RE: Sex vs Love (Full Version)

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LadyPact -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/11/2009 10:53:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

It's honestly not that I can't relate. I can. Just the same as I certainly understand those who chose not to participate in scenes with anyone but the person they are attached to for S/m. It's what works for them, so frankly My opinion on the other side of the question doesn't matter that much.


Lady P -
I was hoping to generate that perspective and make the comparison between casual sex and casual play. Not saying one is better/worse than the other, but hoping to get an appreciation for the possibly that both polarities exist.

Obviously either position requires a bit of rationalization and a history. Mine comes from having so much casual sex that it almost took on the quality of a bodily function. It was about that time, in college, that my something more, came from 'discovering' WIITWD.

Now it just so happened that source of information, long before the days of the internet, didn't have such a clean line between sex and S&M. This was NYC in the late 70's early 80's; orgies were breaking out all the time! Clubs were like the appropriately named 'Dante's Inferno' resembled a few of the rings of hell. In my personal life, I noticed I got a lot more out of sex when it included a large dose of WIITWD. It became my source of intimacy. It still is.

Now the idea of going to an orgy and getting involved with those associated activities is still a whole lot of fun! Frankly its a lot easier to participate in that type of exchange 'casually'. The need, or I should say MY need, to connect with someone emotionally and mentally when it comes to any WIITWD intercourse requires a more intimate knowledge and connection with them. Not necessarily 'love' but at minimum a 'connection' and a common desire to see where that connection will lead when taken through the path of WIITWD. The most likely destination for that path is a degree of intimacy that, again for me, leads to a physically sexual exchange of some sort. For me, the sex act begins with a firm grip on a wrist, the attachment of a cuff to a wrist, a clip to a nipple, a smack to a ass, or a simple command like; "go over there, strip, and kneel".

I know I'm a 'freak'.

Merc,

For some reason, I just can't read any reply in which you use the word "orgy" without getting a chuckle.  I can't imagine why.  [8D]

Seriously, I do appreciate your perspective.  I happen to agree with your explanation of preferring a connection in regards to S/m.  I tend to think that is why play that I conduct is most intimate with clip, those with whom I form bonds of friendship or the like are good, but not quite at that same level, and those that I have no connection with fall under that.  In a sense, that could be compared to sex.  Just like I wouldn't say that I wouldn't have an orgasm from casual sex, I couldn't sit here and say that I don't achieve space just because I'm not emotionally bonded to the bottom that I happen to be playing with.

I think that goes back to what My understanding is of many who have replied to this thread.  They want that connection and really aren't interested in either activity without it.  In My particular case, it could be very possible that, because I have the intimacy and love in My primary relationship, just not the S/m, that I don't see it as a requirement for Myself.  Not to mention, the casual play has certain...... benefits...... when I've gone out, played, and come home in a heightened state of arousal.  My other half, and even My boy for that matter, would never tell you that there isn't a positive in it for them.

Do I think that the way I conduct My interests would work for everyone?  No, I certainly don't.  In fact, I happen to think that I'm in the minority.  At the same time, you really can't argue with success.

My best to beth.  I hope to see you in person again soon.




MasterIronwood -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/11/2009 12:06:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Honestly, I am a bit puzzled by the question.

I have to ask the OP- is your problem that you aren't getting laid enough?
Or that you find women that you do lay are constantly falling in love with you? Really? Thats a problem for you?

There are a lot of good comments here, but I would be curious to hear your thoughts.


I am at a loss as to why you should be puzzled. In 60 plus years of dealing with women, I have noticed that they (for the most part) don't see sex and love as separate things and I was wondering what views existed on CM regarding this issue.

The point of view that seems to me to be the most logical is that the situation is wired into the female because (in the past) she needed a provider and protector. In most civilized societies today this is no longer the case and as some here have pointed out, it appears that women may slowly be changing their view on the issue.

Some of the views expressed here have been both surprising and enlightening and I wish to thank those who have made a serious effort to respond to the question I posed.




HisSweetElysium -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/11/2009 1:23:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisSweetElysium

I am capable of it, going so far to have fuck buddies when I am single.  People who are admittedly hot,  with nice *ahem* assets, but who I'd be mortified to show up with in public as my significant other b/c they're dumb as a box of rocks, or bore me to tears unless there's nakedness involved. 




I wouldn't screw anyone I am embarrassed to say I screwed. However, this doesn't mean I have to be in love with them. There is a middle ground.


Never said I was embarrassed to have screwed them, but I wouldn't want a relationship with them because we're not well matched intellectually or personally and anyone who knew me well would think so as well.  Maybe a trivial difference to some, but significant to me. I'm not psyched to show up at a family event with a guy 10 yrs my junior, however for a casual get together, as a friend of mine, if this particular tall tattooed and well endowed man finds himself single and I do too, where's the harm? 

I also want to qualify that none of this pertains  to D/S, just sex, as the OP posed.  I don't do D/S outside of a  relationship, never as I learned this lesson the hard way.. I can't handle the emotions that come out of it.




Justme696 -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/11/2009 1:25:08 PM)

In 60 years you propably must have noticed that female thoughts, opinions and actions changed.
You also must have witnessed emancipation.

Males used to fuck females...now they fuck us..lol




ValyraenAndAqua -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/11/2009 3:25:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisSweetElysium

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisSweetElysium

I am capable of it, going so far to have fuck buddies when I am single.  People who are admittedly hot,  with nice *ahem* assets, but who I'd be mortified to show up with in public as my significant other b/c they're dumb as a box of rocks, or bore me to tears unless there's nakedness involved. 




I wouldn't screw anyone I am embarrassed to say I screwed. However, this doesn't mean I have to be in love with them. There is a middle ground.


Never said I was embarrassed to have screwed them, but I wouldn't want a relationship with them because we're not well matched intellectually or personally and anyone who knew me well would think so as well.  Maybe a trivial difference to some, but significant to me. I'm not psyched to show up at a family event with a guy 10 yrs my junior, however for a casual get together, as a friend of mine, if this particular tall tattooed and well endowed man finds himself single and I do too, where's the harm? 

I also want to qualify that none of this pertains  to D/S, just sex, as the OP posed.  I don't do D/S outside of a  relationship, never as I learned this lesson the hard way.. I can't handle the emotions that come out of it.



I agree that I will screw people I'm not interested in dating. But I still wouldn't screw anyone I'm embaressed to be seen with. Some of my fuck buddies of past attended our wedding.

Just the way I do things and my response does apply to to d/s as well. I scene casually and wouldn't scene with someone that I knew I would be embaressed to be seen with. Some of my play partners were also at our wedding. [:)]

-Aqua




breatheasone -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/11/2009 3:56:16 PM)

See i think the operative word in the phrase "fuck buddy" is the word buddy, that implies friend. If someone is my friend, i love them. (not saying "in" love)




ValyraenAndAqua -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/11/2009 4:00:22 PM)

I was using the term as a quick shorthand. Not everyone I fuck is someone I'm friends with. I have, in fact, had sex with people I wasn't interested in being friends with. But I still wouldn't be embaressed to be seen with them.

Now only the people who qualify as "fuck buddies" made it to the wedding cause well... I wouldn't invite someone to my wedding who wasn't a friend but these aren't friendships that were established before the sex. The sexual attraction was there, we fucked and pleasently found out that we could also be good friends.

- Aqua




Drifa -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/11/2009 4:09:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone
i have heard of those! May i ask...is there penetration involved with a sybian?


It all depends on what you attach to it. There's a flat attachment that's external stimulation only.

The Sybian is a quonset-hut shaped "saddle" with a powerful vibrator that can vibrate and/or rotate, and the control's on a long enough cord that you or your partner can fine tune the dials. You control whatever attachments get hooked up. The biggest problem is that they are pricey, but for us it was worthwhile. 

Let's see... a little Googling found a good pic of the various attachments on (of all things!) a Sybian rental site (renting sex toys... just eeeww!)

I will admit that being PUT on the thing with my partner supervising and maybe nibbling or administering some sensation play is ever so much better than solo use. It's the only vibrator I've ever had that I can get off with on my own, though, and that's nice for those dang looong weeks sometimes when my Lady has to travel out of town.

It won't replace having a partner, but it's a pretty fun stand-in.

I've been to a play party where a couple of folks brought Sybians and the ladies had Sybian races, and much fun was had by all.











breatheasone -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/11/2009 4:26:37 PM)

Thanks Drifa, and those are good links thanks for taking the time. And omg seriously? Renting? Ewww indeed.[:'(]




Sfortzando -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/11/2009 6:51:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterIronwood


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Honestly, I am a bit puzzled by the question.

I have to ask the OP- is your problem that you aren't getting laid enough?
Or that you find women that you do lay are constantly falling in love with you? Really? Thats a problem for you?

There are a lot of good comments here, but I would be curious to hear your thoughts.


I am at a loss as to why you should be puzzled. In 60 plus years of dealing with women, I have noticed that they (for the most part) don't see sex and love as separate things and I was wondering what views existed on CM regarding this issue.

The point of view that seems to me to be the most logical is that the situation is wired into the female because (in the past) she needed a provider and protector. In most civilized societies today this is no longer the case and as some here have pointed out, it appears that women may slowly be changing their view on the issue.

Some of the views expressed here have been both surprising and enlightening and I wish to thank those who have made a serious effort to respond to the question I posed.



Perhaps you should stop 'dealing' with women and start engaging them.




AquaticSub -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/11/2009 8:04:57 PM)

~Fast Reply~

I'm honestly curious why people are so quick to insult the OP. In my limited years of dealing/interacting/engaging/what-the-flying-evering with women, I have also noticed that many women either can't/won't seperate the two. He asked a question. He didn't say they were terrible women, he simply made an observation and asked for feedback.

I suspect if a woman posted about how she has noticed she has trouble getting men to mix sex and love, she would get far less insults.




alittleevil -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/12/2009 8:49:01 AM)

Sex is more fun than golf and i'm better at sex than at Chess :-).  I don't attach any morality to sex itself and i don't have to love someone to have fun with them.  In all honesty, i've never noticed any difference in good sex for the sheer fun of it and good sex with someone i love.

Peace,
aj




Lucienne -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/12/2009 9:27:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I'm honestly curious why people are so quick to insult the OP.
...
I suspect if a woman posted about how she has noticed she has trouble getting men to mix sex and love, she would get far less insults.


I think you are correct. As for the snippier responses... I wonder if it isn't a wee bit of "lookism" in play. Yeah, I know that's kind of a dumb word, but many people do tend to discriminate based on physical attractiveness. I suspect that if the OP had been a young bohunk, he would've gotten a lot more "I'll separate the two for you, honey."

I didn't actually contribute to the thread previously, but I'll confess to reading the OP, looking at his picture and chuckling to myself that at his age he really should focus on the love side. (sorry OP!). I have no problem separating love and sex, but when I'm just fucking someone, he tends to be a younger, fresher specimen. And, for the most part, we all need to compensate for slacking physiques with personality/experience as we age. It makes sense to me that when you're open to sex without emotional attachment, you're more likely to have it with someone who you find physically attractive but not emotionally compatible. I enjoy sex for its own sake, but it is kind of shallow.

Maybe I'm the only one reading this thread who had the more shallow asshole response, but I suspect not.




AnimusRex -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/12/2009 10:51:52 AM)

Aquatic-

You raise a good point- in my first response, I had assumed this was another "why won't women just fuck me without needing sweet talk and seduction first" type of questions.
I assumed that, because that is a constant refrain heard in Manworld. Except it is usually only heard in the Youngman department of Manworld. Most of the men who move on to Grownman area of Manworld get over that, and get on with the business of life.

Then upon further reading, and seeing the OP's reply to my second question, I realize he is merely asking why women are the way women are.

Which is a fair question to ask. He isn't looking for fuck buddies, or complaining that women are too clingy, just asking a question.

The answer to which is who the hell knows.
One may as well ask why do women speak in secret code to each other?
Why do women inevitably have a weird love/hate relationship with their mothers, and daughters?
Why, oh why, do they insist on talking to us about problems, but don't want us to fix them?
Come to think of it, why do they insist on talking so much in the first place?

I really don't know. It just is.

But what I have observed is, the same weird voodoo that makes them incapable of separating love and sex, is exactly what makes them so appealing in the first place. I have been to swing parties, gang bang parties, play parties; I have had casual sex in cars, motels, public parks, even atop a ferris wheel once, and whatever fun and enjoyment there was, wears off after about an hour.




Hierodule -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/12/2009 11:00:50 AM)

* attempts to book flight from O'hare to Manworld *




lilmisssubmiss -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/12/2009 11:54:05 AM)

Could be your background? I was taught you only have sex if you truly love someone... I'm a virgin because I kind of want to feel he is the right guy for me.. I just think i'll be more comfortable if it's that person and it'll mean a lot more to me. No way would I just have sex if I wasn't in love. They both go together in so many ways. Period, for me anyways.




lilmisssubmiss -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/12/2009 11:55:18 AM)

But, hell.. I know a lot of girls especially girls around my age who will fuck and not give a damn about the guy..

I'm pretty much the outcast when it comes to having sex and feelings towards it...

So I think it really just depends on the person.




Justme696 -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/12/2009 12:06:35 PM)

quote:

But, hell.. I know a lot of girls especially girls around my age who will fuck and not give a damn about the guy..


we, the guys, would like some adresses....lol




kasumi -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/12/2009 2:22:25 PM)

They can be separate things all on their own but I've found that one enhances the other. So, why separate love and sex when you can have them both?

Loveless sex has NEVER been as enjoyable (for me, anyway) as the sex that comes with a committed, caring relationship. This may be because I'm one of the women of the world that finds orgasm difficult to achieve - though much easier if I'm with a man who gives a crap about me and not just his penis or his reputation.

After all of my experiences, I'm just not interested in casual, unattached sex anymore. It pales heavily in comparison with sex bundled with love.




eyesopened -> RE: Sex vs Love (12/12/2009 4:27:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterIronwood


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Honestly, I am a bit puzzled by the question.

I have to ask the OP- is your problem that you aren't getting laid enough?
Or that you find women that you do lay are constantly falling in love with you? Really? Thats a problem for you?

There are a lot of good comments here, but I would be curious to hear your thoughts.


I am at a loss as to why you should be puzzled. In 60 plus years of dealing with women, I have noticed that they (for the most part) don't see sex and love as separate things and I was wondering what views existed on CM regarding this issue.

The point of view that seems to me to be the most logical is that the situation is wired into the female because (in the past) she needed a provider and protector. In most civilized societies today this is no longer the case and as some here have pointed out, it appears that women may slowly be changing their view on the issue.

Some of the views expressed here have been both surprising and enlightening and I wish to thank those who have made a serious effort to respond to the question I posed.



I clearly see that females DO see sex and love as totally different things.  Most females I have met have made the decision not to have sex without love.  Truth be told, nearly any female could get laid just by walking into a bar, club, sporting event, what have you and simply yell "Hey! Any you guys wanna fuck?"  With getting laid being so effortless, totally without challenge or skill, there's no bragging rights, no nothing.  Why bother?  In years gone by, not quite so dangerous but with all the deadly std's why fuck for fuck's sake?  A female insists on love with sex for the same reason a dog licks his balls.  Because she can.

Even with my fuck-buddies, there had to be more than just the sex because frankly, my dildo doesn't give a shit if I shaved my legs or not.




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