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RE: VIDEO - Climate change threatens “a third of all ... - 12/8/2009 2:16:56 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Merc, I think you're looking at this in an either/ or situation, trying to create villains out of "environmentalists". The point I was making is that in ignoring the long term impacts of dredging, the Corps inadvertantly exposed the city to enormous damage; the environmentalists didn't cause nearly the damage that irresponsible development did. What the Corps was doing, ironically, was trying to repair the deamage of the barrier island loss, with artificial and expensive means. It would have been cheaper and better in the long run had the dredging and development been restricted in the first place.

No matter what we do, we are going to have an impact on the environment; so why not look at the long term impacts and try to make the best choices?
There is nothing wrong with industry, or development; but it is better to consider the long term impacts, taking into account the effects of environmental destruction, than it is to try and fix the damage afterward.
I reject this argument of either prosperity or a sustainable environment as a false dilemma. I think the two are connected to each other.

Animus,
You and I are on the same page - however I challenge you to point to one example of cooperation, or even compromise, coming from the environmental side?

Due to that absolutism, and until the fraud was uncovered, 'one-true way', "the debate is over"; position represented by those now at the religious retreat in Copenhagen; trench warfare has ensued.

The "long term impacts" you point to are possibilities. It should be obvious that they are possibilities but policy is being suggested which says, without foundation, that they are eventualities only avoided by a drastic, immediate change to industries as well as the standard of living. However, I could live with that attitude were it applied globally and those in a position to do so don't provide elitist exclusions like buying carbon offsets.

Perhaps my disdain for hypocrisy requires I take such a position. Personally, I don't toss trash out the window, I've bought 'green' light-bulbs (although I've since found out they are more detrimental to the environment than the old ones.), and recycle; so I hope you don't think too ill of me.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: VIDEO - Climate change threatens “a third of all ... - 12/8/2009 4:06:17 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Perhaps my disdain for hypocrisy requires I take such a position. Personally, I don't toss trash out the window, I've bought 'green' light-bulbs (although I've since found out they are more detrimental to the environment than the old ones.), and recycle; so I hope you don't think too ill of me.


On the contrary- you argue well and use logic and reason- its refreshingly rare.

Yes, there are fanatics in the green movement. What I think is interesting, is that most US corporations have grown to see the benefis of energy efficiency, and long term thinking. I recall a study done by the Greenbelt Alliance and Bank of America that concluded that suburban sprawl was, in the long run, economically unviable; basically, the infrastructure required to support low density sprawl ended up being financially unsupportable by the tax base.
The report concluded that policies designed to encourage higher densities and a more compact city footprint would end up with a better environment and more sustainable economy.
Portland, OR has for many years followed this kind of policy.

As an architect, I attended the Greenbuild convention, and was surprised to see the buy in about sustainable products and systems within the construction industry; in short, things like graywater recycling systems, porous paving, non-toxic materials are not only good environmental policy, but they produce better, more efficient buildings in the long run.

I think the environmental movement got off to a terrible start, by aligning itself with leftist politics; that presented every issue as a referendum on socialism. Generally speaking, disregarding the environment only pays off in the short run; in the long run, it ends up costing many times more.

I don't hang my hat on the global conference, or any politician-driven solutions; they can find a way to make an awful mess of about anything they touch. I even think the environmental movement put too much emphasis on a single issue like global warming, instead of the more general and easy to demonstrate problem of pollution.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: VIDEO - Climate change threatens “a third of all ... - 12/8/2009 4:18:41 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		When I’m playing poker and somebody is bluffing or lying I don’t compromise and let them win the hand. Why should environmentalists compromise? Climate change deniers are lying and I don’t care how much money they make or don‘t make because we have to protect the planet. It’s completely inappropriate for people with arguments that are suitable for fertilizing their garden to be afforded any kind of victory.

This is the real truth why they are denying global warming, it's all about making money and that's why they lie, lie, lie. They don't care if they destroy the planet as long as they keep making money.

Watch it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D-FsGny4hQ&feature=player_embedded

Front group for polluting billionaires wastes $140K on world’s dumbest global warming denier ads « Climate Progress

February 17, 2009

Brad Johnson at WonkRoom has documented how Americans for Prosperity (AFP) is a front group for billionaire polluters. In this post, first published here, he dissects what is probably the most idiotic climate inactivist ad ever seen. Perhaps I should create a new category “unintentional humor.”

As Australia burns, animals are going extinct, and freak weather devastates our nation�s heartland, the propaganda arm of Koch Industries continues its bizarre denial of global warming. The multi-billion-dollar international polluter’s Americans for Prosperity “has launched a $140,000 advertising blitz in Virginia” telling the American public that corrupt environmentalists, not billionaire right-wing oil and coal men, are manipulating Congress and the media. According to AFP, these ads “expose the hypocrisy and outrageous economic costs of so-called global warming regulations, taxes, and green energy plans.” One of these ads portrays an “eco-hypocrite” with “three homes and five cars”:


http://climateprogress.org/2009/02/17/americans-for-prosperity-ad-global-warming-denier/

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: VIDEO - Climate change threatens “a third of all ... - 12/8/2009 4:41:53 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

This is the real truth why they are denying global warming, it's all about making money and that's why they lie, lie, lie. They don't care if they destroy the planet as long as they keep making money.


Can you list the poor people who showed up to their religious retreat in Copenhagen in private jets and limos?

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: VIDEO - Climate change threatens “a third of all ... - 12/8/2009 5:36:56 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

This is the real truth why they are denying global warming, it's all about making money and that's why they lie, lie, lie. They don't care if they destroy the planet as long as they keep making money.


Can you list the poor people who showed up to their religious retreat in Copenhagen in private jets and limos?


...not to worry.   These types still live at home, have never ran a household, paid heat, utilities, property taxes and the like... because mommy and daddy do for them.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: VIDEO - Climate change threatens “a third of all ... - 12/8/2009 9:14:17 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Nature has a way of taking over. Only humanity has the inappropriate sense of self importance to belief they have, or can, control it in absolute terms or even know all there is necessary to know to have a global impact.


Not an attack aimed at you Mercnbeth for we are in agreement on the AGW nonsense. However, I find it amusing to see people talk about long term and short term impacts and species endangerment in this thread. Their perspective is woefully inhibited by hubris. If God created man in his own image he certainly took his time getting it done.

The earth has been here 5000 million years (regrets to Bishop Usher) and humankind has been here not much more than one million. The current species maybe only 50,000 years. There have been five mass species extinctions in the past 1000 million years. Some of them surly caused by meteor collisions or perhaps by alterations in Earth's orbit. The Earth keeps circling the Sun regardless.

What leads these "warming alarmest" to believe the human species is so special it will or must survive? We are part of the life chain on this planet. There is no reason to expect our species will not suffer the same fate as the dinosaurs whatever the cause. It is the history of the Planet. Life forms come and go. Here today...pfffft...gone tomorrow.

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

Tis the writing on the wall or, if you will, in the paleontological sands of time. Nature is greater than mankind or mankind's god. So, cool it folks. Enjoy the ride. Put aside your slide rules and computer programs; they are silly tools in the face of Nature's mighty force.

My money is on the palmetto roaches. Have you ever seen one of those suckers fly? lol!

Vincent



_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: VIDEO - Climate change threatens “a third of all ... - 12/8/2009 9:24:14 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

VIDEO
If the world fails to act we can see huge declines in wildlife populations around the world

Climate change threatens “a third of all species” - Climate : news, world | euronews

Even elephants cannot escape climate change. More dry periods might further shrink their living space leading to more conflict with humans over scarce resources. Wildlife and ecosystems are facing potential disaster from global warming, say environmentalists.

http://www.euronews.net/2009/12/07/climate-change-threatens-a-third-of-all-species/


So what? The Earth keeps rolling along. No one ever promised you a rose garden. Species come and go. Here today, gone tomorrow. Ooops, there goes another one. Hey, here's a new one. There are no guarantees for Life on this or any planet.

Place your bets on the flying palmetto roach, folks. They will survive! Roaches Rule. roflmao!


Vincent

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 47
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