RE: reaction to comments - gender bias

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osf -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 8:35:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: osf quote: No. It's really not. It's a lack of communication that, by it's absence, implies something as to the state of the relationship. If you are joking, it's not coming across. if i ask you if you have anything to say and you don't answer, you've answered in effect a lack of communication is communicating they have nothing to say, and/or they don't think your worth talking too we communicate on many different levels I don't regard that as communication in the slightest. As I said, it's a lack of communication that implies something. It could also mean I'm dead and therefore unable to communicate. he's right there check his pulse

AquaticSub -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 8:37:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 making a judgement is what we all do every day but judgementalism is something else and there is way too much of it on here sometimes IMHO i know of plenty of relationships that are unhealthy, from my POV, but its not my call, so i keep my trap shut. if someone comes here and pointedly asks 'is this healthy' then we are being invited to comment, beyond that its non of our business what floats peoples boats. although if its kids involved i do get a bit judgmental. Seems hypocritical to me. Either you are allowed to pass judgement on other people's lives or you aren't. I make an effort not to be rude about it but I'm not going to keep my mouth shut when I think an adult may be an unhealthy relationship just because they are an adult. I'll state my opinion politely and once they tell me they disagree, then I'll keep my mouth shut because it's their choice (try to anyway [;)]). But considering how many people are in unhealthy relationships because no one has bothered to say anything... No, I refuse not say anything if I think something should be said and I utterly refuse to feel bad about it. quote: i agree wholeheartedly that this thread is a bit questionable, but i still think this guy has alot going on and who knows how fragile he is or how much 'attack' he can handle. he's new here and doesnt know how brutal it can get at times [:)] .... and i think well of you sunshine - its no biggee, im not worrying a whole lot about this, its an open forum and i said what i felt. sorry for the hijack. Again, this is not a safe space. It's not designed to be. There are lots of places that are designed to be. I'm quite happy that non-safe spaces exist because while they are useful, they have their downsides as well. I strongly feel that both are needed. I trust the OP to choose for themselves what space they need to be in.

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 9:48:03 AM)
quote: However, I still find it offensive to think that someone would feign agreement with me because I happen to be woman. I don't need someone fluffing my ego with fake praise nor I do think any of the other women here do. i reman aplogetic for any offence caused. it won't help of course but it would not be done to fluff anyones ego, but rather to subvert mine. i would not go as far as to offer praise but i would i believe refrain from any dispute or complaint. in real life it woud mostly be different especially where people are highly objectionable though i do try to be meek and polite in public. quote: i need to ask Her, but for the moment She is ignoring me - which i accept i deserve. i shall ask when (if??) She allows me to. That doesn't exactly sound like a healthy relationship. Perhaps you might explain more about what you mean?

AquaticSub -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 9:54:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sissyshoefetish i reman aplogetic for any offence caused. it won't help of course but it would not be done to fluff anyones ego, but rather to subvert mine. i would not go as far as to offer praise but i would i believe refrain from any dispute or complaint. in real life it woud mostly be different especially where people are highly objectionable though i do try to be meek and polite in public. I think I understand what you mean better now. So you would not agree with something that you don't agree with, but you simply wouldn't speak at all? I still find that questionable and somewhat irksome - if I'm wrong I want people to correct me. It's the only way I'm going to learn and improve myself but it's much less offensive. Athough how is being polite meek? I expect politeness from dominants and masters after all. quote: quote: That doesn't exactly sound like a healthy relationship. Perhaps you might explain more about what you mean? The way you put it makes it sound like she is ignoring you even though you need to ask her something. Why can't you ask her and why is she ignoring you? I don't regard it as healthy for one person to be ignoring the needs of another. Particularly if you are still learning your way, I believe you need instruction and attention. Granted it's your relationship but that's my opinion. [:)]

AquaticSub -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 9:55:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf he's right there check his pulse Whose pulse?

osf -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 10:05:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: osf he's right there check his pulse Whose pulse? the uncommunicative one

AquaticSub -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 11:46:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf the uncommunicative one Usually if someone is noncommunicating to the point of being unable to ask them a question in regards to needs, they aren't physically there to have a pulse taken. At least, that has been my experience. Otherwise I can just tackle them... [:D]

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 4:48:47 PM)
quote: Is E. W. now your Dom? Is HE the one you are trying to please?. no that is not the case. quote: Look, man, if you are going to follow what EVERY woman and EVERY dom says for your to do, you will go crazy. You seem to be in a bit of sub frenzy. (use the search button if you don't know what that term means). with respect i do not think i said i was going to follow orders form everyone, just that my reaction might be affected by gender. As for being in a sub frenzy.. maybe...it does take me that way sometimes... is that a crime? The term is fairly self explanatory, but following your instruction {he he he) i looked it up for clarity. I recognise aspects of the state as pertaining to me at times yes. quote: Your post is irritating - the whole fricking thread is irritating - because you are acting like a jerk. You are acting like a "doormat" ... you know... like you have no mind of your own. To me that makes YOU more troll like than osf. You want to be a useless, unthinking, pitiful shell, fine. But don't say it's because you are submissive. That's not submissive. (A fairly common mistake for new folks or people in sub frenzy). Wake up. sunshine Ah.. nicely harsh :-) but actually quite useful as it answers my question. i had thought that i reacted differently on the basis of gender. i find however that unnecessarily controntational behaviour praises a similar level of contempt from me regardless of who it is from. i have semi-concluded that i would acceot and defer to such things only from someone who i perceive in some way or potential as a superior and that is not as some have been offended by, simply a matter of gender. i am not sure if your post is intended to be funny, if it is clever, or if your comments are genuine but yes i am acting like a doormat, and that doesnlt make me in any way troll like . i do wish to be useless & pitiful but not unthinking and i do say that this is related to me being submissive. i agree that the two are not the same abut there is a causal relationship in part because the two will feed off each other.; my desire to be seen as useless makes me more compliant and my compliance validates my desire to be seen as useless. Thank you for your post. it helped.

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 4:54:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: sissyshoefetish Oh.. now that is simply very wise! Thanks. I've noticed you are agreeing with everyone completely. I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that this was just to scratch an idea of yours to be told what to do. Now i feel a teeny bit hurt as my reponse to you was genuine and you seem to think i was just playing. Still thats life (real or fantasy). i am not agreeing with everyone you may note, but i admit that this topic was created to explore an idea though not in order to get told what to do. My question was genuine. The reponses have helped form an answer.

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 5:11:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 hm. whilst its more than possible that the OP is exercising some level of kink simply through being humiliated - something s/he mentions enjoying on her profile - and therefore manipulative - im not sure that lambasting her for being who she is and taking a dig at her mistress has any merit to it at all either. in the end he is a guy trying to get to grips with being a woman - and lets face it there are plenty of men who freely admit they dont understand women and they never will add in submission and i see someone who is really trying to handle a whole lot of stuff. i might be wrong, often am i confess to seeking humiliation and yes to enjoying something about posting the topic, but i was not being manipulative; i think that would be naive and i couldn't hope to get away with it. While i am grateful for your supportive post i will say that in this case, the more critical reponses have helped me answer my question. Left as it was i was assuming i would defer here to female opinion in all cases. Now that seems daft as i have found i do not just accept "lambasting" from any source - attitude and consequently perceived peronality seem to be the real govering factors, not gender. i am happy that is so. Thank you for looking at my profile - perhaps that needs some work. i will comment that i am not trying to get to grips with trying to be a woman - but i am indeed trying to handle a whole lot of stuff as you put it, and i thank you for your sympathetic response.

Drifa -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 5:21:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 Do you think the place we live has influence on how we respond here on genders? No. I think what matters is acculturation, which has to do with all the places you have ever lived, all the TV and movies you have watched, all the many messages you get from peers, schools, and media. Everyone gets a lot of prescriptive messages mixed in with all of these types of communication - we all absorb little "morality plays" about what is "acceptable" and what is "unacceptable". In Western culture, from pretty much the moment of birth, we are shaped towards certain stereotypes of gendered behavior. (TONS of studies on this, for example here).

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 5:28:12 PM)
quote: 1. I don't think you should work on it, but I wouldn't have any problem with you working on it. I really don't see how it's different from any other bias based on attraction. Some guys find giggling and hair twirling to be endearing in a woman, that doesn't mean they should "work on" getting the same reaction when they see another guy do it. If you find an outspoken woman attractive and feel a natural response to it I don't see why you need to "fix" yourself to see guys the same way. Your natural response to things, especially things that you relate to attraction, isn't going to be logical. 2. Only if you want to be more passive. I enjoyed your analysis of osf, and I think that the only person who can make the decision to be more passive is you. Or possibly, if you're in a D/s dynamic and behaviour mod is part of that dynamic, your Domme. 3. You shouldn't apologize if you're not genuinely sorry for what you did. May i say that i have admiration for your response (not in some kinky way either i should add). All attraction is by definition biased and introduces bias inappropriately at times. And despite our attempts to be unbiased surely we all to accept things differently from people depending on who they are or who we perceive them to be. Do i want to be more passive? i think the answer is yes, but not specifically due to my fetishes, more to respond to them ( i could try to explain that further but don't want to write and essay here). You are right in saying as others did that i shouldn't apologise if i don''t feel remorse. What i feel is that i am here presenting myself as submissive (though that is not the whole story) and i feel that this is at odds with my reaction to posts by osf. I think my feeling is not quite valid and i need to use my head on that one. i think also that those posts were quite irksome to me and i am best off simply not rising to the bait. And if i consider that to be useful as an exercise in meekness then it harms noone. i am not sorry for what i posted. i am sorry i let myself get sidetracked by that topic.

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 5:29:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: numuncular quote: ORIGINAL: osf regardless of what anyone thinks of me, i treat women of any sexual orientation with more equality than those that rush in to protect the poor defenseless dears which was the subject of one of my threads being an arse to everyone isn't really equality. Nice! Very well put.

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 5:37:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Valyraen I'm of two minds about that comment. Strictly functioning by the definition of the term equality (taken from dictionary.reference.com) as "correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability", being an arse to every is equality, because you're not discriminating on the basis of any factor. I'm reminded of the old, slightly off-color joke that hating everyone equally isn't being prejudiced - it's not pleasant, but it's true. Begging to differ, while acting the same to everyone is treating them equally, equality does not simply mean that, it means providing equality rather than handing out equal measures. So being an arse to everyone does not recognise their position in the equation and the degree of "being an arse" they need to evoke the same level of reaction. And hating everyone equally is prejudiced. all hate is prejudicial and the fact that you apportion the same degree of discrimination to all does not mean they are getting equal treatment, but that they are all getting unfair treatment.

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 5:43:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 Do you think the place we live has influence on how we respond here on genders? Yes actually it may. If you live in a place where gender discrimination is common then the chances of your attitude being affected by that is greater and so on average you might argue that people from a certain place (meaning a certain cultural aspect) will in general respond differently to a question on gender. sorry to take your frivolous post too seriously.

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 5:55:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I'm not a submissive, but I want to answer your question because it gives Me a chance to explain My thoughts on the subject. I'll be very honest with you. I don't have one inkling of desire to have what people think regarding what I say around here to be focused on what's between My legs. If anyone thinks anything of Me, for better or for worse, I want it to be on My own merit. Not because of what gender that I am or I'm not. If anyone out there thinks I'm a good top, I want that to be because of the skills I've acquired over the years. If I'm a good Dominant, that should be because of the way I have structured the dynamics in My life. I don't want 'special credit' just because I have tits. Do I particularly get that? No. I've said so on these boards plenty of times on how imbalanced things can be in the kinky world based on gender. I think I should be held to the same standard as any other male Dominant out there. If I can't live up to that, it's My own fault. At the same time, I understand your position, OP. There are definitely those out there who feel their submission more strongly when dealing with one gender rather than another. These yearnings aren't exactly 'wrong' but you may want to do some inner searching as to why something said by a female impacts you in a different way than a male. I would say, consider both, why you feel the way you do in regards to gender, and the worthiness of the comments that made you react the way you did. Then, and only then, will you know if an apology is warranted or not. [/color] Thanks for your reply. i have now changed my position on this topic - essentially by coming to a realisation after considering posts including yours. One thing is find "odd" is the frequent reference to the "what is between my legs" as the definition of gender. i get the meaning but i find it strange that the very thing that is often the focus of sexual discrimination (by this i mean women being judged and afforded different treatment by their breasts, legs etc ) is being used by women to define themselves as female. Being female ( and indeed male) is not really about those things at all is it? i for one am sure it is not. Our physical traits do of course affect how we feel about ourselves but surely gender is deeper than this? It is a mix of mental, physiological and even cultural elements. i am probably being pedantic - it can be one of my failings..

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 6:02:37 PM)
quote: Should you act respectful to those who you contact with, yes, Should you act like a wimp, No. indeed i should be respectful. Why shouldnlt i act like a wimp though? Not that i am trying to - but is it really so wrong? quote: If you were disrespectful in your comments, then yes, If you simply disagreed with his statements and were respectful in doing so, then No Forgive me father for i have sinned. i was disrespectful in thought and perhaps in word though i hope is was not rude. But taking the advice of others, i confess also that i am not sorry for my comments, only for allowing myself to be drawn in. and anyway issuing an apology would be more about seeking rather pathetic thrill than being respectful.

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 6:28:03 PM)
quote: Given how enthusically the OP is agreeing with everyone, I believe I'm allowed my opinion ... Yes indeed you are allowed your opinion and i support that idea even though i did find your comments a little sharp. (they dd not press my buttons btw) quote: ..that this may be an attempt to get their kink scratched. It also may not be. . it isn't , not in any real sense. Was there a thrill in posting - a little but only because of my mood at the time. The question was genuine, the answers have been usual and/or helpful. Yes indeed you are allowed your opinion and i support that idea even though i did find your comments a little sharp. (they dd not press my buttons btw)

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 7:06:04 PM)
quote: i havent read all of his posts on here, but ive got the gist. i think theres a double edge to all of this. on one hand he wants and loves to be humiliated by women because he 'thinks' we're wonderful (and who can argue with that (joking)), [:)] - but also in there is his dressing up as a woman and humiliating himself in that way with big girls knickers, so there is also a degree of 'reducing' himself to the female condition of being, as some men see it, the 'weaker sex'. This is a seperate issue but i feel i need to explain myself to prevent a misunderstanding. There is a double edge here yes - one the one hand i do seek to be humiliated by women - because .. (well that is the complicated bit). On the other hand there is the dressing up. Now it is a long time since i truly dressed fully as a female and that was nothing to do with my desire for humiliation. For various reasons i just can't carry that off anymore. The dressing in big knickers and other female attire these days is for the purpose of appearing daft - to attract ridicule and certainly not to reduce myself "to the female condition of being, as some men see it, the 'weaker sex'." The choice of clothes is not for the purpose of emulating feminine aspects but to emphasise the ill fitting and poorly chosen forms of dress and so to be ridiculed for that. i admit it is a purpose often misunderstood and i sometimes get women trying to "Help" me because they think my choices are from poor style rather than being deliberate. There is also an element here of taking on "unsexy" forms of dress - the number of people who find big knickers sexy is fairly low, however this does not extend to wearing the kind of clothes that women wear to avoid being seen as sex objects as that would be mockery. Some of my dressing is still more feminine but this is not done to attract ridicule or to take on aspects of a "weaker sex". This is a mix of feebly revisiting my past and more successful dressing, for posing and for presenting a more attractive aspect. Its complex but in no case is it seeing women as either weaker or lesser. It is about me, not about women, and though some may see the uses of female attire as necessarily including a judgement on women, i would strongly disagree and say that my dressing does this no more or less than it might when women wear such outfits. i make this point at length because i find the idea of womenas a weaker sex offensive and don't wish to be thought of as promoting it. Thanks for reading this if you did.

sissyshoefetish -> RE: reaction to comments - gender bias (12/23/2009 7:20:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss Lally, You know I think really well of you. But this time I'm calling bullshit. If I'm being harsh (I seem to be doing that these days), too bad. But sometimes people need a wake up call. Not once did anyone say ANYTHING hurtful to the OP. NOT ONCE. We have all talked about behavior. And the behavior sucks. We have made an assessment AT THE OP'S REQUEST and responded to it. You know as well as I do that being a doormat is not cool. Apologizing when no real apology is necessary weakens true apologies. Wondering if Mistress will talk to me is not healthy. (whether on her part or the op's). Finally, wanting humilitiation and getting it from the board is subjecting us to kink without our permission. Don't know if THAT is happening. But Aqua mentioned it in a fair manner. It is a possibility. I too have had the sweetness / kindness factor in the past that went to the nth degree. Not anymore. Say what you mean, mean what you say, don't say it mean. Being overly sweet will not help the op, and it sure won't make me happy. and the world revolves around me. I can send you the memo wink sunshine With respect, this seems unduly aggressive. You were not outside any TOS but your comments were noticeably spiky and you have said yourself that you are being harsh more these days. i have mentioned that the attitude in your post was helpful to me in negating the idea that i might be showing gender bias, so thanks for that, but " If I'm being harsh .... too bad" and "And the behavior sucks." are not really in accord with the respectfulness most contributors advise. i have explained elsewhere about how i am not indulging a kink in this thread so i hope that myth dissipates, but i understand the suspicion of it. if that were the case then your posts would definitely be feeding the kink. i am also not too sure about this "And the behavior sucks." aspect. if i am right about it being directed at me, in what way has my behaviour been so bad as to warrant that? And why do you feel so strongly that "Wondering if Mistress will talk to me is not healthy." And why do you feel the need to point this out? i would ask that you might respond but with less aggression please.

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