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"One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 2:33:30 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Freedom of the Press!
Discuss.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 2:37:20 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Freedom of the Press!
Discuss.


Good topic Popeye.....an English concept by the way.

Unfortunately it's an illusion. You will never hear of some of the stuff that your or my government sanctions...quite simply because the audience doesn't want to hear it and they have papers to sell.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 4:54:03 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		That doesnt make its freedom an illusion.

A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy. If Al Gore had never invented the internet and all information was supplied by the MSM we would certainly be doomed to socialism. We may be anyway. Its hard to vote out a party that is giving almost half the country a free ride. Eventually even they will realize that "income redistribution" cannot be sustained indefinitely, but then it will be too late, as we become a third world/third rate country.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 6:10:43 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

That doesnt make its freedom an illusion.

A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy. If Al Gore had never invented the internet and all information was supplied by the MSM we would certainly be doomed to socialism. We may be anyway. Its hard to vote out a party that is giving almost half the country a free ride. Eventually even they will realize that "income redistribution" cannot be sustained indefinitely, but then it will be too late, as we become a third world/third rate country.


I love the ideology you keep championing, WD. Of course, the policies that have redistributed wealth for the last thirty years have nothing to do with the troubles we are having. Taking wealth from the poor and middle class isn't harmful. It's a good thing. Trying to change things so that the middle class can survive and grow is socialism.

If only we had let the corporations and bankers and other wealthy people do what we want, things would be different. Oh, wait! We did. And here we are.


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 6:25:06 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Freedom of the Press!
Discuss.


It's a "load the guns" issue, Popeye.  What more do you need to know?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 6:49:57 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Freedom of the Press!
Discuss.


It's a "load the guns" issue, Popeye.  What more do you need to know?


We actually agree on something, Heretic. Of all our freedoms, freedom of speech is the one that makes all the others possible.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 7:23:38 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy.


Agreed.  In today's world, I doubt that an impartial press is possible, so I like the current practice of having commentators from both sides of the spectrum.

It's ironic that willbe used the word "free" in the normal usage of the word at the same time that Rupert Murdoch is agitating to get the public to pay for online content that has always been without charge.  If we do have to pay for news, does that change things?  An informed people is vital for a democracy - will having to pay for content be inimical to that?


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 7:24:52 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

That doesnt make its freedom an illusion.

A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy. If Al Gore had never invented the internet and all information was supplied by the MSM we would certainly be doomed to socialism. We may be anyway. Its hard to vote out a party that is giving almost half the country a free ride. Eventually even they will realize that "income redistribution" cannot be sustained indefinitely, but then it will be too late, as we become a third world/third rate country.


I love the ideology you keep championing, WD. Of course, the policies that have redistributed wealth for the last thirty years have nothing to do with the troubles we are having. Taking wealth from the poor and middle class isn't harmful. It's a good thing. Trying to change things so that the middle class can survive and grow is socialism.

If only we had let the corporations and bankers and other wealthy people do what we want, things would be different. Oh, wait! We did. And here we are.




There have been no "policies that redistribute wealth FROM the poor and middle class.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 7:28:42 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy.


Agreed.  In today's world, I doubt that an impartial press is possible, so I like the current practice of having commentators from both sides of the spectrum.

It's ironic that willbe used the word "free" in the normal usage of the word at the same time that Rupert Murdoch is agitating to get the public to pay for online content that has always been without charge.  If we do have to pay for news, does that change things?  An informed people is vital for a democracy - will having to pay for content be inimical to that?



I don't understand your point. Newspapers aren't free. "Free TV" isnt free. Cable TV isnt free. What is the problem with actually trying to make money from a business, even if that business is news?

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 7:32:51 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I don't understand your point. Newspapers aren't free. "Free TV" isnt free. Cable TV isnt free. What is the problem with actually trying to make money from a business, even if that business is news?


I'm distinguishing between user fees and paid advertising.

Free TV and online newspapers are supported by advertising.  The proposal is to add user fees as a second revenue source.  I just dislike the idea of paying for content, although I do have to agree that a lot of current content such as cable and newspapers are paid for.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 7:37:53 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I don't understand your point. Newspapers aren't free. "Free TV" isnt free. Cable TV isnt free. What is the problem with actually trying to make money from a business, even if that business is news?


I'm distinguishing between user fees and paid advertising.

Free TV and online newspapers are supported by advertising.  The proposal is to add user fees as a second revenue source.  I just dislike the idea of paying for content, although I do have to agree that a lot of current content such as cable and newspapers are paid for.



Then don't pay for it. There will be plenty of blogs and boards that skirt copyright laws. And one of the big benefits if a lot of sites begin to charge is that we won't have to put up with non-stop cut and pastes from Brain.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 7:42:14 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Then don't pay for it. There will be plenty of blogs and boards that skirt copyright laws.



You're right.  In addition to the sources that you cite that will skirt copyrights, there will be plenty of other sources that are lawful and free as well.

I just got bothered by Murdoch's stance and triggered on the word 'free' when you used it.




_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 7:48:13 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Then don't pay for it. There will be plenty of blogs and boards that skirt copyright laws.



You're right.  In addition to the sources that you cite that will skirt copyrights, there will be plenty of other sources that are lawful and free as well.

I just got bothered by Murdoch's stance and triggered on the word 'free' when you used it.





Well, at risk of actually agreeing with SoT on something, I don't think anyone else thinks of a free press in that way. I also don't characterize something as "free" (in the cost sense) just because you don't reach into your wallet or write a check for it. Having to sit through commericials, click off pop ups, find an article hiding in the middle of a maze of "free offers" all have a cost.

The closest thing we have to a non-pay news medium is NPR I suppose. (I don't know for sure, since its so dreadfully boring I stopped listening to it decades ago).

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/18/2009 9:19:09 PM   
MichiganHeadmast


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Freedom of the Press!
Discuss.


I would rank it pretty equally with all those rights enumerated in the First Amendment.  Backed by those rights enshrined in the Second Amendment.  They all go together.

The Founders, for any faults they might have had, got a lot of things right.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/19/2009 12:29:05 AM   
Silence8


Posts: 833
Joined: 11/2/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Freedom of the Press!
Discuss.


Sounds like a good idea. Let's try it!


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/19/2009 12:31:14 AM   
Silence8


Posts: 833
Joined: 11/2/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

That doesnt make its freedom an illusion.

A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy. If Al Gore had never invented the internet and all information was supplied by the MSM we would certainly be doomed to socialism. We may be anyway. Its hard to vote out a party that is giving almost half the country a free ride. Eventually even they will realize that "income redistribution" cannot be sustained indefinitely, but then it will be too late, as we become a third world/third rate country.


I love the ideology you keep championing, WD. Of course, the policies that have redistributed wealth for the last thirty years have nothing to do with the troubles we are having. Taking wealth from the poor and middle class isn't harmful. It's a good thing. Trying to change things so that the middle class can survive and grow is socialism.

If only we had let the corporations and bankers and other wealthy people do what we want, things would be different. Oh, wait! We did. And here we are.




There have been no "policies that redistribute wealth FROM the poor and middle class.


Confundo! What... where am I... yes, uh, I believe that.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/19/2009 1:27:14 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

That doesnt make its freedom an illusion.

 

I'd say journalism restricted by business interests and the concept of 'in the national interest' amounts to less than freedom of expression. There will be intentions and actions in Iraq and Afghanistan that will never see the light of journalism day due to the aforementioned priniciples.

From a reader's point of view - I'd quite like an independent report of events - that is my idea of a free press.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy.



Nice rhetoric......yet there is far more to a democracy than the freedom to choose which newspaper or which pair of jeans you should buy.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/19/2009 3:00:54 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

That doesnt make its freedom an illusion.

 

I'd say journalism restricted by business interests and the concept of 'in the national interest' amounts to less than freedom of expression. There will be intentions and actions in Iraq and Afghanistan that will never see the light of journalism day due to the aforementioned priniciples.

From a reader's point of view - I'd quite like an independent report of events - that is my idea of a free press.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

A free and responsible press is essential to a democracy.



Nice rhetoric......yet there is far more to a democracy than the freedom to choose which newspaper or which pair of jeans you should buy.


There hasn't been an "independent report of events" since the Gutenberg press. Journalism has always had the biases of the owners and reporters embedded, however unintentionally. The reader has always had to evaluate what he read in that context, so your idea of a free press has never existed. Free means free from the influence of government, period.

Rhetoric? Show me any country that doesn't have a press free from the government, and I guarantee that it's citizens are repressed in virtually all areas.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/19/2009 9:22:13 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Since this thread is about media I thought you might be interested in these under reported stories. I don’t know why these stories are under reported maybe somebody can shed light on the matter; maybe it has something to do with making money.

TOP 10 UNDERREPORTED STORIES

1. Continuing Segregation Is Hurting U.S. Competitiveness

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495,00.html#ixzz0a3wiYJ5s


2. Nigerian Blood for Oil

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944500,00.html



3. The Maoist Insurgency in India

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944502,00.html



4. America: Barring Foreign Brains?

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944505,00.html



5. Ethnic Unrest in Iran

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944508,00.html


6. The Deadlier Flu Virus: When Pigs Fly

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944511,00.html


7. Obama Allows Faith-Based 'Discrimination'

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944513,00.html


8. Who Owns the Mekong?

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944515,00.html


9. Oops! U.S. Nuclear Secrets Are Posted Online

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944517,00.html


10. Experimenting with Children

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1945379_1944495_1944519,00.html


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: "One of our most precious freedoms". - 12/19/2009 9:36:43 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Journalism has always had the biases of the owners and reporters embedded, however unintentionally.



We're talking about two entirely different things.

Everything you/I/the next man writes is underpinned by our personal experiences. That's a given.

The bed housing big business/the media/government is an altogether different matter. This is not a matter of personal experience - but rather a matter of keeping everything neat and tidy so the audience don't get above their collective station.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 20
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