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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 8:38:33 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

OK...if he had died would it have been worth the junk in your basement big man?

Could you have quietly...with gun in hand called the police and said there was someone in your house then made sure your wife was safe...again with gun in hand and wait for the police to arrive...again with gun in hand?

Butch



There is no position easier to play than Monday morning quarterback. To sit in the comfort and safety of one's own home and dissect what was done when a dangerous and potentially deadly situation was going on is inappropriate to say the least.

I do not say that your idea of how to handle it is not valid. But it wasn't you or your loved one's on the line. Orion's was. Let's keep that in mind, shall we?





Hey guess what...you’re full of crap...again... this situation happened to me exactly.

I grabbed my wife…went to my children’s room…with my twenty gauge and called the police.

Granted I have a two story...they were down stairs and I was up stairs. I yelled the police were on the way through the door… Guess what they did…ran.

I lost a laptop but no one was killed.


Butch


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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 8:44:42 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I am balancing life against things...for all you know the crook could have been your child on a dare from friends or high on drugs. Would you have liked him to gun him down then?


Impossible. I have no kids. If I did, however, then yes, I'd still side with Orion. Because I would raise my kid to know that if he enters another man's home in the middle of the night, he should expect to die. Don't try and justify what this guy did by using straw logic and 'what ifs.' What if a meteor hit while the guy was in the house? Makes no sense, right? So does asking if it was my kid. It wasn't. It was an armed 19-year-old gang member doing an initiation (apparently in the wrong house for more than one reason).

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Things… under no circumstance are worth a life…no matter low that life is.


That's your opinion. And put side-by-side, the answer is obvious. However, I will say again. The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. So it's things today. And then perhaps it escalates tomorrow. There are studies, after all, that show the majority of serial killers started out tormenting animals as youngsters. Sure, it's just simple burglary today. Tomorrow it could be a violent home invasion/rape.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
The only important point is that the burglar may have used the gun…BUT only after he was confronted. He should have waited for the police to arrive, remember he moved to confront the burglar. Now if the burglar gave him no choice than that would be a different situation. It had not reached that point yet and a boy was unnecessarily shot.


You don't know that. He had his gun on him. It's just that the first room he found had only "things" in it. He could just as eaily have wandered into Orion's room (since it's right next to the room Orion found him in). And things may have gone quite differently.

Also, since you clearly haven't read all of Orion's account, he investigated because there was a greater likliehood that it was just an animal or a relative making the noise. The moment he was aware it was neither of those possibilities was when he was standing in the same room with an armed individual. And as Orion further indicated, if he called the cops for every 'noise' he couldn't account for, the cops would be living at his home. You can arm-chair-quarterback this all you like. You weren't there.

When it's your home and your family, you can let them rob you blind and kill your loved ones all you like. Some of us would rather defend our homes to the full extent allowed by law.

By the way, after the threatening motion the intruder made *after* being told he would be shot, he brought it on himself. You don't do what he did when you have a gun pointed at you and expect to live. Not in my house, and apparently not in Orion's house either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If you can’t see that then you are the stupid one not me.


I believe this last quote really applies more to you than to me.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 8:48:07 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Hey guess what...you’re full of crap...again... this situation happened to me exactly.

I grabbed my wife…went to my children’s room…with my twenty gauge and called the police.

Granted I have a two story...they were down stairs and I was up stairs. I yelled the police were on the way through the door… Guess what they did…ran.

I lost a laptop but no one was killed.


Hey gues what. The only one I see full of shit is you.

You didn't go through anything like what Orion did, by your own admission.

You said you were upstairs and the bad guys were down stairs. Orion was one room away from his bad guy. You knew (apparently) that the noise was a bad guy stealing your shit. Orion thought it was a relative or an animal. He didn't find out until it was too late that it was an intruder.

You're 'ok' with your house being robbed and your stuff being stolen. Some of us, Orion included, are not. Apparently, what I'm getting from your comments, is that if I come to your house, and simply keep to the ground floor, I can have what I want and have no repercussions. I just have to keep to the downstairs and leave before the cops show up, right? That's a hell of a deal.

Where do you live again? I could use a new laptop.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 8:50:43 PM   
kdsub


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I hope you read my second post as well...but remember if he had awoke to a sound...right then and there called the police rather then load his gun and search through the house. The police would have most likely been there before the need to shoot him. He admits it took only a couple of minutes for the police to arrive.

I do not blame him in the least for defending himself and family…I just think he handled it wrong and it unnecessarily caused the loss of life.

Our children don’t always turn out like we want them to and I hope someone with power over their life takes extreme care with killing them.

Butch


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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 8:52:09 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Damn close enough for me...but remember he put himself in danger

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 8:57:10 PM   
Loki45


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Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I hope you read my second post as well...but remember if he had awoke to a sound...right then and there called the police rather then load his gun and search through the house. The police would have most likely been there before the need to shoot him. He admits it took only a couple of minutes for the police to arrive.

I do not blame him in the least for defending himself and family…I just think he handled it wrong and it unnecessarily caused the loss of life.

Our children don’t always turn out like we want them to and I hope someone with power over their life takes extreme care with killing them.


Apparently, it's you that needs the lesson in reading comprehension.

Allow me to help (but only this once);

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
The official time from time of dispatch to time of arrical was 7 minutes and 23 seconds, which is about average for this area.


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
The storage room is the first room off the garage, from there is the small hallway to two rooms, mine and across the hall, my 4 year old sons, and stairs that go up into the main part of the house, opening into the Great Room. In the Great Room is the Granny, and down the hallway from the Great room is the other bedrooms, including where the Papa is.


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Live in a rural area, and have had critters of various kinds come in through dryer vents, under the siding, and other things. I was not positive it was the garage door until later. Not to mention that there are several people that live here, so I was not sure if it was my son just getting something from our tool area. Before I saw the guy I kept saying to myself it was probably my olds son, a possum, raccoon, or something. We had extremely cold temps, so the likelyhood of it being an animal was muh greater. If we called the Sheriff's Dept for every sound out here, that we cannot identify, they would be making a lot of trips.



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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:00:19 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Damn close enough for me...but remember he put himself in danger


This is the same kind of thinking that lets bad guys win settlements against law-abiding citizens. It disgusts me. The BAD GUY put Orion's life in danger when he entered his home.

You have NO IDEA what may have happened if the guy wasn't confronted. He could have fled, killed everyone or had a fucking tea party for all you know. The simple fact is Orion wasn't willing to find out which of those it would be.

And I can honestly tell you I would do the same. No wait. I wouldn't. Orion warned the guy THREE TIMES. I'd have just flicked on the lights for a split second. Long enough for the guy to know he fucked up before I painted the walls with his brains.

Here's one more fact for you. He who enters a home that is not his with nefarious intentions should expect that he will not make it out of that home alive. He risks his life each and every time he commits a crime because he just doesn't know what the homeowner will do.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:04:59 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You are too fanatic for you own good...and not worth a further response.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:05:08 PM   
GYPSYMAMBO


Posts: 660
Joined: 9/26/2009
Status: offline 		to anyone..
it is really easy ot speculate what should have been done or not and IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN IN THIS SITATION
You cannot know...until it happens..
It is like those who say they would not eat human flesh to survive...how could they know if that have nto starved on a mountain for weeks?
 
I have been in several situations in my half a century similar and I have to say..
YOU HAVE ABOUT 3 seconds to make a decision..and YOU MAY NOT even know yourself what you will do...
 
THIS whole thread can be a wake up call or learning for us to think about what we would do...
just like a fire drill....BE READY...
 
now
 I relayed this thread incident to my 99 yr old grandmother...yesterday and she said..
 
"If yer gonna do er... do er good..........make sure he ain't talkin' when yer done..."
 
 
She by the way keeps a 357 MAGNUM under pillow and a machete in her flour drawer.
 
GM
 
 
 
 

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:08:05 PM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Damn close enough for me...but remember he put himself in danger


This is the same kind of thinking that lets bad guys win settlements against law-abiding citizens. It disgusts me. The BAD GUY put Orion's life in danger when he entered his home.

You have NO IDEA what may have happened if the guy wasn't confronted. He could have fled, killed everyone or had a fucking tea party for all you know. The simple fact is Orion wasn't willing to find out which of those it would be.

And I can honestly tell you I would do the same. No wait. I wouldn't. Orion warned the guy THREE TIMES. I'd have just flicked on the lights for a split second. Long enough for the guy to know he fucked up before I painted the walls with his brains.

Here's one more fact for you. He who enters a home that is not his with nefarious intentions should expect that he will not make it out of that home alive. He risks his life each and every time he commits a crime because he just doesn't know what the homeowner will do.


Yeah....what he said...Now kdsub, shut the fuck up already. You are embarrassing yourself by trying to twist what the man did to save his family, and his property into something wrong and unjust.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:09:20 PM   
Loki45


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Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
You are too fanatic for you own good...and not worth a further response.


Funny, I was just thinking the same thing about you. The difference is, you fanatically support the criminal. I fanatically support the law-abiding citizen and VICTIM in this case -- Orion.

By the way, I love that you totally ignored the statements I highlighted from Orion, especially because they directly and irrefutably dispell your side of the argument (such as it is).


< Message edited by Loki45 -- 12/7/2009 9:10:11 PM >

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:09:41 PM   
Termyn8or


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There will always be a divide between people on such a subject. I prefer to not waste my time. If you are old enough to post on this forum you are not only old enough to know right from wrong, you may have had some conflict in your life.

No remorse on this one, and I'll look his Mother right in the eye and say so. Of course I am sorry she didn't raise the punk right, better luck next time. I am tired of bleeding hearts, except when they belong to someone who should be wearing lead.

If the world keeps going in it's current direction I might go off. That means I will set a trap, and be across the street with a rifle and a scope. I will also have a crew to get rid of the body quickly, and some peroxide to bleach the bloodstains.

Get this asshole shit out of your heads, your life is worth what you make it worth. Alot of these punks aren't worth a slice of bread. Get over it, kill them and make the human race better.

"Sorry I had to whack your kid. Next time teach your kids to respect other people's shit and maybe one will survive".

You think I'm kidding ? Try me.

T

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:10:58 PM   
Loki45


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Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
There will always be a divide between people on such a subject. I prefer to not waste my time. If you are old enough to post on this forum you are not only old enough to know right from wrong, you may have had some conflict in your life.

No remorse on this one, and I'll look his Mother right in the eye and say so. Of course I am sorry she didn't raise the punk right, better luck next time. I am tired of bleeding hearts, except when they belong to someone who should be wearing lead.

If the world keeps going in it's current direction I might go off. That means I will set a trap, and be across the street with a rifle and a scope. I will also have a crew to get rid of the body quickly, and some peroxide to bleach the bloodstains.

Get this asshole shit out of your heads, your life is worth what you make it worth. Alot of these punks aren't worth a slice of bread. Get over it, kill them and make the human race better.

"Sorry I had to whack your kid. Next time teach your kids to respect other people's shit and maybe one will survive".

You think I'm kidding ? Try me.


Well said.


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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:24:39 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I am sorry you feel that way...I may have done the same thing as the OP. The thread is to talk about it so in the future it may be handled differently.

Would it not have been best if no one was shot and the burglar was caught?

I am certainly not putting the life of a burglar in front of a family. Only tying to talk of ways this could have been avoided in the first place.

We have a plan at our house now after the break in.

Do you think your laptop is worth a life for you to keep?… if you do and you still think I am an ass for talking about it then fuck you too.


I"LL BET THE OP WISHES HE DID NOT HAVE TO SHOOT THE KID TOO.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/7/2009 9:28:59 PM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:29:44 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

I do not blame him in the least for defending himself and family…I just think he handled it wrong and it unnecessarily caused the loss of life.

Did you actually read the thread before you got on your soapbox? From what Orion has said, the kid survived.

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 12/7/2009 9:30:44 PM >

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:30:40 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Our children don’t always turn out like we want them to and I hope someone with power over their life takes extreme care with killing them.

No problem. In fact, if circumstances allow, I'll even do better than that. I'll let them make the choice themselves.

Just like Orion did.

K.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:34:42 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

I do not blame him in the least for defending himself and family…I just think he handled it wrong and it unnecessarily caused the loss of life.

Did you actually read the thread before you got on your soapbox? From what Orion has said, the kid survived.


Yes I did...but it was pure luck... and I am not on a high horse...just think may have been a better way...and it would behoove us all to have a plan in this situation that does not involve gunfire.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:38:53 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Our children don’t always turn out like we want them to and I hope someone with power over their life takes extreme care with killing them.

No problem. In fact, if circumstances allow, I'll even do better than that. I'll let them make the choice themselves.

Just like Orion did.

K.




I don't know his home...I know mine... I would have hid where there was a view of him approaching. Then I would have said the police are coming get out... If he ran out the door...like most would then it is over... if he came for me in the dark where I have the drop on him he is dead... that would be my plan....

BUT you are all right hindsight is great so I place no blame... just saying there were better way... maybe in the future they would be used.

Butch



< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/7/2009 9:40:11 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:39:54 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I"LL BET THE OP WISHES HE DID NOT HAVE TO SHOOT THE KID TOO.

Yes, I think so too. But I hope you notice that the operative phrase there is "have to".

The kid made that choice, not Orion.

K.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/7/2009 9:41:34 PM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I"LL BET THE OP WISHES HE DID NOT HAVE TO SHOOT THE KID TOO.

i love how you sink yourself with your own words! (i highlighted in red)


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