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Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 6:33:29 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote (Update1)

Dec. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Legislation calling for the most sweeping overhaul of the U.S. health-care system in more than four decades survived a crucial test vote, allowing it to move toward final Senate passage later this week.

All 60 members of the Democratic caucus voted to curtail debate on the $871 billion measure against united opposition from Senate Republicans, who say the bill would raise taxes, hurt insurers and widen the federal deficit. Democrats scheduled the 1 a.m. vote to thwart Republican tactics aimed at preventing final passage before Christmas.

Barring surprise defections, the vote clears the way for passage by Dec. 24. The Senate must then draft a compromise with the House, which approved its own bill on Nov. 7. Both measures are designed to cover tens of millions of uninsured Americans and attempt to curb rising medical expenditures.

................

More Votes Ahead

The battle in the Senate isn’t over for Democratic leaders. They will be required to muster 60 votes for each of two other procedural votes before the Senate can agree on final passage, possibly on Christmas Eve. Democrats need only a simple majority of the 100-member Senate to pass the legislation. Today’s test vote to overcome a Republican filibuster was the most important, as the same 60-member bloc of 58 Democrats and two independents are expected to stick together to support final passage.

..............

For Nelson, Democrats crafted a compromise that would segregate government funds so they aren’t used to pay for abortions while also requiring the new exchanges to offer at least one plan that doesn’t cover the procedure. Nelson also won an agreement that additional Medicaid costs to his state would be absorbed by the federal government.

.........

No Public Option

To win over Nelson and other moderates, Reid eliminated a government-run insurance program, or public option, designed to compete with private insurers. As an alternative, the U.S. Office of Personnel Management, which oversees benefits for federal workers and members of Congress, would contract with private insurers to offer multistate plans on the exchange.

Reid raised a Medicare payroll tax increase to 0.9 percent, from 0.5 percent earlier, on individuals earning more than $200,000 or families making more than $250,000. And he dropped plans for a tax on cosmetic surgery, dubbed the Bo-tax, in favor of a 10 percent levy on indoor tanning salons.

Reid also boosted penalties for companies that don’t provide health insurance. Any company with more than 50 employees could face a penalty of $750 per worker, multiplied by the total number of full-time workers it employs, if just one obtains subsidized coverage through an exchange. That is up from a penalty of $400 in an earlier draft.

.............

House-Senate Talks

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus said House and Senate negotiators would work to come up with a compromise bill before Obama gives his State of the Union address in late January or early February. Baucus said he expects the biggest issues in the talks to be the public option and the different tax proposals each chamber used to fund the bill.

Ultimately, Baucus said, the final bill will have to more closely resemble the Senate version if it is to be enacted.

“They’re realists,” Baucus said of House members as he left the chamber after the vote. “You don’t get 60, you don’t get a bill. Passing health care is much more important than falling on their swords.”


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a6PdxxCjF4ak&pos=8

Im off to work. Will read your reactions tonight.

_____________________________

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Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.
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RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 10:52:49 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Congratulations on a tremendous victory!

Despite the $2.5 trillion cost, an estimated 23 million Americans would still be left without health insurance.

Georgia and most states will face billions of dollars in massive unfunded mandates to cover the cost of the proposed expansion of Medicaid contained in the bill. However, in order to win the vote of Senator Ben Nelson, D-Neb., Reid inserted a provision in the bill that says the federal government would cover the cost of all new Medicaid beneficiaries in Nebraska, saving that state tens of millions of dollars.

CBO says the Senate compromise bill will "yield a net reduction in federal deficits of $132 billion" over the next decade. A study of the House and an earlier version of the Senate bill -- conducted by the Lewin Group (which is owned by UnitedHealth Care) and commissioned by the Peterson Foundation -- backs that up.CBO says the bill will also increase the federal spending commitment by "about $200 billion over that 10-year period, driven primarily by the gross cost of the coverage expansions (including increases in both outlays and tax credits).� And there's the rub -- the bill right now is paid for by $518.5 billion in tax increases and $471 billion in Medicare cuts. Based on Congress's past behavior, you can reasonably wonder if some of those taxes will be eliminated, and many of those Medicare cuts will be undone, as with the "doc fix" -- reductions in Medicare payments to physicians that Congress once voted for, and has since voted to undo time after time.

And while Congress has specified deep cuts in Medicare reimbursements for medical service providers, if implemented as intended, the cuts in physician payments will induce more doctors to treat fewer Medicare-funded patients. Conversely, if the cuts in doctor pay are rescinded, the new law will provide another huge addition to the national debt. And many of the proposed tax increases may also prove politically infeasible, such as the hike in the Medicare payroll tax, and an array of taxes on medical devices, prescription brand drugs and insurance companies which will only inflate insurance premiums.

FREE?

Require that most Americans have a minimum level of health insurance or else pay a penalty.House versionIncludes mandate.Penalty: Tax equal to 2.5 percent of adjusted gross income over certain thresholds ($9,350 for individuals, $18,700 for couples).Exemptions: American Indians, people with religious objections and people who can show financial hardship.Senate versionIncludes mandate.Penalty: $95 a year per person in 2014; $350 in 2015; $750 or 2 percent of a household�s income, whichever is greater, in 2016 and beyond. No penalty if the cost of cheapest available plan exceeds 8 percent of household income.Exemptions: American Indians, people with religious objections and people who can show financial hardship.

The choice of a $95 penalty a year or a few thousand of buying insurance coverage....ummmmm let me think about that...At least until the insurance coverage police start breaking down the doors and arresting the non-compliance individuals. However, maybe it will inspire a great novel about the struggles of people hiding the uninsured under floor boards trying to escape mandated fines and imprisonment for not following the government mandate to pay.


NO COST FOR HEALTH CARE SERVICES?

Require insurance plans to offer a minimum package of health insurance benefits, to be defined by the federal government.House versionThe basic plan would cover 70 percent of the cost of the benefits. Consumers would pay the remainder, in deductibles, co-payments and other charges.The exchange would offer three other benefit plans, covering up to 95 percent of costs.Senate versionThe basic plan would cover 60 percent of the cost of the benefits.The exchanges would offer three other benefit plans, covering 70 percent to 90 percent of costs. The Congressional Budget Office says policies bought in the individual insurance market now average 55 percent to 60 percent.

UNIVERSAL?

10-year estimates of the cost of the legislation from the Congressional Budget Office.House versionAbout $1.052 trillion. Expected to reduce deficits by $139 billion.36 million people would gain coverage, leaving 18 million uninsured.Senate version$871 billion. Expected to reduce projected federal budget deficits by $132 billion.31 million people would gain coverage, leaving 23 million uninsured.

I thought there were only 30 Million total 'uninsured'. They are using different numbers now - but spending a Trillion dollars, creating a regulatory bureaucracy, cutting payments to Medicare doctors and requiring people who can, but do not buy medical coverage currently, still results in this Congress stipulating to 18 - 23 Million uninsured? What an accomplishment! Who said this Congress and Administration can't do anything!

Obama's plan amounts to this: partial coverage of the uninsured; modest improvements (possibly) in their health; sizable budgetary costs worsening a bleak outlook; significant, unpredictable changes in insurance markets; weak spending control. This is a bad bargain. Health benefits are overstated, long-term economic costs understated. The country would be the worse for this legislation's passage. What it's become is an exercise in political symbolism: Obama's self-indulgent crusade to seize the liberal holy grail of "universal coverage." What it's not is leadership.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 6:07:06 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		As far as the numbers changing of the uninsured... i expected as much. Cobra just increased, those who were on it can no longer afford it. Its been mentioned before.

As far as the rest, these were the same sources proclaiming the death panels, killing granny, ect. Its the way its going to be. I dont like this version, but its a hell of a sight better than what we have now.

Curious... why do you care? Your abdicating to a new country, remember?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 7:38:55 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Curious... why do you care? Your abdicating to a new country, remember?
Cause until them I'm still paying for them. Besides, I'm going to continue to expose the lies and special interest paybacks no matter where I live or reside as a citizen. Exposing fraud and and waste has always been a hobby of mine and will continue to be.

The fact that you had to pick on that and nothing else in the reply speaks to the validity of how useless and unproductive this Bill is.

Also - unless they did another survey of uninsured - the Senate and Congress lied or is lying about the numbers. However many there are, or were, this solution requires them to pay for something they either didn't want to buy, or as a co-payment, something they are't paying for now.

Shouldn't there be dancing in the streets?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 7:45:14 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		AGAIN

No one wanted "free healthcare"

Thats another lie you chose to believe... among the mahy others over the course of time of this health care bill. i just wished to god they would pass the damn thing so you would quit whining about the cost, which you WONT feel, unless you are lying about moving out of the country... the costs wont be felt for some time... unless you are going to.. say.. tanning beds.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 7:48:25 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

Nelson also won an agreement that additional Medicaid costs to his state would be absorbed by the federal government.


absorbed in perpetuity....forever.

_____________________________

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 7:52:21 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I have been listening to some of the coverage.
I am not ashamed to say, I don't really understand what the hell is going on.
 
I just hope this won't affect people on Medicare.
Why is this just so confusing?

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 7:54:04 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I have been listening to some of the coverage.
I am not ashamed to say, I don't really understand what the hell is going on.
 
I just hope this won't affect people on Medicare.
Why is this just so confusing?
,

There are two choices:

People on medicare will get fucked.
They lied that Medicare will really be cut, and the bill isnt close to revenue neutral.

There is no middle ground.

(in reply to MzMia)
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RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 7:54:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		It all boils down to votes, MzMia, and political power. Allowing this bill to pass would hurt the Republicans who want to be back in power. Passing this bill, in any form, is considered a necessity by some Democrats. In the end, both sides will be screwed... and they arent smart enough to realize it yet.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 7:56:04 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It all boils down to votes, MzMia, and political power. Allowing this bill to pass would hurt the Republicans who want to be back in power. Passing this bill, in any form, is considered a necessity by some Democrats. In the end, both sides will be screwed... and they arent smart enough to realize it yet.


You got the first comment wrong. Allowing this bill to pass will hurt the country...until it can be rolled back because it guarantees that the Dems are out of power by 2012.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 7:56:11 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
How can they possibly cut five hundred billion from medicare and not have it affect medicare recipients.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I have been listening to some of the coverage.
I am not ashamed to say, I don't really understand what the hell is going on.
 
I just hope this won't affect people on Medicare.
Why is this just so confusing?


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to MzMia)
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RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 8:01:02 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It all boils down to votes, MzMia, and political power. Allowing this bill to pass would hurt the Republicans who want to be back in power. Passing this bill, in any form, is considered a necessity by some Democrats. In the end, both sides will be screwed... and they arent smart enough to realize it yet.


Thank you tazzy, you should be a politcial reporter.
If both sides and all of us will be screwed, why pass anything right now?
What is the damn hurry?
Wait, and re-write the bill, and do it the right way!
We are all going to be on Medicare one day, if we live long enough.
Don't mess things up for the older folks!!!!!


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 8:03:46 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It all boils down to votes, MzMia, and political power. Allowing this bill to pass would hurt the Republicans who want to be back in power. Passing this bill, in any form, is considered a necessity by some Democrats. In the end, both sides will be screwed... and they arent smart enough to realize it yet.


Thank you tazzy, you should be a politcial reporter.
If both sides and all of us will be screwed, why pass anything right now?
What is the damn hurry?
Wait, and re-write the bill, and do it the right way!
We are all going to be on Medicare one day, if we live long enough.
Don't mess things up for the older folks!!!!!




It all boil down to votes MzMia. The Dems know they will lose their lock on the Senate, and maybe on the House, next year. If they dont shove something, anything, down our throats now, they risk not taking any steps at all. They would rather pass an atrocious bill that does absolutely nothing to address the real health care issues, and hope they can incrementally take over all of health care.

(in reply to MzMia)
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RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 8:10:04 PM   
submittous


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/12/2004
Status: offline 		The Bill sucks, it is too little too late.

They won't cut medicare benefits, it is just budget games.

There is little cost to the government in the deal, people without insurance now will have to buy it but everyone now insured is just where they were before.

The insurance companies won the lobby battles and will be given 30 million new customers at government mandate.

The overall cost of health care will still be about 16% of GDP. Twice as much as any industrialized country and the economy will have to bear that cost making US less competitive in the world markets... The US will still end up being rated around 37th for health care results. So we will have all the systemic problems we had and lower income people will struggle with another government unfunded mandate and insurance companies will get richer making the rich richer.... Looks to me like something Bush would have done.

_____________________________

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RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 8:12:13 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		If that is really the case, then bi-partisian bullshit will be the downfall
of our country.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 8:13:23 PM   
philandering888


Posts: 1
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline 		Hi all you Yanks - I from Australia & we have "universal health coverage" - it doesn't work, long waiting lists, huge out of pocket expenses when doctors charge over the government mandated rates - it's an almighty fuck up - DON'T DO IT

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote (Update1)

Dec. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Legislation calling for the most sweeping overhaul of the U.S. health-care system in more than four decades survived a crucial test vote, allowing it to move toward final Senate passage later this week.

All 60 members of the Democratic caucus voted to curtail debate on the $871 billion measure against united opposition from Senate Republicans, who say the bill would raise taxes, hurt insurers and widen the federal deficit. Democrats scheduled the 1 a.m. vote to thwart Republican tactics aimed at preventing final passage before Christmas.

Barring surprise defections, the vote clears the way for passage by Dec. 24. The Senate must then draft a compromise with the House, which approved its own bill on Nov. 7. Both measures are designed to cover tens of millions of uninsured Americans and attempt to curb rising medical expenditures.

................

More Votes Ahead

The battle in the Senate isn’t over for Democratic leaders. They will be required to muster 60 votes for each of two other procedural votes before the Senate can agree on final passage, possibly on Christmas Eve. Democrats need only a simple majority of the 100-member Senate to pass the legislation. Today’s test vote to overcome a Republican filibuster was the most important, as the same 60-member bloc of 58 Democrats and two independents are expected to stick together to support final passage.

..............

For Nelson, Democrats crafted a compromise that would segregate government funds so they aren’t used to pay for abortions while also requiring the new exchanges to offer at least one plan that doesn’t cover the procedure. Nelson also won an agreement that additional Medicaid costs to his state would be absorbed by the federal government.

.........

No Public Option

To win over Nelson and other moderates, Reid eliminated a government-run insurance program, or public option, designed to compete with private insurers. As an alternative, the U.S. Office of Personnel Management, which oversees benefits for federal workers and members of Congress, would contract with private insurers to offer multistate plans on the exchange.

Reid raised a Medicare payroll tax increase to 0.9 percent, from 0.5 percent earlier, on individuals earning more than $200,000 or families making more than $250,000. And he dropped plans for a tax on cosmetic surgery, dubbed the Bo-tax, in favor of a 10 percent levy on indoor tanning salons.

Reid also boosted penalties for companies that don’t provide health insurance. Any company with more than 50 employees could face a penalty of $750 per worker, multiplied by the total number of full-time workers it employs, if just one obtains subsidized coverage through an exchange. That is up from a penalty of $400 in an earlier draft.

.............

House-Senate Talks

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus said House and Senate negotiators would work to come up with a compromise bill before Obama gives his State of the Union address in late January or early February. Baucus said he expects the biggest issues in the talks to be the public option and the different tax proposals each chamber used to fund the bill.

Ultimately, Baucus said, the final bill will have to more closely resemble the Senate version if it is to be enacted.

“They’re realists,” Baucus said of House members as he left the chamber after the vote. “You don’t get 60, you don’t get a bill. Passing health care is much more important than falling on their swords.”


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a6PdxxCjF4ak&pos=8

Im off to work. Will read your reactions tonight.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 8:14:33 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It all boils down to votes, MzMia, and political power. Allowing this bill to pass would hurt the Republicans who want to be back in power. Passing this bill, in any form, is considered a necessity by some Democrats. In the end, both sides will be screwed... and they arent smart enough to realize it yet.


Thank you tazzy, you should be a politcial reporter.
If both sides and all of us will be screwed, why pass anything right now?
What is the damn hurry?
Wait, and re-write the bill, and do it the right way!
We are all going to be on Medicare one day, if we live long enough.
Don't mess things up for the older folks!!!!!



Im one of those older folks!

And why now? Because if it doesnt at least begin now, the next battle will be even harder.

Health CEOs Call for $500 Billion in Cost Savings in Medicare

By Jane Norman, CQ HealthBeat Associate Editor

June 12, 2009 -- As Congress debates how to rein in cost and at the same time improve quality in the nation's health care system, top executives from nine health provider organizations Friday endorsed a set of ideas tied to coordinated care for patients that they predicted could save the Medicare system some $500 to $600 billion in 10 years

The CEOs did not specify how much each of their recommendations would save Medicare, but they said they "firmly believe" that up to 30 percent of the $2.4 trillion now spent on health care is the result of too few efforts to coordinate care and not enough attention to quality.

They also said that in the broader context of the health overhaul, they support health exchanges or new marketplaces for purchase of health insurance, reforms that end discrimination based on age, sex or health status; subsidies financed through "broadly shared responsibility" to ensure affordable coverage; and a mandate that individuals be covered by insurance.

The CEOs are Patricia A. Gabow, CEO and medical director of Denver Health; Scott Armstrong, president and CEO of Group Health Cooperative in Seattle; Nicholas Wolter, CEO of the Billings Clinic in Billings, Mont.; Anthony R. Tersigni, president and CEO of Ascension Health in St. Louis; Gary Kaplan, chairman and CEO of Virginia Mason Medical Center in Seattle; Lloyd Dean, president and CEO of Catholic Healthcare West; Kenneth C. Frazier, president for Global Human Health at Merck & Co. Inc.; Bruce Bodaken, chairman and CEO of Blue Shield of California; and Donna Katen-Bahensky, president and chief executive officer of the University of Wisconsin Hospital and Clinics.


http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Newsletters/Washington-Health-Policy-in-Review/2009/Jun/June-15-2009/Health-CEOs-Call-for-500-Billion-in-Cost-Savings-in-Medicare.aspx

This cut in Medicare is something people, including these CEO's, have been demanding for years. As far as us old folks... yup.. 80 Million in the next 10 - 15 years. If we dont fix it now, there wont be anything left to fix. Medicare is going bankrupt.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 8:15:00 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

If that is really the case, then bi-partisian bullshit will be the downfall
of our country.


Youve got that right!

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 8:20:18 PM   
submittous


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/12/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

If that is really the case, then bi-partisian bullshit will be the downfall
of our country.


Youve got that right!

What part of a total party line vote on health care is bi-partisan? As I recall no republicans voted for it in the House either.

_____________________________

"If you are lucky enough to find a way of life you love, you have to find the courage to live it." John Irving

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Senate Health-Care Measure Clears Crucial Test Vote - 12/21/2009 10:10:55 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

If that is really the case, then bi-partisian bullshit will be the downfall
of our country.


Youve got that right!

What part of a total party line vote on health care is bi-partisan? As I recall no republicans voted for it in the House either.


I took "bi-partisan bullshit" to mean that its partisan. Mia will have to clear up what she meant.

(in reply to submittous)
Profile   Post #: 20
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