shooting a burglar go for it. Start a thread that in YOUR OPINION there are better ways. But to come on a thread, started by a man who is pretty well liked and respected on this site, and question his decission about how he protected his family is fucked up FOR REAL.


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Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:05:52 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I"LL BET THE OP WISHES HE DID NOT HAVE TO SHOOT THE KID TOO.

i love how you sink yourself with your own words! (i highlighted in red)



I have respected many of your posts in the past...so I am taking the time to better explain my position with you to try and keep mutual respect. I think you are misreading my intentions.

The way it worked out was unavoidable and not wrong. I’m sure no one feels worse about having to shoot this kid then Orion, at least I hope so.

I jumped in with the wrong attitude which a apologized for but then tried to get my point across in a better way.

What happened happened and thanks heavens he and the family were safe.

Now what I wanted to do was NOT criticize what happened but talk about what could have happened… There is a big difference that I must not have pointed out because of the vehemence in responses I got… And yes I lost my temper because I felt it unjust.

I thank every family should have a plan and talk about it and practice it. Orion’s would need to be different than mine because of the house lay out but there could have been one that would not have resulted in this boy getting shot.

This is the discussion I wanted not putting down gun owners or the right to defend your family.

There is another point I brought out but not directly. I grew up in an area of St Louis that was gang ridden… if you did not join a gang you were a target for abuse so most of us did or spent our childhood hiding out. A very gentle best friend of mine was forced into a gang because he was afraid. He was forced to steel cars and was shot and killed…he did not deserve it he was a good kid with a knife at his back and a gun in his face.

I hope this makes things clear.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/7/2009 10:07:43 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:08:18 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Not for nothing...but it sure sounds like some of you would now like to take a shot at Butch.
Imagine the nerve this guy has...to suggest that *gasp* there might have been another way to handle this...which might have...perhaps could have possibly led to Orion not having to have shot this kid.
What nerve

_____________________________

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:12:34 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

~FR~

There are a few people that read, but do not post on these forums, that have communicated malicious intent in the past, one of which has a RO on them from a few years ago at a previous address. I contemplated posting that this was a hoax by me, but that doesn't sit well with me. I wish I had thought of this before posting, but I didn't. There is one small blurb, that gives my home address, but I am not going to post the link. If anyone that cares, when you find it, please do not post the link. I am ure there will be at least one person that will though, so that request will be for nothing.

Those that believe so, can believe that it is a hoax, or a metaphorical story, I don't care about either. What I do care about now is some information getting out, that I had not thought of before. Pretty stupid, but I will live with it.


Well Orion, you know that I don't ever agree with Sanity on anything.  But I have to agree with his skepticism toward your story.

You've mentioned before that you live in the Atlanta area. 

Since you've posted this story I have been logging on to the Atlanta Journal Constitution site and their affiliated tv news station and haven't heard a word about this.

I've searched for home invasions and shootings in Fulton and DeKalb counties with nothing matching what you describe.

Yet there were two other stories of home invasion burglaries in the past week that were of far less severity than what you claim, and they both received a great deal of press coverage.

How is it that your incident has received no coverage?

If it has and I missed it then provide the citation and feel free to black out any names, addresses, even the name of the media source itself to protect your privacy.

Home Invasion Leaves One Man Injured | FOX 5 Atlanta ...Dec 4, 2009 
Home near Georgia Tech robbed in home invasion | ajc.comDec 2, 2009 ... Atlanta police Wednesday were investigating an overnight home invasion and armed robbery at a house just north of the Georgia Tech campus.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:14:39 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Not for nothing...but it sure sounds like some of you would now like to take a shot at Butch.
Imagine the nerve this guy has...to suggest that *gasp* there might have been another way to handle this...which might have...perhaps could have possibly led to Orion not having to have shot this kid.
What nerve


That ain't the problem. The problem is, Orion stated all the pertinent details in numerous posts. Police response time, the 'noise' that triggered his investigation, the fact that his KID's room was right next to his (and the storage room the bad guy was in). He's more than covered his bases. After all of that, he gave the guy THREE CHANCES *not* to get shot. The guy made his choice all on his own.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:19:32 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Duh! there were OTHER ways it could have happened. But to come to this thread (instead of starting one to discuss the other ways issue) in my opinion, is poor form, and rude. Do you have ANY idea what the man might be feeling??? He was UP AGAINST IT FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!.... and now guess what?...He gets to replay the fuckin shit over and over in his head....and i'm sure he really appreciates the support he has gotten...and i know hes smart enough to ignore the fuck heads. But man...when you have been THAT fucked with, and something THAT heavy happened..... the LAST thing you need is an asshole saying some fucked up shit. i guess i was hoping for more consideration for the man. 

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:21:56 PM   
starshineowned


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From: Texas
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quote:

It seems everyone thinks I disagree with his actions... dam it I don't...but can't we talk about what could have been done where he was not shot without being cussed at?


Greetings..

Yes of course we can.

1. The 19yr old could of not entered into a home that wasn't his.
2. The 19yr old could of complied the 1st time after being told there was a gun pointed at him.
3. The 19yr old could of complied the 2nd time after being told there was a gun pointed at him.
4. The 19yr old could of complied the 3rd time after being told there was a gun pointed at him.

I think that is a good start.

I'm very glad you and yours are safe Master Orion.

starshine


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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:22:45 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Not for nothing...but it sure sounds like some of you would now like to take a shot at Butch.
Imagine the nerve this guy has...to suggest that *gasp* there might have been another way to handle this...which might have...perhaps could have possibly led to Orion not having to have shot this kid.
What nerve


Maybe because that is not what was happening. This statement from a couple pages back is not a discussion but assertions.

quote:


Things… under no circumstance are worth a life…no matter low that life is. The only important point is that the burglar may have used the gun…BUT only after he was confronted. He should have waited for the police to arrive, remember he moved to confront the burglar. Now if the burglar gave him no choice than that would be a different situation. It had not reached that point yet and a boy was unnecessarily shot.

If you can’t see that then you are the stupid one not me.

Butch




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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:26:43 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

he gave the guy THREE CHANCES *not* to get shot. The guy made his choice all on his own.

Exactly. No matter what anyone might have done or could have done up to that point, the final choice was entirely in his hands, and he alone is responsible for it.

K.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:34:42 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Not for nothing...but it sure sounds like some of you would now like to take a shot at Butch.
Imagine the nerve this guy has...to suggest that *gasp* there might have been another way to handle this...which might have...perhaps could have possibly led to Orion not having to have shot this kid.
What nerve


Maybe because that is not what was happening. This statement from a couple pages back is not a discussion but assertions.

quote:


Things… under no circumstance are worth a life…no matter low that life is. The only important point is that the burglar may have used the gun…BUT only after he was confronted. He should have waited for the police to arrive, remember he moved to confront the burglar. Now if the burglar gave him no choice than that would be a different situation. It had not reached that point yet and a boy was unnecessarily shot.

If you can’t see that then you are the stupid one not me.

Butch






So in your mercy I should be shot for saying an opinion above?...You know stating an opinion that life is worth more then household goods? you know also stating that if as happened the intruder tried to use the gun he was justified in shooting him...and to say if he had not gone looking for him he may not of needed to shoot him? All if and could have been discussions... Not a put down of anyone.

You're good people
Orion is not the kind of man to need a shoulder to cry on... I would hope he would like a spirited discussion on his actions... I'm sure he will give me hell... he does not need his little minions to rant at me like a bunch of babies throwing temper tantrums.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/7/2009 10:42:18 PM >

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:44:06 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

So in your mercy I should be shot for saying an opinion above?...

Seriously, Butch, those meds and posting are not a good mix. NTUY never said that and was responding to Mike's hyperbole.

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"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:46:12 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Would it not have been best if no one was shot and the burglar was caught? "

No. Consequences teach. Death makes one perfect. I hope the punk never walks again, or suffers something to make him remember this experience forever.

Invading someone's home is a real crime and should have real consequences. If the punk has the support of a gang and some money, going to the joint will be pretty easy. I say at least give him a limp. Or shoot his arm off with a hand cannon. Whatever it is, make him know what it means to be prey rather than a predator.

Sorry, but I prefer to solve problems, not manage them. And it is high time.

T

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:50:31 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		lol... I am sorry then Diazepan and oxycodone must have me talking goofy...in fact I know it... I now wish I had shut the f__k up and never say anything. Good intentions don't mean much here.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:51:47 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Duh! there were OTHER ways it could have happened. But to come to this thread (instead of starting one to discuss the other ways issue) in my opinion, is poor form, and rude. Do you have ANY idea what the man might be feeling??? He was UP AGAINST IT FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!.... and now guess what?...He gets to replay the fuckin shit over and over in his head....and i'm sure he really appreciates the support he has gotten...and i know hes smart enough to ignore the fuck heads. But man...when you have been THAT fucked with, and something THAT heavy happened..... the LAST thing you need is an asshole saying some fucked up shit. i guess i was hoping for more consideration for the man. 
Well first off my initial post on this thread(pg1 or 2?)was to indicate happiness that Orion and his were safe.
But this is a public forum...all Butch did was participate..Offered an opinion,an unpopular opinion to be sure...but a legitimate one...whether you or others care to hear it.
The venom he has gotten back might lead one to think he had broken into Orions house that night.
It is surprising that speculation positing whether or not there was a way this could have been handled without anyone getting shot....has drawn so much fire.Maybe not so surprising after all .


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 10:52:48 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Would it not have been best if no one was shot and the burglar was caught? "

No. Consequences teach. Death makes one perfect. I hope the punk never walks again, or suffers something to make him remember this experience forever.

Invading someone's home is a real crime and should have real consequences. If the punk has the support of a gang and some money, going to the joint will be pretty easy. I say at least give him a limp. Or shoot his arm off with a hand cannon. Whatever it is, make him know what it means to be prey rather than a predator.

Sorry, but I prefer to solve problems, not manage them. And it is high time.

T

I can't argue with you there is sense in what you say I am just not that bloodthirsty.

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 200
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