RE: Submission advice please?

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MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:34:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen1968 And how's that working out for ya? LOL [:D] quote: My advice is instead of focusing on being a good submissive, focus on being a good dominant if you want to be a good dominant. X-AKTLEE

breatheasone -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 8:39:24 PM)
domsheldon, it may seem like everyone is jumping down your throat, i'm sorry about that. It is VERY considerate of you to want to have an idea of what a s-type goes through. That means you care and thats a VERY good thing. i just think your time and energy would be better spent learning what makes YOU a good you and a good D-type

dreamerdreaming -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 9:03:44 PM)
Fast Reply: 1. I admire you for your efforts. Your heart is in the right place. 2. Face slapping is a hard limit for me, both when I was slave and now as an owner. I suspect its a common hard limit. Don't hesitate to make it one of yours, if it doesn't work for you. If you wouldn't want to dish it out either, that's fine too- just look for a sub who won't crave it. 3. Your dom isn't responding well to you. She's just imposing her will on you, and its not working for you. She's either clueless about how to adapt, or doesn't care to. D/s is not about that at all. Its about mutual fulfillment and pleasure. Being able to respond appropriately to your partner, toward that end, is essential. She's giving you a great example of what not to do. I'd thank her for the lesson, and move on to more fertile grounds. There are plenty of good doms out there who could model appropriate, responsive behavior for you... And then maybe you would be able to feel that rush of exquisite, almost unbearable beauty and sweetness, that can come with submission to a caring, thoughtful dom.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 9:19:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domsheldon My mistress's has said if I cannot get my act together in the next couple of days she will break me another way. She also promises I will not enjoy it even a little bit. Ask yourself this question....is this the way you believe the lifestyle is meant to be lived? Honestly, submission is not about being "broke" by your dominant. Both dominants and submissives are who they are because it fufills them, it brings them enjoyment. Wanting to understand "the other side" is admirable. Wanting to "break" someone is not. You submit to someone because it is what you desire to do. Submission out of fear or bullying is not really submission. SylvereApLeanan said it much better than me. But really it sounds like she is a bully who will go to any length to get her way. No one really ever "submits" to a person like that. They simply learn to do what they are told because they learn to fear the consequences if they don't. If that is the kind of relationship you hope to have with a sub, you will quickly develop a bad reputation and may wind up facing some legal consequences as well. After all, will you be getting your act together because you really WANT to please her or because she threatened and promised to do you harm? That isn't really consent is it? Good luck.

WyldHrt -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/6/2009 9:26:52 PM)
quote: 2. Face slapping is a hard limit for me, both when I was slave and now as an owner. I suspect its a common hard limit. Don't hesitate to make it one of yours, if it doesn't work for you. If you wouldn't want to dish it out either, that's fine too- just look for a sub who won't crave it. Well said! This is a hard limit for me as well. A Dom(me) who tried to force me to accept it, or worse, threatened to "break" me for not responding by turning into a puddle of submissive goo, would only be proving that they don't know the first thing about reading a submissive. I really hope that the OP doesn't see such a thing as an example of proper dominant behaviour.

RCdc -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 1:09:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domsheldon It is working out well, and the logic behind it is sound. If I am put through everything I will understand more. I am to a degree. I cannot get into the right state of mind. I am doing both training sets for the first two months I am under the ownership of one mistress whom works with subs. For the second 5 months I will be working with another mistress training as a Dom. I don't know Maybe I am just confused right now. It all happening pretty quick it's becoming more difficult by the day to process what I am learning because it comes in at such large volumes. It's very UNSOUND. It doesn't matter what you experience, or what you go through or what you endure - you will NEVER know what it means or feels like to be a female submissive woman. quote: Well this is what I know, I knew my sub liked to be whipped. I knew she liked pain, but what happens when your dominate has never been whipped before and does not know when he should let up or how hard to hard is? You know your submissive and you listen to her and talk to her. Being whipped youself means zilch and is an extremely dangerous assumption that having that experience will make you a better dominant. I will repeat - whatever you endure - you will never know what it's like to be another person and what they need. the.dark.

sinandhoney -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 2:15:25 AM)
Well this is what I know, I knew my sub liked to be whipped. I knew she liked pain, but what happens when your dominate has never been whipped before and does not know when he should let up or how hard to hard is?>> I'm a switch and I still don't agree with you train of thought. As a submissive I HATE canes, as a Top I love them. I can't process them but the man who bottoms to me can. My feelings as a submissive are not going to be the same as the next one. I've have been whipped by Doms who have never been whipped themselves but who know when I need them to back off and when I'm ready for things to amp up because they read my body language and pay attention to the signals my body gives them. If your not a submissive then submitting isn't going to give you what it gives me. Shoot not even all submissives react and get the same things out of submission.

LadyPact -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 2:40:25 AM)
There are some really great posts on this thread. Especially those made by Sylvere and the.dark. First things first. OP, if you're being 'trained' by someone who obviously hasn't taught you the difference between the words 'dominate' and 'dominant', I have far more concerns about your situation than the fact that you can not achieve sub space. Speaking of which, My honest opinion in the matter is that not everyone has that capacity. Some people will never reach sub space (or top space for that matter) for a multitude of different reasons. Brain chemistry, mental blocks, previous bad experiences, and scores of other potential possibilities exist. Out of those number of possible reasons, I can't say why it isn't happening for you. I have My suspicions, but I don't think you would appreciate My opinion on the matter. I will tell you how it works for Me. While I do have a great deal of empathy, I will not really understand what a masochist feels during play. I will not have the same sense of satisfaction that comes from being in service. I will not know what it is like to be that person on the other side of the kneel, because that's not who I am. I could play the role, but it wouldn't FEEL the same way to Me. It would be nothing more than an act. While it's possible for Me to learn some things pretending to be someone else, I'd rather be Myself.

DesFIP -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 4:05:30 AM)
Walk. She isn't training you because you can't be trained as a sub. You won't hit subspace because you aren't submissive. Many people have huge problems with face slapping, btw. It triggers anger or emotional triggers in many of us. For her to put the onus on you to come to enjoy something you don't shows how incompetent she is. As far as breaking you? That's abusive, plain and simple. You don't need to be trained as a sub, you need mentoring by a dom. Which doesn't mean you become his playtoy or sexual use object. You need to learn how to be a good dominant, which you aren't going to do from this woman who is a bad one. She may be great at s &m but she's already proved herself bad at getting into your head, getting you to want to do things that make you happy, slowly leading you over obstacles. And these things are what make you a good dominant. Being honest, trustworthy, safe to talk to. Not breaking someone's spirit and personality.

DesFIP -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 4:22:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domsheldon Well this is what I know, I knew my sub liked to be whipped. I knew she liked pain, but what happens when your dominate has never been whipped before and does not know when he should let up or how hard to hard is? He has greater pain tolerance than I do. Going by your logic I ought to enjoy things simply because they aren't that painful to him. I don't and I won't. He goes by my reaction, by my body language, by what I say, by me pulling away from him instead of yearning to be touched. He goes by my pain tolerance, not his.

RCdc -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 5:03:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact First things first. OP, if you're being 'trained' by someone who obviously hasn't taught you the difference between the words 'dominate' and 'dominant', I have far more concerns about your situation than the fact that you can not achieve sub space. I am compelled to agree and to speak out. I cannot stress how the red warning lights are flashing for me on the abuse that the OP is going through. He may not see nor accept it and more often than not, female on male abuse often gets laughed at or disregarded. But I am concerned by the post. the.dark.

Wolf2Bear -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 9:22:18 AM)
I also agree with Lady Pact and .dark. I really have to ask if the OP understands that not all dominants believe in the concept that to be a better don they must learn how to submit. That would be akin to me learning to dominate in order to be a better submissive...hell hasn't frozen over for that to happen! There is much in the OP's post which raises many concerns with me and I'd address them yet I'd simply be reacting on emotion instead of being level headed and logical.

liltala -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 1:00:21 PM)
I am going to tell you something..how you will know hwen she ha shad enough is you learn the other person. Master has never felt the kiss of a whip but knows my limitations as well if not better than me. He knows for instance if I slump forward I have had enough, if I slap my hand against the cross or stomp my foot I am processing something close to my threshold. Second I do not understand your concept of "sub space" sub space to me is an OBE that occurs when pleasure pain comingle similar to an orgasm only it lasts longer. It is the best explanation I can give you. What I think you may be discussion is a submissive/slave head space. This is focusing your mind and actions on the dominant, on serving or pleasing another. This in my experience has only been developed through trust and time. It has never occurred from a good face slapping. That does lead to that euphoric subspace. Going back to the whip, how does he know how hard? You learn the whip, you train for weeks or months before it ever touches anyone elses skin. You learn how to hit a target, to unroll toilet paper. The fact is we are all different even on various days. I cannot take a singletail session for shit on the first day of my period, I will literally cry out in agony from one strike. Other days I will find subspace, orgasm or both from it. He knows how hard I can take it from my body language and movements, the sounds I make. A good Maste rnever presumes to know what his sub is going through or how she is going to react without first learning her. You can submit to hell and back to a 100 mistresses and you will never know HER without learning HER first. be well lil.tala property of MasterGrizly

lally2 -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 1:02:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domsheldon It is working out well, and the logic behind it is sound. If I am put through everything I will understand more. I am to a degree. I cannot get into the right state of mind. I am doing both training sets for the first two months I am under the ownership of one mistress whom works with subs. For the second 5 months I will be working with another mistress training as a Dom. I don't know Maybe I am just confused right now. It all happening pretty quick it's becoming more difficult by the day to process what I am learning because it comes in at such large volumes. may i ask how its working well. from youre initial OP you say that you hated having youre face slapped and the Domme is going to 'break' you another way. im sorry, but why should she be breaking you - why should she be putting you through something you hate if you are there to learn how to be a good dominant. breaking a sub in through violence and insensitivity is not being a good dominant. You are taking her world view of Ds and adopting it as youres? i think you need to step back and really evaluate what it is youre trying to learn from this woman. im curious, what lessons are you learning from this woman. so far i would say youre learning to hate the whole submission thing. how is that going to help you to be a good dominant.

nubianmuscle -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 1:07:41 PM)
I don't have anything to really add to what has been said, because all who have posted - sub, switch, and dominant - all seem to agree; as I do, that while this form of learning may work for some, it does not seem to be working for you.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 1:26:42 PM)
~ Fast Reply ~ quote: It is working out well, and the logic behind it is sound. If I am put through everything I will understand more. I am to a degree. I cannot get into the right state of mind. I am doing both training sets for the first two months I am under the ownership of one mistress whom works with subs. For the second 5 months I will be working with another mistress training as a Dom. quote: To my dismay I got angrier and angrier each time I was slapped as opposed to what it was meant to do and make me laps into subspace. Don't these two statements; which I take are honest and given in a sincere attempt to learn and ultimately live in the 'lifestyle' point to a fundamental lifestyle 'truth'. (Put in the same quote marks because there is no fundamental truth only personal truth.) You learn nothing from the experience of being a submissive if your goal is to be a dominant because mentally, emotionally, and I would add physically; you are NOT processing the sensation nor the dynamic as would someone who is submissive. Although I never 'subbed' for any length of time, I did submit to a spanking once a long time ago, perhaps when I was as young as you are now, and fortunately for the Domme, I didn't get angry - I laughed, especially when the paddle broke on my ass. Hurt like hell, but I didn't learn anything from the experience other than I was not submissive. It was how I 'processed' the sensation. I have had many experience with submissive individuals and currently have what some would describe as a masochist as a slave for the past six years. I have no idea how she is processing her emotions or her thought process while I inflict a variety of physical, and perhaps mental/emotional 'pain'. You see 'pain' is also a relative term. she'd say I am inflicting 'pleasure'. As a sadist it matters not to me; however I know that although I may hit my hand with a new toy or attach a new clip to the skin between my thumb and pointer finger, its to give me a reference point for the sensation I am about to inflict and does nothing to tell me what it feels like for beth. So, if you are really looking for advice, and not validation to continue on the current path to enlightenment espoused by your friendly Mistresses; get out and about and pursue whatever identity you best see yourself. Talk with partners about the processing. Don't be told what you should be feeling - let it happen and enjoy, or not, what you are feeling and help it direct you to your goal. Good luck! Don't forget the most important part - have FUN! If you aren't you're not in Dom-Training, you're in 'Work-Training'.

jennileigh8182 -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 1:29:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan Domination isn't one-size-fits-all. This needed to be said again. While your dedication is admirable, OP, i think it may give you an unrealistic and undeserved belief about what is "right" or what a sub can take. We all have our own limits. Personally, i don't care for true pain. Sharp sensations, mild to moderate pain to get to heightened sensations, yes....but true pain? Nope. You'd never get much besides crying and withdrawing in fear from me with that. For me, it's about the mental domination. Being slapped would teach me nothing except to cringe when you came near me. However, lifting an eyebrow and letting an edge creep into your voice? I'd be bowing, scraping, begging, and apologizing. It's about reading your submissive. I've been with a dom in reality that couldn't read when he'd pushed too far, but i've also been just on the phone and net with one that could tell merely by the words i used or the way i structured my sentences when he was pushing a limit. I just don't see how being trained counter to your nature would help you to read your sub. I only see this as being harmful - it will lead you to think you get it, when it hasn't really done anything productive.

DesFIP -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 1:51:39 PM)
One other thing op, if you try forcibly breaking a sub of your own I can promise she will walk no matter if you 'refuse' to release her. More than that, she will tell everyone in your local community how unsafe you are. Is that the kind of reputation you want? That of being someone untrustworthy and unsafe who is uncaring about the physical and emotional feelings of their sub. Think about it.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 2:19:04 PM)
quote: ...I cannot get into the right state of mind... yeah, well...this slave has never been able to get into the "right state of mind" to dominate ANYthing, so mayhap it is more than just willpower and "training" that gets one there. personally, this slave sees no benefit in "training" exercises spent doing time on the other side of the kneel, other than to elevate a sense of frustration and anxiety, as well as to set one up for failure...wait, if the other partner was a sadist and you were serving their sadistic plesaure...then this slave gets the "exercise" completely.[;)]

sweetsub1957 -> RE: Submission advice please? (12/7/2009 2:19:20 PM)
~Fast Reply~ I only "discovered" bdsm almost fourteen months ago, but my advice is to (1) find a Dominant/mentor, rather than bottoming, (2) make sure Your sub has a safeword - AND if You decide to bottom that YOU do, (3) communicate, communicate, communicate and (4)learn to "read" Your sub. Also, (5) You will not be able to judge Your sub's limits according to Your limits when You are bottoming.....that should be obvious, as you are two different people. You will never really know what it's like or how it feels to be a submissive, just as I will never know what it's like or how it feels to be a Dominant. I can service-Top, but that's as close as I will ever get, and I will not get the satisfaction a Dominant will get from it, because it's not my chosen role. That's my [sm=2cents.gif].

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