Submission advice please? (Full Version)

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domsheldon -> Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 7:35:51 PM)

December 6th 2009.

I am having difficulty with training at this point. I think it is because I am Dominate by nature, it is making it very hard to stay in subspace.

I cannot seem to let go of all control I have. My mistress slapped me several times the other night. To my dismay I got angrier and angrier each time I was slapped as opposed to what it was meant to do and make me laps into subspace.

I hope someone out there is reading this and can give me some tips or help. I am not sure what I can do about it.

My mistress's has said if I cannot get my act together in the next couple of days she will break me another way. She also promises I will not enjoy it even a little bit.

So to all other sub's out there I could use a hand.

(ps please dont mail me if you are not living the life style the way it is meant to be.)



Aileen1968 -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 7:39:54 PM)

I'm really confused. If you are dominant then why are you being slapped by your mistress?



domsheldon -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 7:46:12 PM)

I guess I neglected to mention. I am out of town receiving training in the life style to better myself as a D/ The only problem is I have not subbed to anyone before and they feel I will learn a lot more by being submissive for a while and being put through everything. I am relatively new to the life style only having been in it hardcore for last last two years.

That is why I am training, I need to be the best.



Aileen1968 -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 7:47:55 PM)

And how's that working out for ya?
My advice is instead of focusing on being a good submissive, focus on being a good dominant if you want to be a good dominant.



breatheasone -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 7:49:07 PM)

Hmmm...but if you are not submissive, you can never know how it feels to submit because its who you are. You can see what it feels like to bottom, but i'm not so sure you will really "understand" what it feels like to be an s-type unless you are one. ymmv



Elizabeth666 -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 7:50:03 PM)

I also think you may be confusing what sub space is? Just my guess.

Anyway, it's hard to give up control if you never have before, regardless of which side of the slash you're on.

Give yourself time to learn, the first few scenes i had with Sir, i wanted to tell Him to fuck off and stop hitting me. It was a natural reaction which i had to move past.



domsheldon -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 7:56:30 PM)

It is working out well, and the logic behind it is sound. If I am put through everything I will understand more. I am to a degree. I cannot get into the right state of mind. I am doing both training sets for the first two months I am under the ownership of one mistress whom works with subs. For the second 5 months I will be working with another mistress training as a Dom.

I don't know Maybe I am just confused right now. It all happening pretty quick it's becoming more difficult by the day to process what I am learning because it comes in at such large volumes.



HisSweetElysium -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:00:40 PM)

I think your dedication is admirable, and works well for some, but for others, I think perhaps it is not a workable scenario.  Maybe for you seeking the guidance of an experience lifestyle involved dominant to be a mentor would be more workable for you.  I have known Doms in the past who have started out this way; and I have known Doms that have helped others.  There are probably many ways to do with but the one I am familiar with is the new Dom would meet with the experienced Dom and his Sub/Slave (s) and work with them in terms of instruction and trying specific things in a nonsexual way.  Many people desire to give back to the scene, to make it safe and sane for others, and might be willing to help in this way should you prove yourself to be worth their time.

Best wishes! 



gorlove -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:00:55 PM)

Sounds nuts to me. i am no expert, but i thought it was all about each person's basic nature, and letting that come out. it also sounds mean. i would get out of that mess.



cimmerian -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:04:28 PM)

I never get this logic of trying someone else's shoes to know how it is. It's called "vicarious imagination". I am sure that being shot hurts, and yet, I don't need to be shot to know that.




WyldHrt -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:06:40 PM)

quote:

(ps please dont mail me if you are not living the life style the way it is meant to be.)

Umm... you will have to be a LOT clearer about what you mean by this. Take a read around the forums and you will see that there are nearly as many ways to "live the lifestyle" as there are folks living it. It's not a "right" or "wrong" kind of thing.

That said, I don't really agree that a dominant needs to bottom in order to learn. IMO, it would serve you better to work on skills like reading body language and communication. While bottoming may teach you to appreciate the efforts of submissives, a natural dominant won't get the same thing out of the experience that a submissive will. On the flip side, I'm perfectly capable of topping, but doing so wouldn't teach me much because I don't get off on control or being in charge.
$.02



domsheldon -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:08:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cimmerian

I never get this logic of trying someone else's shoes to know how it is. It's called "vicarious imagination". I am sure that being shot hurts, and yet, I don't need to be shot to know that.




Well this is what I know, I knew my sub liked to be whipped. I knew she liked pain, but what happens when your dominate has never been whipped before and does not know when he should let up or how hard to hard is?



sirsholly -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:08:27 PM)

quote:

ps please dont mail me if you are not living the life style the way it is meant to be.
and how is that?



breatheasone -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:09:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

(ps please dont mail me if you are not living the life style the way it is meant to be.)

Umm... you will have to be a LOT clearer about what you mean by this. Take a read around the forums and you will see that there are nearly as many ways to "live the lifestyle" as there are folks living it. It's not a "right" or "wrong" kind of thing.

That said, I don't really agree that a dominant needs to bottom in order to learn. IMO, it would serve you better to work on skills like reading body language and communication. While bottoming may teach you to appreciate the efforts of submissives, a natural dominant won't get the same thing out of the experience that a submissive will. On the flip side, I'm perfectly capable of topping, but doing so wouldn't teach me much because I don't get off on control or being in charge.
$.02


All of that...WELL said!



Elizabeth666 -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:10:20 PM)

quote:

but what happens when your dominate has never been whipped before and does not know when he should let up or how hard to hard is?


That's where communication comes in. You don't have to experience it yourself to learn. Just talk, ask questions. As WyldHrt said, learn to read body language as well.

ETA - Sir has never been whipped or Dominated in any way, but He knows how to weild His implements of torture and how to talk to me and see if i'm ok.



Aileen1968 -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:11:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: domsheldon

quote:

ORIGINAL: cimmerian

I never get this logic of trying someone else's shoes to know how it is. It's called "vicarious imagination". I am sure that being shot hurts, and yet, I don't need to be shot to know that.




Well this is what I know, I knew my sub liked to be whipped. I knew she liked pain, but what happens when your dominate has never been whipped before and does not know when he should let up or how hard to hard is?



Your pain threshold is going to be entirely different from hers. You're better off focusing on how to read her reactions then by gaging it to what you can endure.

And once again it's you are a dominant, not a dominate.



breatheasone -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:11:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domsheldon

quote:

ORIGINAL: cimmerian

I never get this logic of trying someone else's shoes to know how it is. It's called "vicarious imagination". I am sure that being shot hurts, and yet, I don't need to be shot to know that.




Well this is what I know, I knew my sub liked to be whipped. I knew she liked pain, but what happens when your dominate has never been whipped before and does not know when he should let up or how hard to hard is?


Safe words....reading her body language.... the look of her skin.... i don't know all the answers, but these must be a few of the "go bys" D-types use.



WyldHrt -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:12:06 PM)

quote:

Well this is what I know, I knew my sub liked to be whipped. I knew she liked pain, but what happens when your dominate has never been whipped before and does not know when he should let up or how hard to hard is?

Being whipped won't teach you anything about when to let up or how hard is too hard. What feels like skin being peeled off to you may be a tickle to a true painslut.

And once more... it's dominANT not dominate.



sirsholly -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:20:17 PM)

quote:

Well this is what I know, I knew my sub liked to be whipped. I knew she liked pain, but what happens when your dominate has never been whipped before and does not know when he should let up or how hard to hard is?
You listen to your submissive.

I don't give a dead rats ass if you are experiencing everything yourself that you will one day put a sub through. That is a crock of horse hooey. The sub in front of you has her own limits and tolerances which have nothing to do with what you experienced as a submissive. Quite frankly, i find this rather alarming. Do you plan on plowing on, despite her obvious distress, simply because you are doing what was done to you, and you found it tolerable? Do you see no need to give her a safe word, because you will do nothing to her that you have not experienced first hand, and you survived to tell the tale?

Wow...the fact that you are in this mindset is frightening.



SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:33:15 PM)

First, let me wish you good luck in your endeavors.  It's admirable that you want to learn to be the best dominant you can be, to the point of walking the proverbial mile in another's shoes.  Props to you.  Second, let me state up front that I'm one of those who doesn't believe in and has no use for learning "from the bottom up" in the way some formal Leather communities do.  In your place, I would seek out a more experienced dominant to act as a mentor and forego the bottom training altogether.  However, since you've decided on this course, I'll wish you well in it.
 
With that said, I'll address your concerns.  When you say your mistress slapped you, you don't specify where she slapped you.  However, from the context, I'm guessing she slapped your face.  It may be that face slapping is a hard limit for you.  There are many subs who do not respond well to face slapping but do respond well to other types of impact play such as flogging.  It's entirely possible that you'll never achieve subspace from slapping and that's just How It Is. 
 
What concerns me most is that your mistress doesn't seem to understand this.  When her usual program failed, she resorted to threats of "breaking" you in an unenjoyable fashion.  To me, as a dominant, this speaks poorly of her.  She doesn't appear to have the necessary skills to train you.  Domination isn't one-size-fits-all.  To me, there is more to being a good dominant than the ability to swing a flogger and hit my target.  Your mistress seems to be ignoring the mental aspect of domination.  It's possible that you will never achieve subspace because this particular dominant is not a good fit for you.  From your brief description, this seems to be the case.  Since you're supposed to be in training, you should discuss this with her at your earliest opportunity.
 
It's also possible that you will never achieve subspace because you're just not wired that way.  Like you, I've tried to take a submissive role in order to learn, but submission simply does not compute for me.  I can't get into subspace because I don't submit.  Ever.  It feels like playing an elaborate game to me, so trying to learn from the bottom up is pointless and a waste of time.  It's possible you may have the same difficulty.  If this is the case for you, then there isn't much you can do about it.  Your best bet is to simply acknowledge that you are not submissive and will never achieve subspace.  Instead, focus on the service aspects of your training and processing the physical sensations.  Learn to be the best servant and bottom (as opposed to submissive) you can be.



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